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News & Features Discussion  » Elder Scrolls Online: Daggerfall Covenant Questions Answered

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43 posts found
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/08/13 8:49:17 AM#21
Originally posted by Soulryn

I am laughing so hard. 

 

Now you´re complaining that you cant play with your friend, if you pick different races in different factions. In WoW, if you want to playan Orc, and your friend a Human, then you wont play together either.

 

Its nice how doomsayers find reason to hate the game, everytime.

I kind of thought the same thing but you have to understand that not everyone who's going to be playing this game is familiar with MMO standards.  From all he knows he can pick the different races in the original games without being tied down to a faction.

I mean THIS IS A BIG DEAL!  Do you know HOW LONG elder scroll fans have been waiting to play a multiplayer version of our beloved game?  Now instead of getting that, we're being handed a generic piece of crap by a group of developers/publishers/investors who think they know best.  They are turning their back on the source material because they want to play it safe but imo that is more risky than making an original product.

It was the same thing with SWTOR.  They shouldn't have make an MMO but a multiplayer version of KOTOR.  They wouldn't have been held to retarded expectations or compromise the intergity of their product to satisfy what they think the players want.  Now they are doing it to ESO, torn between an originality and conformity.

It's doomed to fail but not because of races restricted to factions, it's going to fail because it's a MMO.  The popular formula that players are hard locked into limit this genre.  These triple A publishers wouldn't dare deviate too far from the WoW standard.  They keep pitching these 'new and innovative' ideas but at it's core it's the same thing reskinned.

People say that developers can't get too original with MMOs but who says that about other game genres.  They've been allowed to grow in all sorts of directions but the MMO is still stuck on raids, gear and formality.  The MMO market is stale and it will be many years before it finally starts growing again.

I hate the fact that this was Elder Scrolls chance for something amazing, the moment all the fans have been waiting for and it was wasted on this rubbish.

  Battlerock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/11
Posts: 997

1/08/13 8:59:50 AM#22
Was excited but not anymore , the idea originally excited me, the lack of substance has now turned me off as well.
  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6789

1/08/13 9:12:49 AM#23

Lore questions are outright dumb in a question and answer session.  I mean come on, I can make up lore on the fly too and it is just about as meaningless as these anwers.

Question and answer session should be about game play, not made up on the fly lore.

If you want someone to get interested in your game, lore is probably not going to do it.  You have to wonder about the decision to put such on a website as a question and answer session.  Makes you wonder about the game if they think this is important, especially since there is already tons of lore out there for readers perusal if they so desire.

 

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/08/13 9:23:56 AM#24
Originally posted by Soulryn

They actually already explained why the Alliances were created, and why the races joined.

It makes sense, at least lore-wide...

Let me stop you right there, no it does not make sense lore-wise.  They fed you crap from their writing department to alter the lore for it to make sense.  In original lore none of this makes sense.  Races that were friends are now enemies, races who do not get along are now allied and races that are loners are now jumping at the oppertunity to join others... they changed the lore to accomidate this 3 faction malformation.

The game should have never been focused around the war.  Have a war in the background and leave the factions in assigned areas but you should have to choose a faction to join and fight for (in order to particapate in PvP).   Make a questline to join a faction, make it hard for outside races to join a different faction, ignore the war completely and just explore the world even if you are mistrusted or treated as a hostile by NPCs in other territories... TES core concept is about freedom and this game does not give it to you. 

Yes, I know it's an MMO and people are expecting certian things.  I know it's easier to copy what other MMOs have done instead of creating new mechanics BUT that's the designer's job.  It is completely possible to design a game in such a way that it would be closer to elder scrolls and have a persistant online world.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/08/13 9:49:27 AM#25
Originally posted by sapphen

Let me stop you right there, no it does not make sense lore-wise.  They fed you crap from their writing department to alter the lore for it to make sense.  In original lore none of this makes sense.  Races that were friends are now enemies, races who do not get along are now allied and races that are loners are now jumping at the oppertunity to join others... they changed the lore to accomidate this 3 faction malformation.

The game should have never been focused around the war.  Have a war in the background and leave the factions in assigned areas but you should have to choose a faction to join and fight for (in order to particapate in PvP).   Make a questline to join a faction, make it hard for outside races to join a different faction, ignore the war completely and just explore the world even if you are mistrusted or treated as a hostile by NPCs in other territories... TES core concept is about freedom and this game does not give it to you. 

Yes, I know it's an MMO and people are expecting certian things.  I know it's easier to copy what other MMOs have done instead of creating new mechanics BUT that's the designer's job.  It is completely possible to design a game in such a way that it would be closer to elder scrolls and have a persistant online world.

