Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by InFlamestwo

Don't encourage people to play WoW, Blizzard is not a good game developer anymore. They were when they made Starcraft and Warcraft, now they are immature and rush out half assed content to milk the cow. WoW isn't moving the genre forward in any way.

Titan however is a different story, might become good, except we don't know a thing about the game, so it could be total shit.

WoW isnt moving forward eh? 10+ million people would like to argue that. 

Are you sure it isn't 50 million? or 100+?

The Smedley is strong in you.

Originally posted by Xepo

Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I get from this 

ANet announced they are gonna do something

Blizzard said good idea

ANet years later still working on it allegedly

Blizzard has the system in place.

Everything in the MMO universe is copied from something.  Im not a huge Blizzard fan, but I will say they still have the best combat engine (response time is instant) , and are the best at implementing and perfecting ideas

Guild Wars 2 has does absolutely NOTHING innovative, not 1 thing

 

 

The word innovation derives from the Latin word innovates, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," 

 By definition of the word Anet did much to innovate the MMO world. They changed the concept of combat through more action oriented style with a dodge mechanic. They removed and changed the questing hub system that was standard in almost every MMO before them by adding in dynamic events and completely removing the need for traditional questing hubs where you ran back and forth to for quests. They created an MMO world where almost every zone feels alive and lived in through npc placement, random voice chit chat and aminations/sounds. This alone is missing in so many other MMO worlds where you go outside a zone and see massive amounts of creatures to grind on. Anet made griefing in a gome over resources, bosses, and kills non-existent. No more fighting over a kill or resource. Anet made many innovative changes to the way MMOs function and play. Just because they didn't "rock your world" does not mean they didn't try new things or change ones we are familiar with.

ANET did not innovate they itirated, there is nothing in GW2 that is new to MMO's.... quest hubs, dynamic events, pvp, dodging you name it it has been done in some other MMO is some form or another, Anet just did a Blizzard and polished up it a little.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by Konner920

Originally posted by expresso

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Nevulus

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

 

So Blizzard copied C&C with Warcraft1/2/3, Which spawned DOTA, which was copied by Anet, and now fans of Anet are claiming Blizzard is copying them??? Pot-Kettle-Black

lol bingo. They don't see the irony in it. It's hilarious.

Fixed that for you.

It's not like Blizz isn't in the copy / paste business which I think was the point.  Even if not, Blizz does a ton of copy / paste.  This is most certainly in direct response to the popularity of GW2 and the mobas.  If they had really been interested in integrating it into the game just as an improvement then they could have done so long ago.  They didn't and the timing is telling.

Blizz deserves some criticism.  It doesn't seem like they have a focused design goal anymore.  They seem to be taking the SoE approach of "add it in, bolt it on, and see if it works".  The pokemon pet battles is one of the latest examples of this.  I'm sure they're fun and the moba system probably will be too, but let's be honest about what they're reaching for here and why.

 

cept C&C was relased a year after WC..... but anyway Blizzard are keeping up with trends - they might not be driving them but they sure do know what is hot and what is not and prompty provides their player base with what they want, thats good business no?

To correct you both, not sure if anyone has, Dune and Dune II is where blizzard got the influence for warcraft. As Dune II is essentially the game that actually kickstarted the RTS genre.

Eh warcraft was more influenced by warhammer than anything. Blizzard only used the momentum from westwood to push their own RTS games.

All fine and dandy but all this means is GW is just a copy of a copy of a copy, but they are attacking WoW for being a copy of a copy, it still doesn't make any sense. 

Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

Originally posted by Aori

Eh warcraft was more influenced by warhammer than anything. Blizzard only used the momentum from westwood to push their own RTS games.

All fine and dandy but all this means is GW is just a copy of a copy of a copy, but they are attacking WoW for being a copy of a copy, it still doesn't make any sense. 

The leaders at Anet (and Runic as well among a few others) are the guys who did develop Diablo, Warcraft, Starcraft, and WoW.  They *are* the ones that were there, not the current lot of devs at Blizz.  There are few old guard left there, but most went off to actually create new stuff.

Originally posted by Xepo

Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I get from this 

ANet announced they are gonna do something

Blizzard said good idea

ANet years later still working on it allegedly

Blizzard has the system in place.

