Originally posted by apocoluster

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Very simple. Don't mix pvp and pve.

Do it like PS2 .. a 100% open world pvp game, and nothing else. Or don't do it at all.

Amen..make a pure game no double dipping.  PVE and PVE only, no resources wasted on a  PVP system that wonldn't  satisfy anybody.  Just throw it out and not worry about it. 

*eye balls ToR :) *

ToR is better done as a online MP RPG. The world part is just not compelling. And because it is restricted to so many MMO convention, the combat is not fun. If it has Force Unleashed type (with modification of course) action combat, I may actually be playing it.

It jsut don't feel right when a jedi is fighting like 3 non-descript worker at the same time. A jedi needs to be able to mow down tons of enemies (like in D3).

Originally posted by evilastro

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

A complete change in player culture away from the juvenile posturing cheating mentality that seems to pervade these games.

I think this was quite well handled in Lineage II where you became a PK and your name turned red after killing another player.

When you were a PK and you were killed, you had increased chance of dropping items you were wearing...quite a lot.

In order to lose the PK status, you had to kill monsters. The more people you killed, the more monsters you had to kill. As I remember from early chronicles, it took hours of grind in order to lose this status. Also once someone spotted you, everyone started to chase you. People were shouting in general chat that there is a PK at this and that location. It was pretty tough life for a PK.

Nevertheless, there were some successful PK clans on the server where I used to play.

Originally posted by coretex666

I think this was quite well handled in Lineage II where you became a PK and your name turned red after killing another player.

When you were a PK and you were killed, you had increased chance of dropping items you were wearing...quite a lot.

In order to lose the PK status, you had to kill monsters. The more people you killed, the more monsters you had to kill. As I remember from early chronicles, it took hours of grind in order to lose this status. Also once someone spotted you, everyone started to chase you. People were shouting in general chat that there is a PK at this and that location. It was pretty tough life for a PK.

Nevertheless, there were some successful PK clans on the server where I used to play.

Nothing like a good old fashioned lynching to improve a game. 

Originally posted by evilastro

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

For sure should have significant penaltys for gankers, but the penaltys should be proportional to the offenses. There is not any sense in punishing a PK with permadeath or lose of all itens if the kill commited by him didn't made even 5% of this damage to the victim.

Originally posted by eric1000

Originally posted by evilastro

Been thinking lately about why I tend to dislike open world PvP games. In pretty much every one of these games I have encountered childish players who rush to max level / power and then use that to grief new players or characters. 

With some of the games coming out like Age of Wushu and Darkfall Unholy Wars there are some consequence systems in place to supposedly prevent this kind of behaviour, but honestly I just dont think they go far enough.

I think if you want a realistic consequence system it needs to hit them hard, something they dont want to lose.

I would love to see a open world PvP game, where murdering another player (that is killing them without just reason, no guild conflict or territory control, or free for all PvP flagged areas such as arenas) would lead to bounties. While you have a bounty on your head you should be limited to lawless camps and areas.

The first offense within a week should result in jail, which will then strip your character of all currency and give it to the player who collected the bounty.  If a second offense is commited, the second bounty should  result in permadeath for the offending character and the player collecting the bounty gets to keep all the equipment of the criminal character.

Definitely goes hand in hand with the death penalty given to murderers. Real incentive to limit the amount of players who are happy to grief due to a lack of consequence in these games.  A system like that would personally make me quite happy to have open PvP, because I know that while the danger is there that someone is willing to commit murder, there wont be cowardly attacks on new players for no reason. And would add a bit of lawful vs unlawful conflict for players interested in playing the villian or the hero.

So my question is, what  would make other people who normally shun PvP games interested in an open world PvP system?

 Bounty systems are wide open to abuse.  One player runs up a huge bounty on himself, gets a friend to kill him and then they split the money.  i do however agree with the intent.  Open PvP MMO's like DF will never be anything other than small niche games as a direct result of the griefers you mention. 

