"Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. "

I respect your right to choose sub based games.  I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though.

However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance.  Paying thru the nose is a choice.  A sub is not. 

Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating.  Another false statement on your part.  But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Ok again..paying monthly sub for me is no problem. I make more than decent living and i am single, plenty of extra cash to spare.

It isn't about quantity but value of my money. I used to have 4 accounts of SWG, i still spend 200 bucks on console gaming every month.

Problem is that no MMO in recent years have been worth my 15 bucks. And i doubt they ever will be the way things are going. So i am happy with new B2P and freemium models.

They aren't worth your money, but they are worth your time?  o.0

I'm sorry, but if you are telling me that you don't get £2.50/ week worth of enjoyment out of something I have to wonder if you are even having any fun doing it at all...

And if you aren not having fun, I have to wonder why you are not doing something else you find more fun...

Didn't vote. Not a choice I liked.

What's wrong with old school?

Originally posted by Boneserino

"Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. "

I respect your right to choose sub based games.  I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though.

However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance.  Paying thru the nose is a choice.  A sub is not. 

Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating.  Another false statement on your part.  But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.

 

since i never mentioned pay 2 win at all, but the difference being that i prefer to pay a sub for 100 percent game access, than having to pay for 'additional' or 'extras' in a cash shop, and often repeat purchases in order to have that kind of game access, then yes, as far as i am concerned that is 'paying through the nose' and this is in games that arent even pvp centric as you would seem to indicate otherwise, this isnt about games being pay to win, but, pay to play, pay for access, pay to continue, pay to equip, pay to store, pay to travel to, you name it and F2P games probably have it.. pay to win, is a whole other issue.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Boneserino

"Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. "

I respect your right to choose sub based games.  I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though.

However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance.  Paying thru the nose is a choice.  A sub is not. 

Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating.  Another false statement on your part.  But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.

 

since i never mentioned pay 2 win at all, but the difference being that i prefer to pay a sub for 100 percent game access, than having to pay for 'additional' or 'extras' in a cash shop, and often repeat purchases in order to have that kind of game access, then yes, as far as i am concerned that is 'paying through the nose' and this is in games that arent even pvp centric as you would seem to indicate otherwise, this isnt about games being pay to win, but, pay to play, pay for access, pay to continue, pay to equip, pay to store, pay to travel to, you name it and F2P games probably have it.. pay to win, is a whole other issue.

All of what you stated is considered Pay 2 Win by your crowd Phry. If it wasn't then why would you pay it? Correct?  And you are simply stating extremes.  The majority of those things are convenience items and not essential to play.  The reality is nothing like what you claim.

Originally posted by Boneserino

"Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. "

I respect your right to choose sub based games.  I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though.

However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance.  Paying thru the nose is a choice.  A sub is not. 

Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating.  Another false statement on your part.  But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.

 

LOL ppl still believe F2P (p2win) is a good thing?

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Didn't vote. Not a choice I liked.

What's wrong with old school?

Its not worth it. You get the same quality games with F2P. And there hasn't been a justification for a 15$ monthly fee for a long while now. Practically every game covers its costs with box sales alone. Good ones cover the next few expansions too. Subscription fee is mostly profit. Only a small amount goes to running costs.

---

Originally posted by Quirhid

---

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
Didn't vote. Not a choice I liked.

What's wrong with old school?

---

Its not worth it. You get the same quality games with F2P. And there hasn't been a justification for a 15$ monthly fee for a long while now. Practically every game covers its costs with box sales alone. Good ones cover the next few expansions too. Subscription fee is mostly profit. Only a small amount goes to running costs

---

Old School games were worth the sub fee. I just don't see what is wrong with that :)

Originally posted by TsaboHavoc

Originally posted by Boneserino

"Games arent run on thin air, as some people seem to think, people have to be paid, resources such as power, bandwidth, etc etc. all have to be paid for, personally i'd rather pay through a sub fee that gives me 100 percent access to game content, than pay through the nose for 'extras' in the cash shops of various F2P games. "

I respect your right to choose sub based games.  I think you are going to find it increasingly hard though.

However, when you make statements like the one above which is completely biased and untrue, when you refer to "paying thru the nose" it just shows your ignorance.  Paying thru the nose is a choice.  A sub is not. 

Also F2P games make money, otherwise they would not be operating.  Another false statement on your part.  But hey, you are just another of the Pay 2 Win crowd spouting the same tired story.

 

LOL ppl still believe F2P (p2win) is a good thing?

Hehe yeah its hilarious!!

Ya know whats even funnier??

People that actually think you can win an MMO!!  Tee hee hee ROFL!

The monthly sub model may not be dead yet but it's on its way out. There are probably millions of video games players who regard the concept of paying a monthly sub as a ridiculous idea. However, those same players are used to the idea of DLC's to get added content to their games and once most mmo's come in B2P, F2P and freemium flavours and they will, I can see a big increase in new people coming to the mmo market.

Personally, I have three of my favourite mmo's available to me now without a sub. LotRO for which I have a lifetime sub, TSW, which has just gone B2P and GW2, which is not only B2P but which I'm enjoying more than any sub based game since pre cu SWG. The only other game on my radar atm is The Repopulation. That's not due out until the end of the year at the earliest but will also be F2P. I really think it's unlikely I'll ever bother with a sub based game again, whatever the actual sub level. It would have to be something really exceptional to tempt me.

