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WWII Online: Battleground Europe

World War II Online 

General Discussion  » My Opinion: Why WWIIOL is dead.

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511 posts found
  david06

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 183

1/09/13 8:41:23 PM#101


Originally posted by argel
<snip>
 
I'm aware of the complaints about things from 2004/2005 but I didn't even begin playing the game until 2008. They've made many more recent blunders, ones which could've been easily avoided. Some of the things that they are now doing were suggested not too long ago, like finding some way to lower the subscription price, having some sort of free-to-play option, a larger emphasis and less hostility to social gaming(squads and guilds). We were all systematically told to fuck off, that we didn't know anything about business, that the game had survived this long etc.


Remember when they raised the subscription price to $17.99/month? They and their sycophants on the forums said that it  didn't matter because you were poor if you couldn't afford it, and that the money would fund development of the game(lol). A lot of us said that it was disastrous, even as we relayed our experiences with trial players(who we were speaking with on teamspeak) about what the price did DOC and others told us that it wasn't open to discussion. They're charging an ultra-premium rate for a dated and bug-ridden game yet to hear them talk it's one or two fools on the in-game side chat, or the criticism on their closed forum that's keeping subscribers away.


Up until earlier last year the mantra was "Go away if you don't like this game, if you hate it so much why are you still here?" Then of course it suddenly changed, the begging began and now they can't get people to play their game for free.


Originally posted by Hodo
I also remember him telling me that I dont know a thing about tanks or how they work yet I served as a M1 platoon leader and was the TC of a M1A1 Abrams. I had sent him testing documentation on how HEAT rounds worked what the affects were, and how they would affect the crew inside an enclosed environment.

I remember another person who worked at Aberdene Proving Grounds sent him the SAME information, all declassified WWII test information. He told us, his sources were more reliable and that he knew what he was doing and we didnt know what we were talking about. Yet when asked to site his sources he listed a bunch of poorly written books from the 1960s.


Don't feel bad, I was an EOD technician while in the Army and DOC tried to lecture me on explosive effects. If I still had access to my old forum account I'd post the private message where he tried to set me straight on the game's HE shells and the way they penetrate armor. Long story short his game was right and I didn't know what I was talking about.


No worries though, it appears that XOOM is continuing the CRS tradition of extremely poor customer relations. Longtime players are trying to help them out but they keep getting sabotaged by the company's bad business decisions and attitude.


In case the pictures don't display properly, below is a player who tried to get his friends(other former players) back in the game by taking advantage of the free offer, only to find that CRS changed it from free to $4.99 without warning. When he complains and says that this will make very difficult to get his friends back, XOOM basically tells him to deal with it. The words "free loaders" and "baggage" are mentioned.



See the "If they can't afford it, we don't want them anyway" notion again? That may work with a fashion brand or luxury automobile line, things which can embrace exclusivity but not so much for a subscription service with a lot of competition.

  argel

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 34

1/10/13 2:54:37 AM#102

That's really bad. What on earth is he playing at with that attitude? I'm an old time player but because I'm studying a Masters+PHD in history I'm not in a position to devote much time to any game right now. Maybe I'd have got a cheap sub and kept it running if it wasn't £12-13 a month which I can't justify right now.

That kind of rhetoric stinks and there's no way I'd buy a sub if that's the attitude towards potential returning players.

 

 

As for the other stuff - I agree some things were mishandled, but WWIIOL is one of the few places I've seen where people take that stuff really personally. The level of access is huge in terms of dicourse between devs and players, and at one point that was a good thing. When things started going wrong though, it became a huge problem because all of a sudden EVERYONE knew best. We've all been guilty of a 'What you need to change is this and then everyone will love this game!' post or two in the past, usually out of frustration. In reality it's their game and as long as the actual play isn't too bad, I don't have a problem with inaccuracies or minor niggles.

MSP's definitely had an effect on the game I agree. The way they have worked is just... well they don't work at all really. It's like every town is surrounded, but CRS know this and I think they want to change it (at least that's what Doc inferred in the summer) but lack the resources to finish 1.35.