Everything in the MMO universe is copied from something.  Im not a huge Blizzard fan, but I will say they still have the best combat engine (response time is instant) , and are the best at implementing and perfecting ideas

Guild Wars 2 has does absolutely NOTHING innovative, not 1 thing

 

 

The word innovation derives from the Latin word innovates, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," 

 By definition of the word Anet did much to innovate the MMO world. They changed the concept of combat through more action oriented style with a dodge mechanic. They removed and changed the questing hub system that was standard in almost every MMO before them by adding in dynamic events and completely removing the need for traditional questing hubs where you ran back and forth to for quests. They created an MMO world where almost every zone feels alive and lived in through npc placement, random voice chit chat and aminations/sounds. This alone is missing in so many other MMO worlds where you go outside a zone and see massive amounts of creatures to grind on. Anet made griefing in a gome over resources, bosses, and kills non-existent. No more fighting over a kill or resource. Anet made many innovative changes to the way MMOs function and play. Just because they didn't "rock your world" does not mean they didn't try new things or change ones we are familiar with.

not a single part of GW2 made me feel like I was doing anything new, everything in the game, I have done somewhere else before.

they took a lot of ideas and polished em up, ill give em a little credit for that, but still nothing new.  I guess calling gnomes Asura is innovative though

you want innovation, go play Asheron's Call 1 and 2, and realize that everything in those games is what triggered what we have today, yet they still did it better

Originally posted by Myrdynn

Originally posted by Xepo

Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I get from this 

ANet announced they are gonna do something

Blizzard said good idea

ANet years later still working on it allegedly

Blizzard has the system in place.

Everything in the MMO universe is copied from something.  Im not a huge Blizzard fan, but I will say they still have the best combat engine (response time is instant) , and are the best at implementing and perfecting ideas

Guild Wars 2 has does absolutely NOTHING innovative, not 1 thing

 

 

The word innovation derives from the Latin word innovates, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," 

 By definition of the word Anet did much to innovate the MMO world. They changed the concept of combat through more action oriented style with a dodge mechanic. They removed and changed the questing hub system that was standard in almost every MMO before them by adding in dynamic events and completely removing the need for traditional questing hubs where you ran back and forth to for quests. They created an MMO world where almost every zone feels alive and lived in through npc placement, random voice chit chat and aminations/sounds. This alone is missing in so many other MMO worlds where you go outside a zone and see massive amounts of creatures to grind on. Anet made griefing in a gome over resources, bosses, and kills non-existent. No more fighting over a kill or resource. Anet made many innovative changes to the way MMOs function and play. Just because they didn't "rock your world" does not mean they didn't try new things or change ones we are familiar with.

not a single part of GW2 made me feel like I was doing anything new, everything in the game, I have done somewhere else before.

they took a lot of ideas and polished em up, ill give em a little credit for that, but still nothing new.  I guess calling gnomes Asura is innovative though

you want innovation, go play Asheron's Call 1 and 2, and realize that everything in those games is what triggered what we have today, yet they still did it better

You see here's the thing. You want me to play Game X in order to get a taste of "true innovation", but conveniently left out the myriad of issues I have to deal with along the way.

- Is it OWPvP? I prefer optional PvP.

- Does it take too much of my time to get anywhere?

- Does it sport a more dynamic quest system?

- Does it even have a quest system?

- Is the combat active, or is this a spreadsheet system?

- Is it based on competition, rather than cooperation?

- Does it look good, considering its age?

- Do I have to pay monthly in order to play it?

- Is it trinity based? WIll my preferred class/build give me difficulty finding groups? You see, I prefer DPS types.

I want a taste of "true innovation". You make it sound so good! But first the game must pass a majority of my questions.

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by Myrdynn

Originally posted by Xepo

Originally posted by Myrdynn

what I get from this 

ANet announced they are gonna do something

Blizzard said good idea

ANet years later still working on it allegedly

Blizzard has the system in place.

Everything in the MMO universe is copied from something.  Im not a huge Blizzard fan, but I will say they still have the best combat engine (response time is instant) , and are the best at implementing and perfecting ideas

Guild Wars 2 has does absolutely NOTHING innovative, not 1 thing

 

 

The word innovation derives from the Latin word innovates, which is the noun form of innovare "to renew or change," 

 By definition of the word Anet did much to innovate the MMO world. They changed the concept of combat through more action oriented style with a dodge mechanic. They removed and changed the questing hub system that was standard in almost every MMO before them by adding in dynamic events and completely removing the need for traditional questing hubs where you ran back and forth to for quests. They created an MMO world where almost every zone feels alive and lived in through npc placement, random voice chit chat and aminations/sounds. This alone is missing in so many other MMO worlds where you go outside a zone and see massive amounts of creatures to grind on. Anet made griefing in a gome over resources, bosses, and kills non-existent. No more fighting over a kill or resource. Anet made many innovative changes to the way MMOs function and play. Just because they didn't "rock your world" does not mean they didn't try new things or change ones we are familiar with.

not a single part of GW2 made me feel like I was doing anything new, everything in the game, I have done somewhere else before.

they took a lot of ideas and polished em up, ill give em a little credit for that, but still nothing new.  I guess calling gnomes Asura is innovative though

you want innovation, go play Asheron's Call 1 and 2, and realize that everything in those games is what triggered what we have today, yet they still did it better

You see here's the thing. You want me to play Game X in order to get a taste of "true innovation", but conveniently left out the myriad of issues I have to deal with along the way.

- Is it OWPvP? I prefer optional PvP.