I think they should offer a $15 monthly fee and the option to buy game hours, like APB did briefly at its initial launch. Buying game hours is more expensive than a $15 fee if you play the MMO a lot, but saves money if you play casually.

Originally posted by Boneserino

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
 

 

$15 a month is intimidating ?  It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.

I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.

Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month ;)

15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?

The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.

You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you?  And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60?  That comes to $240 a year.  Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?

....

Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?

So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

but 5$ a month sub model is the thing of the future.

 

Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.

And with growing number of MMORPG game list, consumers would be better off being able to sub to multiple MMOs rather than commit to a single 15$ a month AAA MMO.

By lowering it down to 5$ a month, consumers can squeeze 3 AAA MMOs out of a single month with that same traditional 15$ a month.

With more MMORPG on the game list, more will be played at a time for the avg MMO consumer in theory. (and even more for those that already comfortable with coughing over 60+$ a month to play multiple MMOs)

 

keep in mind this is about sub model alternative then doing the risky F2P and B2P models.

We dont need more mmorpgs we need good mmorpgs again.

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by Boneserino

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Developers still get a constant sub, but not as intimidating as 15 dollar sub model is.
 

 

$15 a month is intimidating ?  It's kind of frightning to actually sit back and think about the type of people who actually complain about the cost of playing an mmo.

I can see not wanting to pay for a game you only play once or twice a month but if it's THE game you're playing $15 is cheaper than anything else you can do for fun....for a whole month.

Its the only thing in real life that hasnt gone up 100-300% in the past decade lol. If the price to play a mmo actualy went up to account for inflation of other things you would be paying 90$ per month ;)

15$/month in todays economy isnt anything lol. For 24/7 entertainment and equal ground in game as everyone else, not having to pay for content, inventory, character slots, etc........ is it realy even an issue?

The only issue is the fact crap games are infesting the market and no one wants to pay a monthly fee for a game barely good enough to be a single player game.

You do realize Onomas that 15 dollars a month adds up to $180 don't you?  And what if you have to pay for the box as well, say $60?  That comes to $240 a year.  Now if you were going to make a purchase that cost that much, would you not at least think carefully before making that decision?

....

Ever realized how much you spend per year for smoke, coffe, drinks, .... and other non necessary and potentially unhealathy habits?

So again ... it does not matter how much would at 15$ in 50 years (wow, 9000$!!!!) ... fact is 15$ for entertrainment is CHEAP.

exactly, you cant even go to the movies for less than 20$ now and thats only 2 hrs worth. Cant go to the park with out gas, entrance fee, food, and cost me 100 last time i went. Took my wife out to eat this past weekend and cost me 45$. I spend 40-45 a week in gas, so just going joy ridding would cost much more. A trip, cruise, flight, anything else cost a ton. Going ot the amusement park just for a day will cost you 100 easy, or buying the season pass is like 100$. Going to a concert will cost you. damn i spend more than that on trivial things daily lol.

15$/month for unlimited entertainment is not intimidating, its a relief! Because 1 sub keeps me, my wife, and child content. And saves me hundreds more in the long run. Not saying we dont go out, but with the economy being tight we limit ourselves to once every two week outtings now.

And yes bones i do blame that on poor mmorpg's that are released this day in age. Who wants to pay a monthly fee for a clone, poor quality game that lacks features/content, or for a game released too early and riddled with bugs?

Originally posted by steelheartx
I'd pay $25 a month for a game that could keep me entralled for three or more years.

Why should i do that when there are 20 games that can last me 3 month each, and they are all free?

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by greenreen 

These are the credits for the games he has been involved in listed on Wikipedia. I see few F2P listed there. What makes him an authority on the subject? His experience is mostly with just one company too. Just because someone publishes a book it never meant they knew best, remember that phrase, those who can't - teach. 

He devloped and ran Metaplace.com. He also doesn't exist in a vacuum and spends a lot of time consulting. Is it your contention that since you've played a lot of video games your personal view of game design and how the industry works is more valid than the experience of those who have been successfully working in the industry for 30 or so years? If so, don't worry, there's a lot of people here like that, so you're in good company. 

 

You don't need an expert to coin a term. Everyone knows a very small number of players pay through the roof. It is not uncommon to name a customer segment. So he borrows the term from the gambling industry and it sticks.

Why is his expertise relevant?

Funny you are the only one that uses it here, and call  people that dont even buy from a cash shop a WHALE. Its kind of derogatory and yoiu should not use it. Since you dont know who spends money over the rest, calling someone who pays for a sub a whale is not only ignorant but childish all together.

 

And for the record that term is stupid beyond belief being used in the gaming industry. Just saying.

you are just wrong.

First, i never call people a whale for paying a sub. That is NOT the defintiion. I have also never called a particular person a whale, since i do not know who is one.

Secondly, i will use the term when it fits the meaning .. i.e. ... the few players who pays a lot more than the norm in a F2P game. Do you have another term for it?

If you are so easier offended on the internet, it is your problem, not mine.