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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Did ANet Paint Themselves into a Corner?

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103 posts found
  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

1/08/13 5:47:43 AM#61
Originally posted by Djildjamesh

I think many people missed this post or something coz noones replied to it.

But this man/woman speaks the truth. Looting is gw2 is shit and was 10x better in gw1. I love the game, but the dropped the ball here.

What?

In Prophecies and Factions most crap was actually merch fodder since you couldn't change the stats.

People just like to claim BS but that don't fly with people that actually know the games.

In fact ins most games most gear is merch fodder.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3466

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/08/13 5:53:56 AM#62

Doesn't every company have this dilemma? It comes down to who you want to please.

My money is on constant gear progression, since that is where the bigger money is at. It seems most players want the constant gear grind in order to log in.

Will A-Net sell out? We will see :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/08/13 6:00:06 AM#63
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Doesn't every company have this dilemma? It comes down to who you want to please.

My money is on constant gear progression, since that is where the bigger money is at. It seems most players want the constant gear grind in order to log in.

Will A-Net sell out? We will see :)

ANet said GW2 will have a gear grind. It will be a 'slight slope' but it will be there.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  dimnikar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/12
Posts: 277

1/08/13 6:12:09 AM#64
Originally posted by dariuszp

I don't understand you people. I see no reason in playing gear based MMO. Why ? Because there is no sense. Repeat same contaent over and over to get new pair underwear so you can do same thing somewhere else for the sake of new pair of underwear ?

WTF people ? This is why themeparks MMO never last. Guild Wars 2 maybe is not a sandbox MMO but sure it's fun to play while I can't stand games like TOR, WoW and other sh**.

I think they should go horizontal in progression. New pair of underwear that have not so different stats but unique look. Throw it around the world + more for hard challenges etc. Add "secret receipes" for crafters and stuff like that. It's like when I go to the shop. I don't want shirt that every single idiot have because it's "new trend". I want dam shirt that no one else have.

So... "repeat same content over and over"  but for  different LOOKING gear, as opposed to gear with different STATS (aka, the staple of the RPG genre).

You're just not all there, that's all there's to it O.o

http://lyrics.iztok.org/verse/Lynyrd_Skynyrd/Simple_Man/80615

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7493

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

1/08/13 6:18:51 AM#65
Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

 

Then they should be damned at least sticking to their original vision and having faith in their core concepts.

Selling the game as one thing and then switching to another to appeal to the broadest market will cost them a lot of trust in the long run with their core fans.

It's the perfect way to ruin their brand tbh.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

1/08/13 6:26:11 AM#66
Originally posted by dimnikar
Originally posted by dariuszp

I don't understand you people. I see no reason in playing gear based MMO. Why ? Because there is no sense. Repeat same contaent over and over to get new pair underwear so you can do same thing somewhere else for the sake of new pair of underwear ?

WTF people ? This is why themeparks MMO never last. Guild Wars 2 maybe is not a sandbox MMO but sure it's fun to play while I can't stand games like TOR, WoW and other sh**.

I think they should go horizontal in progression. New pair of underwear that have not so different stats but unique look. Throw it around the world + more for hard challenges etc. Add "secret receipes" for crafters and stuff like that. It's like when I go to the shop. I don't want shirt that every single idiot have because it's "new trend". I want dam shirt that no one else have.

So... "repeat same content over and over"  but for  different LOOKING gear, as opposed to gear with different STATS (aka, the staple of the RPG genre).

You're just not all there, that's all there's to it O.o

You repeat the content because you have fun doing it.

Repeating for looks or for stats if it isn't fun is still the same trap.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/08/13 6:32:39 AM#67
Originally posted by Vesavius
 

 

Then they should be damned at least sticking to their original vision and having faith in their core concepts.

Selling the game as one thing and then switching to another to appeal to the broadest market will cost them a lot of trust in the long run with their core fans.

It's the perfect way to ruin their brand tbh.

ANet didn't 'switch' technically, least from their point of view.

 

This is a direct quote from ANet in the reddit AMA by Mike O'Brien

"Some progression is OK, but pushing players onto a gear treadmill isn't OK and isn't what the game is about. I don't think [the ascended gear] invalidates the fundamental concept that GW2 can have gradual stat progression without being a gear treadmill game."

Sounds too much of a 'have my cake and eat it too' for me but we'll see.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

1/08/13 6:32:40 AM#68

The bigger picture I see is that GW2 positioned itself as a game for people who have been playing PVE MMORPGs for years, and who were tired of the same-old same-old mechanics of holy trinity combat and quest hub hopping.  They did this by changing the combat and pushing dynamic events as PVE content.  B2P monetization certainly didn't hurt this any.

