Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Quirhid

Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

 Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.

Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.

1. EQ had forced dependency.
2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

Group or crawl

• EQ
• DAoC

Solo and Group content

• Furcadia
• Tibia
• Kesmia
• Graal
• Ultima Online
• Asheron's Call
• There
• Planet Entropia
• Runescape
• EVE Online
• Second Life
• Puzzle Pirates
• Neocron
• Anarchy Online

Originally posted by bigsmiff
I miss meaningful crafting.

Yep.

I miss SWG too.

Hoping FF14 picks up the ball on that one.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Quirhid

Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

 Reply to Response: I never played these games, but I was 11 when they came out, so therefore an expert on everything.

1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.

Yes, the genre was really hindered as it exploded 1000 fold in popularity with the addition of group and raid-centric games.

 

1. EQ had forced dependency.
2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

Group or crawl

• EQ
• DAoC

 

Solo and Group content

 

• Furcadia
• Tibia
• Kesmia
• Graal
• Ultima Online
• Asheron's Call
• There
• Planet Entropia
• Runescape
• EVE Online
• Second Life
• Puzzle Pirates
• Neocron
• Anarchy Online

 

The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.

 

 

 

 

Um...you could totally solo in EQ. It didn't FORCE you to group. It's just that grouping was more efficient to most. Sure, I grouped a lot..because I made tons of long time friends in the game and enjoyed their company and chit chatting while medding up.

But I soloed quite a bit as well, and it was totally possible to do so. You just had to have patience...and no matter how anyone else wants to twist it...skill to solo. You had to pay close attention to mob pathing, the timing on their pathing, how many would come during a pull etc. It was the difference between splitting mobs and having success and possibly get some random surprise drop, or dying and having to do a corpse run. And it was fun.

Being able to blow through countless mobs in seconds while taking little damage and with little danger to you  isn't what I call fun. To me, THAT is monotony.

Originally posted by free2play

Originally posted by bigsmiff
I miss meaningful crafting.

Yep.

I miss SWG too.

Hoping FF14 picks up the ball on that one.

If it does, I'll be playing it.

Originally posted by WellzyC

 

awww yes, the golden age of mmos. What a time for gaming.

 

Recently me and my closest buddies have put gaming aside amidst the stagnant state of mmos, but that sort of opened the door for conversations leading down memory lane; Camping the mile gates in Emain, Hunting the Obby plains in Dereth, Working on our epics in EQ, the list goes on.

 

We talked about the fun times we had, what characters were dearest to us and the guilds we enjoyed most. But the conversation evolved into What do you miss most about mmos?

 

We came up with some good ones, but I would like to hear some that maybe we didn’t think of, because I love talking about the mmo glory days!

 

Ones we came up with-

Needing to form a group:  I really miss this.. In almost every game I played pre 2006 I would max out my friend’s list with healers, tanks, good rogues, good casters. And I also had a notebook with names of people on it and why I liked to group with them. You would Schmooz up on people who had connections and try to make a name for yourself so you got the good groups. Now it’s just lobbies and queing up... blah.

 

Buffing:  Man did I love to buff, I would sit in Drum Ligen on my druid and just buff the NPC guards for fun! But even on the other side of it, being buffed was great! It mattered! Being buffed turned you into a machine, taking on reds like they were nothing; it was a noticeable and sizable difference between being buffed and not being buffed. This in turn made you seek out buffing classes and added to that crucial social element. Now a days it’s just a group clicky, and you don’t even notice if it’s on you or not.

 

Relying on others:  In the glory days, you didn’t do anything unless you have someone with you, hell,.. In Daoc you could barley get around unless you had a bard with you. You could barley exp, getting around was hard, crafting required funding, dungeons were not available unless you helped take keeps. Some people would read what I just typed and say F*ck that... not me. I play mmos to rely on others, and for others to rely on me, that's what creates a social game.  Everything now is instanced and solo'able, you can do anything and everything with out even having to say a word to anyone, thats not an MMO to me.

 

Meaningful PVP:  UO and AC pvp was awesome, pvp mattered and it was scary. But that feeling carried over not just in full loot pvp, but pvp like daoc. When I was in Emain and saw a Unicorn Knight, or a Thundarer i would shit my self. Dying meant more than just having to trek all the way back to Emain, your death and who killed you was splattered all over the zone, embarassing!   Now it’s just pvp farming, if you see 30 of them and 1 of you, you just run in and fight anyway. Because death is meaningless and victory is meaningless..

 

 

    That’s all I can remember right now, anyone else have anything they miss about the MMO Glory days?

There are some great glory day posts on this thread.  +1

It is sad to see how few newer MMO players can contemplate how much more rewarding a challenging MMO is.

All most of us are asking for is one modern AAA game that has these elements that isn't some micro-transaction themepark.   Honestly, even when I had more time to play, I had no problem with someone being uber powerful compared to me:  it is what made some players mythical and players to look up to.  This "everyone is equal welcome to max level in 1 month even if you have down's syndrome" stuff is super annoying. 

I mean, ugh, how hard could it be just to hang out a few sandbox carrots in a challenging MMO.  And yes we love you EVE, but I really would like a fantasy fix. 

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
The first generation of something is rarely the best. 

Tell that to the Pokemon fanbase. Most of them seem to want to kill anyone who dares claim Generation 1 is not the greatest thing since sliced bread.

-_-;;

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 

 

1. EQ had forced dependency.
2. MMOs as a whole got really popular.
3. Forming a group therefore wasn't a hindrance to popularity.

That's not only a ridiculous leap of logic but for the past ten years has proven historically false. The most notable example is the reduction in raid size from EQ 'golden age'  to present making content more accessible. Hell, even during those early years (2003 and earlier), most of the MMOs didn't require grouping.