In the end I don't blame people for not wanting to go back or losing patience with the game and it's devs - in particular when you read something like Xoom's posts there - but I don't discourage people from playing what is still a good game in many respects. Flight sim-wise it's right up there, similarly tanking is a great experience. Even inf. play is good out of town.

  rendus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 332

1/10/13 9:55:57 AM#103
That freeloaders are baggage quote should be stickyed at the top of this forum.  And mentioned whenever someone brings up the f2p offer anywhere on the internet. 
  argel

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/05
Posts: 34

1/10/13 2:51:11 PM#104

What exactly would that achieve though Rendus? Xoom embarrassed himself, the company and game don't deserve to die because he's been an idiot there.

 

Cue 'no they deserve to die for...' post.

 

My point is, if you don't play anymore, why do you care if others want to try F2P or not?

  Woopin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/07
Posts: 1028

1/10/13 2:57:09 PM#105
Originally posted by david06

 


Originally posted by argel

 
I'm aware of the complaints about things from 2004/2005 but I didn't even begin playing the game until 2008. They've made many more recent blunders, ones which could've been easily avoided. Some of the things that they are now doing were suggested not too long ago, like finding some way to lower the subscription price, having some sort of free-to-play option, a larger emphasis and less hostility to social gaming(squads and guilds). We were all systematically told to fuck off, that we didn't know anything about business, that the game had survived this long etc.

 


Remember when they raised the subscription price to $17.99/month? They and their sycophants on the forums said that it  didn't matter because you were poor if you couldn't afford it, and that the money would fund development of the game(lol). A lot of us said that it was disastrous, even as we relayed our experiences with trial players(who we were speaking with on teamspeak) about what the price did DOC and others told us that it wasn't open to discussion. They're charging an ultra-premium rate for a dated and bug-ridden game yet to hear them talk it's one or two fools on the in-game side chat, or the criticism on their closed forum that's keeping subscribers away.


Up until earlier last year the mantra was "Go away if you don't like this game, if you hate it so much why are you still here?" Then of course it suddenly changed, the begging began and now they can't get people to play their game for free.

 


Originally posted by Hodo
I also remember him telling me that I dont know a thing about tanks or how they work yet I served as a M1 platoon leader and was the TC of a M1A1 Abrams. I had sent him testing documentation on how HEAT rounds worked what the affects were, and how they would affect the crew inside an enclosed environment.

 

I remember another person who worked at Aberdene Proving Grounds sent him the SAME information, all declassified WWII test information. He told us, his sources were more reliable and that he knew what he was doing and we didnt know what we were talking about. Yet when asked to site his sources he listed a bunch of poorly written books from the 1960s.


 

Don't feel bad, I was an EOD technician while in the Army and DOC tried to lecture me on explosive effects. If I still had access to my old forum account I'd post the private message where he tried to set me straight on the game's HE shells and the way they penetrate armor. Long story short his game was right and I didn't know what I was talking about.


No worries though, it appears that XOOM is continuing the CRS tradition of extremely poor customer relations. Longtime players are trying to help them out but they keep getting sabotaged by the company's bad business decisions and attitude.


In case the pictures don't display properly, below is a player who tried to get his friends(other former players) back in the game by taking advantage of the free offer, only to find that CRS changed it from free to $4.99 without warning. When he complains and says that this will make very difficult to get his friends back, XOOM basically tells him to deal with it. The words "free loaders" and "baggage" are mentioned.



See the "If they can't afford it, we don't want them anyway" notion again? That may work with a fashion brand or luxury automobile line, things which can embrace exclusivity but not so much for a subscription service with a lot of competition.

Wow that is quite bad the only reason I will not sub is because of the low population. 

 

If they had a bunch of baggage to kill then they would have had an extra sub from me and probably many others. It is a pretty low attitude to have towards a game with such low numbers.

  depot12

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 169

1/10/13 3:01:59 PM#106

I dont see where he said for people to not play.    CRS deserves disclosure to the public in thier deceptive practices and attitudes towards players.   F2P people just may want to know what CRS thinks of them.

  rendus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 332

1/10/13 3:58:25 PM#107
Originally posted by argel

What exactly would that achieve though Rendus? Xoom embarrassed himself, the company and game don't deserve to die because he's been an idiot there.