- Does it take too much of my time to get anywhere?

- Does it sport a more dynamic quest system?

- Does it even have a quest system?

- Is the combat active, or is this a spreadsheet system?

- Is it based on competition, rather than cooperation?

- Does it look good, considering its age?

- Do I have to pay monthly in order to play it?

- Is it trinity based? WIll my preferred class/build give me difficulty finding groups? You see, I prefer DPS types.

I want a taste of "true innovation". You make it sound so good! But first the game must pass a majority of my questions.

In addition to your criteria, which I think are very pertinent questions, I'm curious what either of those two games offered that was really innovative?  What did they offer that Lineage or UO didn't do before or EQ do at the same time?

Asheron's Call- innovations in MMOrpgs

Twitch based combat, collision detection, you could dodge arrows and spells, and you could work with teams to trap people.  Melee combat was location based attack high, mid or low, also could do an extremely fast jab, or a very long swing for more damage.

Armor that actually protected you, not just added to your overall "Armor Class", as well as each piece of armor having 7 different base resitances that could range from poor to unparalleled, you could have a bludgeing set of armor, as well as one that is strong against fire.  This brings to next point

Weapons that didnt just "do damage" I had a fire, acid, lightning, and frost weapon, as well as my traditional pierce, bludge and slash attacks, and it was my decision what type of attack to use, especially if I used life magic in correlation to weaken my target against a specific type.  Mobs for example were strong vs piercing if they had a hard shell (Olthoi) but weak vs bludgeoning.  To my next point

Mobs that were unique to their world, it wasnt goblins, elves, orcs, dwarves, but was every bit as fantasy, we lived in their world, where Drudges, Banderlings, Olthoi, Tuskers, Virindi, and every other mob was unique to their universe.

The Patron System, while eventually turned into an exploitable thing, on the surface was incredible.  The ability to recruit and build a pyramid army underneath you, one that you can supply with gear, pyreal, supplies, and help level, and in turn you receive a %of their exp earned based on their loyalty skill and your leadership skill, which leads to skills.

Skills you actually chose to use and specialize in were your choice, classless wasnt innovative, but increasing your skills was. You had traditional Str, Int, Dex etc, and skills, when you killed a mob you got exp, you then spent your earned exp on whatever skill you wanted to.  Raise that War Magic skill, Bow skill, etc, your choice

Danger, you know like if you die it actually meant something

Open World, yah I know not their innovation, but GW2 cant even do that 13 yrs later

Theres more I am leaving out but this is getting too long

Asheron's Call 2

Their biggest add to the gaming community is the Talent Tree, but one that you actually had choices in, there was no game prior that had this, and no game present that does it better, again you earn exp and you pick your talents and level them as you want

Originally posted by Wolferider
What the hell is a MOBA?

it's like an RTS, except instead of building lots of units, you just control one "hero" character.  Defense of the Ancients is an example.

it's really strange for WoW to have though...  Then again, Blizzard seems to be putting pretty much every genre of everything in the game these days.

Originally posted by Wolferider
What the hell is a MOBA?

play League of Legends for about an hr, or you tube a video

WoW descends further into a "twitch" game. I know PvP is twitch anyway - a sweaty twitch grindfest for people to whom the RPG part of MMORPG means little or nothing. I expect WoW to go full hog and become a cover based shooter by 2014 - and still somehow get labelled an RPG. Not Blizzards fault, all good franchise suffer "feature entropy" and become glorified cover based shooters after a few years. It's what the mindless masses want.

Just had a thought. What can they do to degrade cover based shooters themselves. Maybe degrade them back to "Pong" or "Press the big button when you see the red light flash" reaction games. I reckon if you put fancy graphics around that concept it, would sell millions.

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by ichihaifu
Milkin everything out of the cashcow yo

Well to be fair, there's been a fair amount of comments over the years how stale BG pvp has become. The bigger maps like Alterac Valley tend to be a PvE race with PvP mixed in (depending on how much your team is defending). While other maps are basically just roving packs of people trading points. The two new BGs Blizzard added in MoP are boring as hell too (in my opinion). They added a payload style BG which...doesn't seem to fit, and then the hold the ball type of match, which again seems out of place.

A 3rd person MOBA style bg might be what the doctor ordered to make pvp interesting again. In many ways, that type of map seems more "lorefriendly" opposed to the other types of maps available (with the exception of the large 40 man maps). As long as players don't find ways to bypass the mechanics (aka getting past the "creep" to destroy the base in the first 30 seconds), I might be interested in pvp in WoW again.

lol..

community complains about World PVP, gets BGs.

years later...

community complains BGs are boring.

Ya...imagine that...PVP is boring when you don't have any danger of being jumped while questing or farming. And no thrill of beating the shit out of the ganker who thought he 'had you'.

Originally posted by ChuckNorris_13
what the hell is a moba?

"Multiplayer Online Battle Arena"