Nail meet head...and stop hitting him so often!

  NC-John

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/13
Posts: 112

1/08/13 9:51:39 AM#26

It's a catch 22 with game development these days. I can assure you these Devs have a design document written in stone and heavily planned. The hard part is they have a previous franchise looming over them that demands they make it like a true elder scrolls RPG.

I don't think they have the resources to create a pure sandbox elder scrolls game, which is what is required to pull this off.

They can still do well, but I would advise them to design the game to be B2P or F2P right off the bat. You don't want to implement those two pay models a year after release and then try to explain yourself to current fans, who will be upset and angry you didn't stick with a pure subscription model and now the game has failed and went F2P.

It's bad PR and leaves a fowl taste in the players mouths once you shift pay models so fast after release.

I wish them the best, but don't envy the task ahead with a generation who demands change, but becomes upset if that change doesn't include near a decade of Wows content.

 

"Not even a cray super computer can make this game run well. Thats what happens when you code an MMO in pascal. " - miglor

  User Deleted
1/08/13 1:31:29 PM#27
Originally posted by ShakyMo
The factions they've picked don't male sense to me. They should have gone.

Breton, redguard, nord
High elf, wood elf, dark elf
Orc, khajit, argonian

Imo, although dark elves are still a dubious fit there.

Well if going with 3 factions

Those factions never would have worked, due to geographical restrictions.  Maybe Breton's, Redguard, and Nord, but even that would have been an awkward fit due to having Orcs right in the middle.

High Elves and Wood Elves are at least corner of the world, but Dark Elves are in the opposite corner.

Argonian, Khajit, and Orcs don't share even a single border between any of them, not to mention their cultures are all completely different.

 

It sounds kind of like you have no real grasp of Elder Scrolls lore, which is fine.  Your suggestion just makes no real sense as a result.

  User Deleted
1/08/13 1:33:07 PM#28
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
I really dont like this? I want to be a Nord but my friend a Breton? so we cant play together and pvp together, sorry but what the FK is this? an mmo we cant play with friends or pvp with friends because of this limiting faction, why cant we pick race and then faction? what the frakin hell is this seriously? suck an awesome amazing looking game ruined by this fail faction restriction.

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

  Chattaway

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 136

1/08/13 1:47:53 PM#29
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
I really dont like this? I want to be a Nord but my friend a Breton? so we cant play together and pvp together, sorry but what the FK is this? an mmo we cant play with friends or pvp with friends because of this limiting faction, why cant we pick race and then faction? what the frakin hell is this seriously? suck an awesome amazing looking game ruined by this fail faction restriction.

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

Did the 3 factions have different races what were widely know for over 10 years through TES lore? which have different appearences and attributes? DAOC was no where near 1% the world TES is, so dont even go there.

 

The fact this game is 90% PVE with 10% PVP endgame like GW2, doe snot justify the racial/faction restrictions, in a mainly pve game i want to play who what and where i like, this aint fking wow or DAOC lore but they just had to make a wow clone faction system, which is wrong in the firs tplace for this game, i know in 20 years lets make the British Alqaeda and Taliban allies, dont make fu sense but im sure a politition can make some lore ofr it.

 
  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

1/08/13 1:52:56 PM#30
Originally posted by asmkm22

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

Just because the developers want this to be DAoC 2 doesn't mean they are right.   Elder Scrolls series is considered one of the best rpg games ever, they don't need DAoC's systems to boost their validity.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/08/13 1:57:24 PM#31
Daoc had a huge world, easily as big as tamriel.

It also had ace lore, with the factions bound to Celtic, Viking and Arthurian mythology respectively.

So don't even go there ;)

I would have preferred if you joined one of 3 factions like in Morrowind, but there's nothing wrong with them picking RVR as the pvp model, as tes single player games DON'T HAVE PVP AT ALL! So they had to pick one pvp model.

So the choices were
1 ffa guild based pvp like eve and darkfall which I like, but would scare away all the pure pve types.
2 wow style instanced away minigames. I.e. pointless shite
Or 3 rvr with pvp and pve flagged areas of the world.

I think they made the right choice considering the budget / risk of the game. But like I said would prefer if you joined one of 3 imperial houses like the dark elf houses in Morrowind.
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/08/13 1:59:43 PM#32
Also Adam, what makes you think its a 90% pve game? Where have the devs said this.

I think considering the devs worked on daoc and uo before, this is unlikely to be a wow style raiders first everyone else second game. I mean they've talked a lot more about endgame pvp than they have pve.
  Chattaway

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 136

1/08/13 2:40:45 PM#33
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Also Adam, what makes you think its a 90% pve game? Where have the devs said this.