Archeage will be a OW FFA pvp with some loot and punishments controled by the players. AA dont seens to be a mmo that will be only a "niche".

take EvE

totally massive areas

safe-ish areas for new players and ppl looking to relax, but lower rewards

now make itany genre of character (sci-fi, fantasy, etc)

player guilds can build where they want, owning areas of land to get supplies tithed to them from both players and NPC's of that area.  making stuff important to own.

these controlled areas will not revert to any NPC faction, 1 guild could rule them all (technically possible in EvE)

in depth alliance system where smaller guilds could be hired on coin per day for tasks (war, collection, mission protection)

guild sizes capped (nice high number like 300) to incourage alliance system

hirable and trainable NPC's. Must be led by a PC into the field to train against NPC monsters (or PC's they find). can later be posted with their xp level wherever the guild controlling them wants.

resources unevenly distributed across the many massive maps to encourange trading.

player run trade caravans

night/day system (6 hour cycle about) where Mobs change patterns

buildable roads, taverns, walls, castles, ships (think Warcraft rts on crack)

player collected resources are used to buff the NPC's that work such constructs. the constructs give said player/guild bonuses during the day cycle. (owning a tavern gives 5% gold cost reduction to trade goods with NPC's, being captain of a guard allows you to summon once per day 4 npc guardsmen.... etc.)

you see where i am going

that would make me want to play

An mmo that focuses mainly on open world pvp is not a really good way to get non pvp players to play. I don't mind the pvp, but if thats the first and foremost objective then it's not really fun.

I would definitely play the game if the other features is something I can get into. Give me a whole bunch of things to do and put pvp at the bottom of all the features available and you'll have a player.

The ONLY thing that would make open world PvP worth my while is an off switch that isn't instantaneous and is SET for a matter of hours before you can toggle it again. Personally, I don't mind open PvP. Darkfall, for instance, played it for a good year or so, almost from launch. Problem is, I played a crafter. Which means I spent most of my time lying face down in the dirt while some idiot was screaming "WHA HAPPEN!?" at my grave stone or sending me tells about how "your tears feed me" when I wasn't actually pissed off. Just a simple "Sigh, gotta go find a new spot to mine." when ALL I was interested in was gathering up some iron/wood and grinding up my crafting skills.

The biggest problem I have with PvP is the standard PvP gamer. Honorless, cowardly, and juvenile. If I'm rolling out in force, sure, I'm looking for a fight. Come find me, and I'll tear off your face. However, if I'm rolling out and I come across someone who's mining, or obviously not geared for combat or just trying to get somewhere, I'll leave you the fuck be. Simple as that. Standard PvP gamer? Kill you on sight for "teh lulz" and spank the monkey imagining how pissed off they got over being killed. It's retarded. It's not a contest of skill, it's not a glorious victory over an equal opponent, it's absolutely pointless.

Give me my switch to deny these juvenile twats their "lulz" and I'll play the game. Until then, fuck PvP in ANY game that isn't purely PvP. All it's going to do is bore me to tears, because what I want to do is un-doable.

First person to tell me "Get a clan noob" gets a brick to the face.

(edited for typo)

no levels just prestige or notoriety ranks.  You gain prestige from killing notorious players, and notoriety from killing prestigous players.  If you are Notoriety rank 10, you gain points for killing prestige rank 5 and up. Less than that and you don't gain anything. If you initiate combat, and kill someone 10 levels below your rank, you lose points.  If you are notorious, you can kill other notorious players but if you are prestigous than you can't kill other prestigous players without drastically losing prestige.

No classes. There would also have to be a good mechanic in place to balance armor types and weapon types.

Lots of roleplay mechanics.  lots of emotes, actions, etc. 

Permadeath  When your character dies, you start over. Lower level toons would have pretty rampant fighting, but once your rank got high enough, you'd start being more careful.

Clothing options opened up with rank levels. You can pick how your character looks, but some clothing requires a certain rank to be able to wear it.

Decaying rank from not playing. Every day you don't play you lose 1 rank.

Only one toon.  You make one character and play that character until it dies. You're not bound by class so your one toon can play however you want.