 

Cue 'no they deserve to die for...' post.

 

My point is, if you don't play anymore, why do you care if others want to try F2P or not?

There should be some kind of fallout for that statement.  Some kind of consequence.  They have enough problems as it is without alienating their playerbase, free or paying.  Well, that's what happens when you hire a sandwich artist as your Chief Marketing Officer.

To your point:

I've played over the summer and fall.  Just not  in the last couple of months.  Not since the population dropped to the point it's no longer an MMO.  I have no problem with folks trying the F2P, in fact I recommended it to Torgrim in his "how is ww2online these days",  thread.

  axishatr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 189

 
OP  1/11/13 9:00:13 AM#108
Originally posted by david06

 


Originally posted by argel

 
I'm aware of the complaints about things from 2004/2005 but I didn't even begin playing the game until 2008. They've made many more recent blunders, ones which could've been easily avoided. Some of the things that they are now doing were suggested not too long ago, like finding some way to lower the subscription price, having some sort of free-to-play option, a larger emphasis and less hostility to social gaming(squads and guilds). We were all systematically told to fuck off, that we didn't know anything about business, that the game had survived this long etc.

 


Remember when they raised the subscription price to $17.99/month? They and their sycophants on the forums said that it  didn't matter because you were poor if you couldn't afford it, and that the money would fund development of the game(lol). A lot of us said that it was disastrous, even as we relayed our experiences with trial players(who we were speaking with on teamspeak) about what the price did DOC and others told us that it wasn't open to discussion. They're charging an ultra-premium rate for a dated and bug-ridden game yet to hear them talk it's one or two fools on the in-game side chat, or the criticism on their closed forum that's keeping subscribers away.


Up until earlier last year the mantra was "Go away if you don't like this game, if you hate it so much why are you still here?" Then of course it suddenly changed, the begging began and now they can't get people to play their game for free.

 


Originally posted by Hodo
I also remember him telling me that I dont know a thing about tanks or how they work yet I served as a M1 platoon leader and was the TC of a M1A1 Abrams. I had sent him testing documentation on how HEAT rounds worked what the affects were, and how they would affect the crew inside an enclosed environment.

 

I remember another person who worked at Aberdene Proving Grounds sent him the SAME information, all declassified WWII test information. He told us, his sources were more reliable and that he knew what he was doing and we didnt know what we were talking about. Yet when asked to site his sources he listed a bunch of poorly written books from the 1960s.


 

Don't feel bad, I was an EOD technician while in the Army and DOC tried to lecture me on explosive effects. If I still had access to my old forum account I'd post the private message where he tried to set me straight on the game's HE shells and the way they penetrate armor. Long story short his game was right and I didn't know what I was talking about.


No worries though, it appears that XOOM is continuing the CRS tradition of extremely poor customer relations. Longtime players are trying to help them out but they keep getting sabotaged by the company's bad business decisions and attitude.


In case the pictures don't display properly, below is a player who tried to get his friends(other former players) back in the game by taking advantage of the free offer, only to find that CRS changed it from free to $4.99 without warning. When he complains and says that this will make very difficult to get his friends back, XOOM basically tells him to deal with it. The words "free loaders" and "baggage" are mentioned.



See the "If they can't afford it, we don't want them anyway" notion again? That may work with a fashion brand or luxury automobile line, things which can embrace exclusivity but not so much for a subscription service with a lot of competition.

 

This supports all that has ever been posted about the companys ways with players and how they treat them....and is directly proportional to the game that we use to love being where it is today.