Group or crawl

• EQ
• DAoC

 

Solo and Group content

 

• Furcadia
• Tibia
• Kesmia
• Graal
• Ultima Online
• Asheron's Call
• There
• Planet Entropia
• Runescape
• EVE Online
• Second Life
• Puzzle Pirates
• Neocron
• Anarchy Online

 

The EQers seem to think that EQ defined the way MMOs were at the time. Your 'golden age' encompassed a lot more than just the masochistic monotony of EQ, but acknowledging that would shatter your illusions of The Way It Was.

 

 

 

 

- EQ could be soloed

- EQ was nothing like monotonous

(Played it for years)

Originally posted by dcrose01

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Clearly you have either, 1: never experience a golden age mmo , or 2: are more bitter then the aformentioned "bittervet". You are missing the point entierly. If we the vets have to explain it you won't ever get. But clearly you my friend, are in the minority here.

I did play few of the "golden age MMOs". Wasn't impressed. Actually I was surprised how much people enjoyed simple things such as grinding and spawncamping. Todays market would not swallow that.

Originally posted by waynejr2
Posts about the Golden Age of MUDs and the "real gamers" who played them.

You just won every possible thing - ever.

The golden age of (themepark) MMOs is now.

WOW, GW2, TERA, AION, RIFT, TSW, LOTRO,  SWTOR plus many others. There have never been so many high quality offerings in the MMO market.

2013 promises ESO, Neverwinter and FFXIV.

If you cannot find anything in the above then you have moved on from the genre.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Quirhid

Reply to the topic: Less whine about the "good ol' days".

 

1. Need to form a group? Huge inconvenience. Probably one of the biggest hinderances of the genre.
2. Buffing. Stupid mechanic, imo. Needlessly creates dependencies. Long term buffs should be permanent (meaning no long term buffs) and buffs more tactical in general. All removable by offensive abilites ofcourse.
3. See number 1.
4. Meaningful is entirely subjective. I don't find any meaning in fighting over a virtual castle. It is pointless. I'd much rather play for ladder rankings and tournaments.

 

And here he is as usual on queue.

Go play console games...really, because everything you talk about are console game qualities. MMORPG's and console games are a different genre for a reason. Every damn thread that dares say something about games that take time, thinking, or interaction you are sure to jump on. If you don't like the topic...move on and don't reply with your usual garbble of  anti-MMORPG whine.

They only take time. Not much thinking. Much of it is pointless and tedious.

I sure don't enjoy being able to get to level cap in a month or less (Without really trying), being able to solo almost everything and not have to talk to another person, have quest NPC's marked with ridiculously large "!" and the accompanying quest being 10 feet away and able to complete in a few minutes for some reward you've already out leveld the use of, etc, etc, etc.....

I have no trouble with level caps and the time it takes to get there. And I didn't even mention it here. However, I do not approve the way many games try to stretch the game by adding level ups that give you practically nothing and then force you to grind for them.

Never mentioned the icons above NPCs either, but it does serve a purpose. I never thought it was fun searching for an NPC I need to return a quest to or read through walls of text to find out just how many boars I need to slay. Lets face it, whatever story is in there, the quests will always be along the same lines of kill X, fetch Y, be a good errand boy and take this to Z...

But I don't find EVERY thread someone is talking about those kinds, or talking about things they enjoy in them, or miss from a particular one that is closed down because everyone got bored of it and the population fell off after 6 months or less and do what you do. Just stop already.

I don't do that for any game. Games end for me, every game - even your "golden age ones". When I get bored, thats it, I don't look back.

Why do you come to this site or play MMORPG's if you don't like them as they were intended. Again...there is a reason they are a seperate genre. I have a full time job and responsibilities, but I still play Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, which isn't instant gratification, etc. I find or make the time. I take it at the pace I can enjoy it and progress at my own pace. If you can't find the time, then maybe it's time to stop playing MMORPG's or it isn't the genre for you.

Never inteded to be like you said. And I've played Vanguard myself. Being a student I have quite a lot of time. Didn't like it specifically because it had nothing new or interesting in it, it was grindy and had old school values. If you are entertained, fine. Just don't tell me how to enjoy my games.

All this "supposed to be" talk is you wishing you could turn the clock ten years. Its not about what MMOs should or shouldn't have, its about you living in the past and refusing to move on.

And I know this will probably get me a warning or ban, but cripes...enough is enough.

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
I don't believe the golden age of MMO's has even happened it.  The first generation of something is rarely the best. 

Some users made a video recently, from a world i've been on for many years.

It was my virtual home

Now, after some years of futher investigation in cyberspace, i found many incredible and pretty places, but they had all no face, no meaning.

There was no life, no personality.

Now i am back Home.

You have no idea, how deep i am connected to that world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wzQ3M9QzUY

Grouping? Does that mean I might have to interact with other, other people! OMG as a respectable sociopath that’s the last thing I go online for.

Don’t talk to me, don’t touch me and F* F* S* don’t ask to group with me. I play with my tinfoil hat on and know how dangerous all you guys are. PUGs kill. It is a well known fact that they do so stay away!...

…Oh sorry I was getting carried away by Solo fever. Of course groups were hard to find, but do something about that and you have a MMO with camaraderie and the joy of a job well done as a team.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Um...you could totally solo in EQ.

Didn't say you couldn't, but I completely expected a knee-jerk reaction from the exEQers, so I don't fault you for not reading.

It didn't FORCE you to group.

Why is it that the exEQers will create thread after thread about going back to the way things were when you had to group to get things done (in a 'real' MMO, of course) but when they are shown that gameplay actually was in the minority across MMOs, they do a 180 and swear you could solo your way straight to cap.

It didn't force you to group? I guess the people that agree with you just don't post on the internet ever.