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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What would make you interested in an open world PvP game?

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73 posts found
  User Deleted
1/08/13 8:16:52 AM#21

I enjoy open world pvp so it takes very little to get me interested in it.

 

 

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/08/13 8:19:36 AM#22
Originally posted by mmoDAD
Originally posted by Scarfe
Originally posted by mmoDAD
Originally posted by steelheartx
Nothing, i have no patience for non-consentual PvP.

I have no attention spam for consensual-redundant PvP.

I don't know, there is a reason why boxing, professional wrestling etc get a huge audience, and punching someone in the face in the street gets a court appearance. 

That is a terrible comparison and you know it.

 

Instanced PvP is terrible. After the first month, the best strategies are leaned by all. Thus, the game becomes a constant rinse and repeat borefest.

There is no element of surprise. PvP is expected.

Too be honest, if rewards were removed from Battlegrounds, very few would play them. In fact, they would probably die.

 

I'd have no problem with Instanced PvP if they just kept it off the PvP-labeled servers. But that's not the case. Because of the item-reward incentive, it screws everything up.

Yes it is but was more of a wind up than a real comparison.  I am not a great fan of instanced pvp outside of GW1 or console shooters.  What I do enjoy but is non-existent these days is consensual open world pvp.  What I don't like is ganking. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

1/08/13 8:20:40 AM#23

How many times have you played a game like GTA or Saints Row and decided not to break the law because it would result in a totally effing sweet police chase potentially ending with your magnificent death? That's how effective a bounty system is at stopping ganks.

Time and time and time again people bring up this notion that "Open world PvP is great, but the reason some people don't like it is that they can be killed for no reason by someone they have no hope of defeating. Let's try to fix that!" It's not fixable, because it's the point of playing the game. You get killed a bunch while becoming stronger and smarter, and your efforts pay off as you get good enough to defend yourself or even attack others.

If the point of bounties and jails is to prevent other players from attacking without cause, then WHY allow them to attack other players without cause? Why build it into the game? You don't have to; most games don't. You are quite literally stating that a feature should be added to the game—one that is not present in most games—and then the players who use that feature should be punished in the harshest way you can think of.

Think back to the GTA example I gave. The point of the Wanted system in that game is certainly not to discourage players from breaking the law. I hope that is obvious. The feature exists in order to create gameplay. You'd have to be a pretty poor game designer to look at GTA and say "The Wanted system needs to have much harsher consequences because right now it's definitely not doing enough to prevent unlawful behavior."

  laokoko

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/14/09
Posts: 1974

1/08/13 8:23:01 AM#24

Bounty never really works because you can just send items to another character.

There is some sort of limitation like no trade, can't sell to merchant, have to kill x amount of mob to regain the limit etc I think age of conan have(or had that system).  I dont' know how age of conan is now since I havn't follow it for years.

The best system is just let it be.  And dont' play those game if you don't like it.

Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/08/13 8:33:46 AM#25
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Too be honest, if rewards were removed from Battlegrounds, very few would play them. In fact, they would probably die.

Correct me if I am wrong but arn't those games simply called FPS games? Like battlefield or call of Duty and the like?

Crazy thought but some people just like to PvP for the fun of it because of the challenge. That is the reason i stay away from OW PvP for the most part. There is no challenge. I am either hugely overpowered or hugely underpowered in comparrison. I cannot even remember the last time I was in a well balanced PvP fight in an OW game that was fun and won by the more skillful team.

I play a lot of 'fixed' PvP games. WOT is the one I play most often atm as an example. The thing i love about it is, sometimes people get a D/C, or are idle or just bad players. But the more skillful team will win more often then not. That to me is the essence of any PvP and the problem with PvP in MMORPG's.

 

 

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 126

1/08/13 8:34:30 AM#26

It's not that open world pvp can't be done, it's that to do it right requires some creative thinking with regard to other aspects of the game.  First, you need to squeeze the skill difference between high-level and low-level players.  Low-level players need to have a chance of hurting or even killing a higher level player who attacks them.  They shouldn't be either getting one-hit or swinging and missing for 5 minutes.  Second, you need to eliminate conning.  High level players shouldn't be able to pick out the weak too easily to pk.  Granted it's fair to be able to glean some information from armor and appearance, but I don't see why you always magically know who's strong and who's weak in MMOs from 200 feet away.  Thirdly, the best way to disincentivize griefing is through tangible built-in consequences.  Open loot for example.  If someone wants to go around killing players indiscriminantly, they should be worried about other players retaliating and stealing their gear.  That's not to say that players won't be able to kill for no reason, but they'll at least have to think twice.  Even better is a limited number of lives for a character.  That makes pking a high-risk lifestyle that will shorten character life-span, thus restricting those characters from growing too powerful.