 

YOU DON'T GIVE THE REINS OF THE COMPANY PR DEPARTMENT TO PLAYERS (ONES THAT WERE NOT GOOD PLAYERS TO BEGIN WITH) AND EXPECT TO SUCCEED.  YOU DO NOT LET GO MOST OF YOUR PAID EMPLOYEES BECAUSE YOU CANNOT STAY IN THE BLACK AND GIVE THE ROLES TO RANDOM "SUCCESSFUL GAMING AVATARS" TO RUN YOUR COMPANY AND EXPECT TO REMAIN VALID.  PULL THE PLUG.  YOU JUST CONTINUE TO PIZZ PEOPLE OFF AND THEY WILL GO OUT TO WHATEVER PLACE THEY CAN TO TELL OTHER GAMERS WHAT IS HAPPENING.  YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN LESS TRIGGER HAPPY AND BEEN GROWN UPS AND KEPT YOU PAYING PLAYERS IN GAME INSTEAD OF PIZZING THEM OFF AND HAVING THEM GO OFF ON OTHER FORUMS.  YOU HARVEST WHAT YOU PLANT AND YOU'VE PLANTED SOME VERY STRONG HATE.

JFC!

  axishatr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 189

 
OP  1/11/13 9:08:07 AM#109

An article was written several years ago by a game reveiwer stating that the only thing keeping wwiiol alive was its drone playerbase.  That is, people with either deep pockets or the inability to say no to giving money to their addiction.

 

It is another searchable read that got some pretty harsh reactions from crs at the time, but generally reflects where we are today.  Even though the article is a little dated the pricing stays the same unless you are a return customer ( you have to stay subbed to continue to get that discount and if you interrupt it you lose it) and the f2p has changed a little. OH, and there is that $30/month sub price to donate to keep the game you love alive...

 

Here is the text of it and a link to the full page for author credits:

 

http://mmofallout.com/2011/02/10/mindless-but-wealthy-drones-battleground-europe-edition/

 

For those of you who haven’t heard of Battleground Europe, it is widely regarded as the first MMOFPS in history, released in 2001 and is still running to this day. As someone who played Battleground Europe back when it was still just WWII Online, I have to say the quality of the title was unmatched, both in the implementation and the sheer force that the allies and axis threw upon one another in massive fields, towns, and cities, experiencing everything from raids to enormous bombing runs.

And as any MMO goes, Battleground Europe peaked, and began its dip into the game that exists today: A game that is even more barren and lifeless than its successor in the field, Planetside. I guess you could say the main difference between Planetside and Battleground Europe at the moment is that Planetside at least was successful enough to spawn a sequel.

But this article isn’t about making fun of Cornered Rat Software, or their near-comatose game. Unbeknownst to me, and 99% of the gaming community, the guys at CRS have been upping the funding lately, with the Builder’s Program (private investment) and through the increase in the base subscription price to $17.99 a month. Sure you can subscribe for three months and bring that price down, but we’re talking about the base entrance price for a monthly fee.

There is nothing to be worried about, like the game tanking, however. If the posts on the related threads are anything to go off of, Cornered Rats has quite a number of players willing to pay for subscriptions, often on multiple accounts, as a “donation,” despite not even playing the game. That must be nice for the folks at CRS, having people who expect literally nothing out of you, and are willing to pay you for just that. I also witnessed posters claiming that they hated the change in subscription, but would continue paying the price just to stop any snowballing of people leaving.

Whether or not World War II Online is a good shooter is irrelevant to the fact that not only will free trial players be walking into a dearth of population, but then they’ll be enticed with a cost higher than any triple-a MMO on the market. And the drones on the Battleground Europe forums can throw inflation and costs of development as much as they want. $15 is less funding than $17.99, but $0 and a disgruntled customer who isn’t coming back is far, far worse.

If you’re going to ask for higher prices, you’d better have something to offer that meets that increase. Games far more successful and independent companies far smaller than Cornered Rats have gone more years without raising their subscription price, or putting payment plans into effect with termination fees. So please, don’t try to play this off as a special case. It isn’t, and you aren’t.

  axishatr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 189

 
OP  1/11/13 9:34:44 AM#110

The review was from 2011.  Thats because no one else is interested in this anymore for whatever the collected reasons are.

 

Go check it out.  See the world.  See the pricing.  Pay if you want to.  See for yourself.