I think considering the devs worked on daoc and uo before, this is unlikely to be a wow style raiders first everyone else second game. I mean they've talked a lot more about endgame pvp than they have pve.
 

because the zone in the middle is pvp? and the rest of the game world is pve and they are tsalkign constantly about pve pve pve public pve dungeons pve exploration pve mobs pve dynamics, are you retarded? this is mainly a pve game jsut like gw2, people will do pvp mainly endgame, dont be some pvp fanboy thinking one of the worlds best rpg games is goign to be mainly pvp.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/08/13 2:50:01 PM#34
I don't consider gw2 a mainly pve game.

Mainly pve games - wow, swtor, tsw, eq
Mainly pvp games - planetside, darkfall
Games with a nice balance of the 2 - eve, daoc, gw2 and probably TESO.

Let's take your "tiny pvp area" its the entire size of oblivion, its the whole province of cyrodil.

Now say you are a nord. You get the whole of skyrim and vardenfell for pve and the whole of cyrodil for pvp. So 2/3rds of your world is pve, 1/3rd pvp. But... quite a bot of that pve area will be leveling content, let's say for argument 50% of it, so at endgame half your relevant world is pve the other pvp.

The fact that they haven't gone with token tacked on mini game bullshit. The fact that being the best at pvp leads to the ultimate reward, getting crowned as emperor. The fact that they keep talking up this faction war despite all the howls of protest. the fact that all the lead devs are fans of and cone from games with a strong emphasis on pvp. All this points to your 90% pve "fact" being a whole load of bullshit made up on the spot.
  Chattaway

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 136

1/08/13 4:16:06 PM#35
Originally posted by ShakyMo
I don't consider gw2 a mainly pve game.

Mainly pve games - wow, swtor, tsw, eq
Mainly pvp games - planetside, darkfall
Games with a nice balance of the 2 - eve, daoc, gw2 and probably TESO.

Let's take your "tiny pvp area" its the entire size of oblivion, its the whole province of cyrodil.

Now say you are a nord. You get the whole of skyrim and vardenfell for pve and the whole of cyrodil for pvp. So 2/3rds of your world is pve, 1/3rd pvp. But... quite a bot of that pve area will be leveling content, let's say for argument 50% of it, so at endgame half your relevant world is pve the other pvp.

The fact that they haven't gone with token tacked on mini game bullshit. The fact that being the best at pvp leads to the ultimate reward, getting crowned as emperor. The fact that they keep talking up this faction war despite all the howls of protest. the fact that all the lead devs are fans of and cone from games with a strong emphasis on pvp. All this points to your 90% pve "fact" being a whole load of bullshit made up on the spot.

I like how you say GW2 is mainly a PVE game, yet most people PVP ont he game, hence WVWVW and the structured PVP, guild wars is all about PVP even int he first game. GW2 has a lot of pve content to play though how you see it is opinion. Just because TESO has a end game pvp zone where you can become the emperor dont make it the main means of the game, why would they turn a pure PVE IP into a mainly PVP IP? when what we wanted for years and years is TES multiplayer?

So TESO will be mainly a pve game with endgame pvp, but as myself am mainly a pvper, just like gw2 when they hyped WvWvW as the most epic thing ever and it turned out to be a fraking boring ass zerg fest of 100 peopel running around the map kiling groups of 10 people and caping a castle.
  rguilbert

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/11
Posts: 108

1/08/13 4:45:03 PM#36

I agree that details about gameplay would be more interesting than lore questions.  However, many of the people griping seem to be concerned with lore, so maybe the devs are trying to placate them.

 

As for complaining that you can't play any race and do whatever you want to with regards to joining different factions, etc...I think people are being ridiculous.  The whole setup is to allow the end-game content to be RVR...much like DAOC.  Allowing everyone to do whatever they wanted would essentially destroy the whole plan for the end game.  The same folks saying they know better than the devs about how to guide gameplay would be the ones complaining that there isn't anything to do once they reaced level cap if they got their way.

 

From what I can tell, this is headed towards being an RVR game with a TES flavor.  If that's not your thing, then perhaps this game won't be for you.  If you want to play TES single player or co-op, the good news is that a new TES game is being worked on. 

  Chattaway

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 136

1/08/13 4:56:23 PM#37
Originally posted by rguilbert

I agree that details about gameplay would be more interesting than lore questions.  However, many of the people griping seem to be concerned with lore, so maybe the devs are trying to placate them.

 

As for complaining that you can't play any race and do whatever you want to with regards to joining different factions, etc...I think people are being ridiculous.  The whole setup is to allow the end-game content to be RVR...much like DAOC.  Allowing everyone to do whatever they wanted would essentially destroy the whole plan for the end game.  The same folks saying they know better than the devs about how to guide gameplay would be the ones complaining that there isn't anything to do once they reaced level cap if they got their way.