I'm following Trials of Ascension because the design of that game takes this into account (let's hope it gets funded).  It's open PvP, but between the protections of player settlements, lack of conning, and a 100-life per character limit, I'm willing to wager that ultimately there will be remarkably little player killing most of the time unless you're venturing out and willingly putting yourself at risk.  It's simply too risky for any but the most dedicated (and reckless) pkers.  And my hats go off to them.  I much prefer open PvP, with realistic incentives against wanton player killing, to artificial restrictions.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13175

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/08/13 8:36:18 AM#27
Originally posted by mmoDAD

I never understood why people shun player bounties. There are so many ways it can work.

Like I stated in the above post, if a high level player continues to gank lowbies, then he or she will automatically be placed on The Player Bounty Boards. Anyone from the victim's faction can accept the mission. If the accused dies, then that player will be unable to play his character for a 5-7 days.

You are probably thinking, "What kind of reward is that?" Heh. It's a reward that will certainly work. While the hunter may not get anything of value, the thrill of the hunt and the fact that knowing how angry the ganker will be when he finds out that he cannot play his character for another week is intoxicating to many PvP fans.

If people feel that they need to be rewarded with more, then a "bounty collect history" or "hall of fame" can be thrown in - a way to earn titles or aesthetic items.

 

Player Bounties can work. People are just too lazy to do 'em...

Or they are taking the rest of the game into consideration. If your game lacks depth and meaning in every other aspect of the game then your system might work. If low level characters are completely useless in your game then your system might work. If either are false then your system creates a more frustrating situation than the one it tries to correct.

I would not mind in game advertising, it does not break gaming ethos. - Scot

  Maelwydd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1169

1/08/13 8:39:22 AM#28
Originally posted by Disdena

How many times have you played a game like GTA or Saints Row and decided not to break the law because it would result in a totally effing sweet police chase potentially ending with your magnificent death? That's how effective a bounty system is at stopping ganks.

Well if by death you mean fail and die, for good, no reloading from a save....then that is a good deterent and in a single player game reloading is part of the game design. It is not in an MMO so you can't use a single player game design to justify the deisgn of a multiplayer one.

The only real comparrison would be if you couldn't reload from a save in GA or SR...would you still break the law for that car chase if you knew getting caught ment you would have to stat the game again from the start? If you had to think about it then that proves the point.

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1400

We live for The One, we die for The One.

1/08/13 8:40:16 AM#29

"What would make you interested in an open world PvP game? "

 

with so many non-ow pvp games around? probably nothing

  Scalpless

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1393

1/08/13 8:41:49 AM#30
Originally posted by laokoko

Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

  Scarfe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/21/12
Posts: 287

1/08/13 8:45:17 AM#31
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by laokoko

Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

You have just summed up what I hate about most fantasy in one simple phrase there. 

currently playing: DDO, AOC, WoT, P101

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13175

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/08/13 8:48:01 AM#32
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by laokoko

Also I'm not sure how Eve's way translate to the common fantasy games.  Have very far tower shooting arrow at people who gank other?  Have NPC sniple rifleman protect the noob?  I just don't know.  That sound weird though.

Anything is possible in fantasy. It's actually much easier, because you've got teleportation magic and wizards and such. "A wizard did it" is a perfectly fine explanation for a much-needed gameplay-related system.

Exactly. No one complained about the guards in UO being an immersion breaker. Actually, the EVE system is modelled after the UO system, UO being a fantasy game.

I would not mind in game advertising, it does not break gaming ethos. - Scot

  Benedikt

Tipster

Joined: 12/12/04
Posts: 1400

We live for The One, we die for The One.

1/08/13 8:50:55 AM#33
Originally posted by Maelwydd

If another player has the freedom to kill me anytime, anywhere, repeatedly...

then I want the ability to own land, have a law forbidding anyone attacking another on it, the ability to have guards capture said killer, a jail to put them in, and the ability to repeatedly NOT let them out.