 

I think where it backfired on ArenaNet is that these players both like and expect a gear treadmill as a reason for continued PVE.

 

Good, bad or otherwise, it's now down to a conflict of interest.  Hold true to cosmetic only progression (possibly with very minor stat gains) or open up new gear with new content as a means to achieve it.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  HappyFace

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 25

1/08/13 6:38:47 AM#69

I didn't know having stats progression = harder raids/meaningful PvE. If anything, stat progression is just a cheap way to increase longevity of the game.

 

WoW, RIFT, etc, all have stat progression for the raids but I'm sure 9/10 of you could name 5 easy 'top-tier' raids as quickly as they could name 5 hot girls (or guys... I dont judge) they want to bang.

 

Harder PvE = harder mechanics. it's as simple as that. And meangingful PvE could come purely off completing a difficult boss - not from the loot that drops. I like what GW2 does, really, and can do. If they handle this properly, PvE'rs will have the thoughts of completing PvE because its difficult and fun to do - not because of their .0256 higher attack rating to crit for 3000, when originally they crit for 2995.

 

And don't underestimate the power of cosmetic/show off things. Achievements pretty much proved that players will do stupid things to get something to show theyre better than someone else.  

deathswrdninja Xfire Miniprofile
  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1392

1/08/13 6:39:23 AM#70
Originally posted by dariuszp

I don't understand you people. I see no reason in playing gear based MMO. Why ? Because there is no sense. Repeat same contaent over and over to get new pair underwear so you can do same thing somewhere else for the sake of new pair of underwear ?

WTF people ? This is why themeparks MMO never last. Guild Wars 2 maybe is not a sandbox MMO but sure it's fun to play while I can't stand games like TOR, WoW and other sh**.

I think they should go horizontal in progression. New pair of underwear that have not so different stats but unique look. Throw it around the world + more for hard challenges etc. Add "secret receipes" for crafters and stuff like that. It's like when I go to the shop. I don't want shirt that every single idiot have because it's "new trend". I want dam shirt that no one else have.

Once you have max level and best possible gear statwise, what do you enjoy in the game?

WvW is meaningless, sPVP is shit, PVE (repeating itself by either dungeons or events) with no meaningful rewards? Themepark with no gear-progression (or any progression at all) is even worse than your average Themepark WITH gear-progression/grind, atleast they have a "goal" which is better gear.

"More challenging PVE is reward enough" .. why would i do something for nothing, when i can go play a game that "rewards" my efforts, if i wan't challenging PVE i play Dark Souls and even it rewards my efforts.

 

Clocked some 400hrs in GW2, atleast 50 of those were spent in LA (in full dungeon set i wanted + weapons i wanted) doing nothing, wondering "what now?" .. there simply was nothing more to "achieve".

inb4 "legendary" .. i dont want them, i don't need them.

 

And i never spent a dime on the gem-shop, i leave that digital fluff to those who're foolish enough.

 

 

To answer OP, i think they did so.. they can go either way, but if they go BOTH ways, i don't think the "GW-crowd" will be pleased, if they go the "non-stat-grind" way, they'll probably lose alot of customers. Either way, they'll lose customers.

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4847

1/08/13 6:39:42 AM#71

It's possible. The biggest issue w/ GW2 (aside from the exploits), is that they tried to pander to 2 very different crowds at the same time. As a result the game gets kinda confused in certain mechanics.

When you get down to it, the game is mostly skill-based, with an emphasis on horizontal / cosmetic progression. However, some of the design implementations make it behave more like a linear progression system (ie. the whole lvling system, traits, dungeons). This was something they didn't do in GW1, but re-introduced with GW2.

As a result, it'll be interesting to see what they do going forward.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2676

1/08/13 7:01:58 AM#72

So you guys play games exclusively for the item rewards?

What do those items rewards mean you finally stop playing the game?

Or maybe that is why players keep paying $15 per month for years after they don't derive fun from the game cause otherwise it would mean all that time played was wasted?

What a vicious cycle.

Are the MMORPGers just a bunch of collector addicts and not actual gamers?

"This is boring. Oh wait they give a shiny horse at the end of this boring thing. Lets do it ad infinitum until I get the shiny horse".

"This is fun but no shiny horse, lets go back to do the boring stuff cause of the shiny horse".

Sigh.

Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, King of Tokyo

  DeniZg

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 586

1/08/13 7:11:59 AM#73

Personally, I don't mind vertical progression, but in PVE only. I feel that more content should be available to the ones who invest the more time, effort or skill. It might create elitism, but it will keep people interested and playing. I think that's what made old MMOS  popular and ceased to exist in this genre with e.g. WOW's WoTLK expansion (using WoW for reference).

PVP wise,  I believe that most of us would like to PVP on level playing field BUT to progress our character at the same time.

I think this is where Anet failed. PVE content availalable to everyone (except maybe Arah) and no rewards for PVP, but at the same time gear dependancy in WvW PVP?

I wonder, why didn't Anet do the following:

  1. Normalized gear in sPVP and WvW, with PVE experience gain in sPVP and more WvW rewards
  2. Gated high-level content either through quest completion, player skill and/or availability (think of WoW Gates of Ahn'Qiraj)

 

  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

1/08/13 7:41:49 AM#74
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

So you guys play games exclusively for the item rewards?

What do those items rewards mean you finally stop playing the game?

Or maybe that is why players keep paying $15 per month for years after they don't derive fun from the game cause otherwise it would mean all that time played was wasted?

What a vicious cycle.

Are the MMORPGers just a bunch of collector addicts and not actual gamers?

"This is boring. Oh wait they give a shiny horse at the end of this boring thing. Lets do it ad infinitum until I get the shiny horse".

"This is fun but no shiny horse, lets go back to do the boring stuff cause of the shiny horse".

Sigh.

Don't blame the players when ANet decided to put in a gear grind into GW2.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Raekon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 552

1/08/13 8:10:14 AM#75
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

So you guys play games exclusively for the item rewards?

What do those items rewards mean you finally stop playing the game?

Or maybe that is why players keep paying $15 per month for years after they don't derive fun from the game cause otherwise it would mean all that time played was wasted?

What a vicious cycle.

Are the MMORPGers just a bunch of collector addicts and not actual gamers?

"This is boring. Oh wait they give a shiny horse at the end of this boring thing. Lets do it ad infinitum until I get the shiny horse".

"This is fun but no shiny horse, lets go back to do the boring stuff cause of the shiny horse".

Sigh.

Don't blame the players when ANet decided to put in a gear grind into GW2.

He actually CAN blame the players cause ANet decided to add OPTIONAL COSMETIC "gear grind" and even these can be achieved through at least 3 different ways instead of repeating the same one.

- Karma

- Crafting

- Dungeons

Other mmos have you doing indeed the same thing only so you can be powerful enough to enter a newer area or be competitive enough with survivalability at all.

I have a level 80, doing my dailies with my lowbies to level them, doing some WvsWvsW, sometimes helping with dungeons or doing a fractals run and overly enjoying the game in a casual way, waiting for the January update.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

1/08/13 10:30:59 AM#76
Originally posted by LetsPlayOutside
I too am curious what Anet is going to do to hold peoples attention.....

 

Dosen't matter what they will do, there will always be whiners in whatever Anet is putting into GW2.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  Rohn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3758

1/08/13 10:39:59 AM#77
Originally posted by botrytis

I think all new games will be this way since it seems people have become polarized about everything - it is damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

I would say people have more of a right to complain, if it was a sub game, but it is B2P.

 

The payment model makes no difference.  It's an MMORPG, and should be judged accordingly.

F2P games are also blasted for having poor longevity, and they don't cost anything to get into.

As far as complaining, it's been that way for every game.  Some people like a game, while others don't.  The same shortcomings keep coming up, and GW2 is no different.  It does a poor job of keeping a large segment of players interested long-term.  ANet said the game would be different, and it's not.  It's actually pretty bad as far as longevity is concerned.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2796

1/08/13 10:46:13 AM#78

Easy solution:

 

Make WvW and dungeons a lot more fun.  Then make cosmetic differences for new tiers.

  steelheartx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 409

1/08/13 10:56:16 AM#79

Not sure what could be done to keep the PvErs attention.  The class mechanics themselves would make ading any sort of end raid content almost impossible :(

 

That being said, the game still has alot to offer, and community is still pretty good as well :)

Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  loulaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 826

1/08/13 10:58:39 AM#80
it seems the OP is outdated, i think that this is already solved, they planned this middle tier but not so fast, anyway i would prefer to fix the bugs and add more weapons (hammer for engi f.e.) or adding some usefull staff (lfg feature, save skill sets, some examples.. ) rather adding new tiers, for CASUAL mmo it doesnt need more tiers !

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