  Rigamortis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/05
Posts: 220

1/11/13 9:49:07 AM#111
I am glad this thread still has legs and shows what the "real" story is behind the game.  Unfortunately my thread got locked and was issued a warning.....first one since 2005 because XOOM undoubtedly complained to the website and since he is paying then $3000 this month for front page advertising.....more money he swindled out of poor uninformed players.

  depot12

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 169

1/11/13 9:56:38 AM#112
What advertising? I've never seen a BE ad on here.  They probably needed that to keep the lights on.
  Rigamortis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/05
Posts: 220

1/11/13 10:03:13 AM#113
Originally posted by depot12
What advertising? I've never seen a BE ad on here.  They probably needed that to keep the lights on.

I would cut and paste the thread in "The Barracks" if i could...but im baned until the 17th lol.  Xoom struck a "Sweet" deal in his words to get a BOX of advertising on the main page for 1 month for $3000.  He is usuing a different company then kickstarter to raise the funds because that promotion failed miserably.  Unfortnately the name of this other website similar to kickstarter escapes me at the moment.

  Squigibo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/01/09
Posts: 13

1/11/13 1:31:41 PM#114

Wall of text.  

As a returning player to the game, I couldn't care less about what decisions the developers made in the past.  It sounds like you have a personal beef with the developers.  The game is NOT dead.  I left because I saw shiny little toys to play with for a while, (Call of Duty, etc....) but nothing offered the scale of WW2 Online.  

I'm NOT a fanboy, I'm just a normal player.  I agree that before, the game seemed rather "stoic" and rigid.  High learning curve. But that has changed.  You can get into battle real fast.  Click Click Boom.... that fast.  Or if you want to kick back you can do that too.

The community is not filled with a bunch of snot nosed kids and their "I did your Mom" jokes, that got stale 2 minutes after they started.  

If someone is looking for Call of Duty, MW3, Battlefield 3... you're not going to find it.  But if you're ready to graduate to a "smart change of pace... then this could be it.

Now with a generous Free to Play, option, there's no reason not to try it.  I'm hooked on it.

It's like Minecraft...once you get past the rather simple graphics, the gameplay is what keeps you coming back.

  Silky303

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/10
Posts: 137

1/11/13 1:33:40 PM#115
Give it a rest Rigamortis. One man on a trolling mission doesn't make interesting reading. It's not very becoming, especially given your own skill at controls of one of the game's RAF Havocs; it's sad to see

SWG > Aces High > WWIIOL

  axishatr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 189

 
OP  1/11/13 1:40:41 PM#116

Take note:   The forum whining of bar and xoom has brought out the wwiiol drones......

 

Log in...see it like I told you.  See what happens.

  axishatr

Novice Member

Joined: 11/03/08
Posts: 189

 
OP  1/11/13 1:49:50 PM#117

Mostly all returning players that got offered lessened rates and are wwiiol crackheads from the "good days".  Still no new players in great numbers supporting this game.  Or as xoom said, excess baggage f2p accounts.

 

  Hodo

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/08
Posts: 559

1/11/13 1:57:16 PM#118
Originally posted by axishatr

Mostly all returning players that got offered lessened rates and are wwiiol crackheads from the "good days".  Still no new players in great numbers supporting this game.  Or as xoom said, excess baggage f2p accounts.

 

I am the worst excess baggage,  I am a perma-banned player from the game who logs in and laughs at the state of the game. 

 

If only DOC and Gopher had listened to the list that the players put out oh 7 years ago.

So much crap, so little quality.

  rendus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/08
Posts: 332

1/11/13 1:58:02 PM#119
Originally posted by axishatr

Take note:   The forum whining of bar and xoom has brought out the wwiiol drones......

 

Log in...see it like I told you.  See what happens.

Not that again.  Lame.  Like there are any subs to be gained on this forum!

  pittpete

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/10
Posts: 243

1/11/13 2:00:02 PM#120

You have been really hurt Axishatr.

Who are you?

Some of still like to play the game and could care less about the developers.

If they all spontaneously combusted, all I would care about is who will keep the game going.

If the game goes under like you hope it does what is there to replace it in that genre?

Please don't tell me Heroes and Generals.

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