 

From what I can tell, this is headed towards being an RVR game with a TES flavor.  If that's not your thing, then perhaps this game won't be for you.  If you want to play TES single player or co-op, the good news is that a new TES game is being worked on. 

 

I still dont see why we cant pick a race and e.g. get to lv 10 and thean pick a faction to fight for in pvp, not only does it mean me and friends cant play together because i dont liek the races they play and they dont like the races i play but it means its going to be more boring exploring the worls as we will always see the same 3 races.

We NEED to be able to pick race and then perma pick faction, theres no excluse fo rit and its easier lore wise to make it fit and allows people to play the race they want, imagine for a moment how man people will be forced to play the race they dont want to just to play with friends? do you think that is fair at all?

  User Deleted
1/08/13 4:58:48 PM#38
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by AdamChattaway
I really dont like this? I want to be a Nord but my friend a Breton? so we cant play together and pvp together, sorry but what the FK is this? an mmo we cant play with friends or pvp with friends because of this limiting faction, why cant we pick race and then faction? what the frakin hell is this seriously? suck an awesome amazing looking game ruined by this fail faction restriction.

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

Did the 3 factions have different races what were widely know for over 10 years through TES lore? which have different appearences and attributes? DAOC was no where near 1% the world TES is, so dont even go there.

 

The fact this game is 90% PVE with 10% PVP endgame like GW2, doe snot justify the racial/faction restrictions, in a mainly pve game i want to play who what and where i like, this aint fking wow or DAOC lore but they just had to make a wow clone faction system, which is wrong in the firs tplace for this game, i know in 20 years lets make the British Alqaeda and Taliban allies, dont make fu sense but im sure a politition can make some lore ofr it.

 

I've been a big fan since Daggerfall, and I love the lore.  I just think you are making a bigger deal out of this than it needs to be.  You act like they somehow changed everything about the races, and reconned TES history to support it.

They really didn't though.  A lot of the ES races have always had a pretty vague history aside from the Imperials.  Khajit and Argonians get filled out a little more each game, usually through the books lying around the games, but that's it.

What's funny is that the one major lore question they've raised/dodged that I never see anyone complain about, has to do with the Orcs.  Orcs were basically considered monster living in caves during the time ESO takes place, so they probably shouldn't even be a player race anyway.  They didn't have their first city for a good 1000 years after ESO, if I remember correctly.

Aside from that, the rest makes sense.  At least enough for the time the game is set in.  Still, people get frothing at the mouth over this stuff.

  User Deleted
1/08/13 5:06:36 PM#39
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by asmkm22

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

Just because the developers want this to be DAoC 2 doesn't mean they are right.   Elder Scrolls series is considered one of the best rpg games ever, they don't need DAoC's systems to boost their validity.

And just because you disagree with them, doesn't mean you are right.  Personally, I prefer to have restricted factions because it creates identity.  Who you fight for doesn't mean a whole lot when you can just change sides with a questline.  What race your character is doesn't mean a whole lot when you can just choose whatever faction you want.  If you strip it down too much, the factions become meaningless.  Look at TSW and see how meaningful factions really are when there's no reason to choose one over the other.  Imagine WoW, where players can change factions and keep their race, and imagine how much less meaning it would have to be Horde or Alliance.  Look at GW2 and tell me with a straight face that the game is has more depth and complexity due to making racial factions irrelevent beyond character looks.

  Chattaway

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 136

1/08/13 5:23:40 PM#40
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by sapphen
Originally posted by asmkm22

DAoC, widely considered one of the best PvP MMO's ever, was the same.  3 factions, all different, and all fighting.

Just because the developers want this to be DAoC 2 doesn't mean they are right.   Elder Scrolls series is considered one of the best rpg games ever, they don't need DAoC's systems to boost their validity.

And just because you disagree with them, doesn't mean you are right.  Personally, I prefer to have restricted factions because it creates identity.  Who you fight for doesn't mean a whole lot when you can just change sides with a questline.  What race your character is doesn't mean a whole lot when you can just choose whatever faction you want.  If you strip it down too much, the factions become meaningless.  Look at TSW and see how meaningful factions really are when there's no reason to choose one over the other.  Imagine WoW, where players can change factions and keep their race, and imagine how much less meaning it would have to be Horde or Alliance.  Look at GW2 and tell me with a straight face that the game is has more depth and complexity due to making racial factions irrelevent beyond character looks.

 

But have you ansewred what is im want to play nord and my friend breton? we cant play together. you or your friend will be forced to play what you dont like to just playe together, and thats what gets on my bellend.

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