Freedom to play how I want and player justice too!

But that is what FFA OW PvP'ers want right?

hehe, i like this :)

  Ezhae

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 740

1/08/13 8:53:40 AM#34

Meaningful risk, reward, punishment system as well as secondary goals.

 

I don't want a ganker simulator. If a person A attacks perosn B unprovoked and it happens several times there needs to be consequence for person A in the game world. Either he ends up on Wanted list and killing him provides significant reward, or the guards in major cities/patrosl become hostile to him, etc.

Same time, playing the game from the perspesctive of cold blood murderer fugitive/exile should be a game in itself. There should be content built specially for such characters. From safehavens, hidden bases of operations and stashes to resupply to a while system of "renown" that benefits the player that makes the name for himself through being an active "bad guy".

Further more having some sort of territory control/ability to enforce your influence over a region is what gives a reason to have "non gank" pvp where groups can fight for said control in more organized fashion.

 

In short, something like EVE, just better. 

  sanshi44

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1097

1/08/13 8:56:26 AM#35

If the game is lvl based they should make it like how Everquest1 pvp servers worked, you can only attack players within ur lvl range i think it was 5 levels appart or so from u level, this way you couldnt grief lower players and people you fight can still kill you even if a lower lvl than you. Although the classes wernt balanced round pvp since it was a  PvE made game. Surprising it still has one of the Best PvP sytem and server types ive seen.

PvP Server types

FFA PvP - As it says

Pvp team Diety - The side you were on was dependant on the god you worshiped on chatacter creation

PvP team races - 4 teams (Orges, darkelfs, Iskars, trolls (orange named Evil races) Vs Dwarf, Gnome, Halfing (Short races green names) Vs Woodelf, half elf, High elf (elf races purple names) VS Human, Erudite, barbarian (Humanish blue names)

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 13175

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/08/13 9:20:09 AM#36
Originally posted by Benedikt
Originally posted by Maelwydd

If another player has the freedom to kill me anytime, anywhere, repeatedly...

then I want the ability to own land, have a law forbidding anyone attacking another on it, the ability to have guards capture said killer, a jail to put them in, and the ability to repeatedly NOT let them out.

Freedom to play how I want and player justice too!

But that is what FFA OW PvP'ers want right?

hehe, i like this :)

I think if it wasn't for the fact that real estate is limited to a good degree, devs would probably enjoy designing a system like that. The big hurdle isn't the system itself but in maintaining or decaying all the dormant or empty lots that would take up space.

Between the elitist pricks and the people that genuinely want to have a safe haven for friends and guildmates, the idea of a secure, gated community within the game world seems to have wide appeal.

 

I would not mind in game advertising, it does not break gaming ethos. - Scot

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 5245

1/08/13 9:53:12 AM#37
Capital punishment for griefers would be a good start. PvP without griefing consequences just shows why anarchy doesn't work. It has its uses as a social experiment, but that's about it.
  Sinella

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/03/09
Posts: 342

1/08/13 10:41:52 AM#38
Nothing. Forced PvP is only an annoyance for me, why would I be interested in it.
  Maephisto

Novice Member

Joined: 2/15/12
Posts: 653

1/08/13 11:03:58 AM#39
Originally posted by Scarfe
 

Yes it is but was more of a wind up than a real comparison.  I am not a great fan of instanced pvp outside of GW1 or console shooters.  What I do enjoy but is non-existent these days is consensual open world pvp.  What I don't like is ganking. 

This doesnt exist.  If it did, it would be horribly boring.

The whole point of OWPvP is to provide a sense of danger while travelling the world.

With the exception of high lvl characters preying on low level ones, ganking is one of the perks of OWPvP.  It means the person wasnt paying attention to surroundings. 

It baffles me how people say they want to have OWPvP and yet have it completely neutered at the same time.  SWTOR did this and it was horrible.  They advertised OWPvP, but went to great lengths to keep it from happening. 

My advice is to stick to a PvE server.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 22178

1/08/13 11:07:30 AM#40

Very simple. Don't mix pvp and pve.

Do it like PS2 .. a 100% open world pvp game, and nothing else. Or don't do it at all.

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