It's not just you OP. UO was certainly the greatest mmo I have ever played and baring one or two exceptions, most other mmos are an utter joke in comparison.

It would have been nice if the genre had taken UO and expanded on the whole "online world" theme over the years using the ever increasing technological infrastructure available.

Sadly that wasn't to be. 

It's not just you. It's me as well, and many other players here, though I also include Star Wars Galaxies alongside UO.

What really scares me when I think about this is that Raph Koster was responsible for both UO and Star Wars Galaxies, the only two MMOs I've felt were just what I was looking for. That means there's only one man that has ever gotten the MMO genre "right" for me, and apparently for a lot of others out there, as well.

If only one designer's vision could do things right for all of us longing for his game worlds, what hope is there for this happening again? It's sort of like the World of Warcraft question, where you wonder if there will ever be another game as big as Warcraft because of the new competitive MMO market and its varied audience out there. Maybe there never will be. And what if there will also never be a game like UO ever again, because of the new market and audience out there?

It seems like for many old UO or SWG vets, we're always looking with a tiny hope, a hope that gets smaller and smaller with each disappointment, that the "next" game is just around the corner. The game that will bring this genre back.

But it never comes.

Yet, we keep waiting.

Originally posted by Denambren

It's not just you. It's me as well, and many other players here, though I also include Star Wars Galaxies alongside UO.

 

What really scares me when I think about this is that Raph Koster was responsible for both UO and Star Wars Galaxies, the only two MMOs I've felt were just what I was looking for. That means there's only one man that has ever gotten the MMO genre "right" for me, and apparently for a lot of others out there, as well.

Some studio needs hire Ralph Koster and get him back on back on a MMO project. He may be the only one who can make a proper sandbox MMO. SWG was by far the best MMO ever made and a similar game needs to be made in the modern era. It may not be as big or as profitable as WoW but it will bring back the magic of what MMOs were meant to be.

Originally posted by emperorwings
We only used to use PK'ing to settle any dice roll problems as well as for spaaring. Back when people never used to loot steal unless it was some random. Can't speak for the community of today though. Still, there are ways to prevent your stuff from getting stolen.

That is easy. Just roll your own loot like in the new WOW LFR, or Diablo 3. Ninjaing is not possible because others just can't roll on my loot. Problem solved.

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by Enerzeal

UO forced all types into it's game, not because they had some winning formula but because it was all that was on offer, this created the community that make it so great.

Today if the same game came out, then it still wouldn't be THAT game, because the sheep the wolves used to hunt are now in their own safe havens, it's a great shame, but it wont ever be again, not until some massive leap takes place, and that leap is so niche that no one follows for years, an example would be the first VRMMO.

Ya I mean, people that dont' want FFA pvp probably dont' have a choice but to play UO at that time.  Thus your fun is probably build by other people not having fun.

Of course players had a choice, they could not play UO.  What kind of masochistic player continues playing a game where he's not having fun?

There is not many games to choose back then.  If I do enjoy everything UO have to offer except getting ganked, I can't change to other games, and there's no pve server for UO at that time.

What's funny is all the people complain about UO opening pve server.  They say it segregate the pve and pvp community.  The truth is the only reason the wolf are having fun, because those pve carebear are forced to play with them.

That is the real truth why everygame is either a pve carebear game with instanced pvp or harsh ffa pvp game.  You really dont' find many middle ground since very few masochistic player like to be sheep for the wolf to pray.  (Aka pve player that like to get ganked by pvp player, you really don't find many of them)

Seems to me most of the early titles such as UO, AC, SWG and DAOC were all "very special snowflakes" in their day, with features and designs that are largely water-down or eliminated from modern MMORPG's.

Regardless of the reasons for the changes, if a person really fell in love with one of those early titles they appear to be doomed to endless search for the real successor to that first game and it never happens, because almost nothing today is similar to the early games.

It really isn't so much that it was their first game, in my case DAOC was actually my 2nd, but I've been searching for its replacement ever since with no success.  I went on to enjoy other special MMO's, such as EVE, and would love to see a similar design that let me swing a broadsword instead of shooting a laser.

The problem is that ´we´ are just smarter now and have expectations.

When I played UO.

1. It was not uncommon to have 12-24hr maintainence on Tuesdays

2. It was not unccommon to have 2-5 day rollbacks ( they actually had a two week roll-back recently)

3. There was NO expectation of new content.  There would be a year without anything changing.  They would add little things like an orc invasion and ´orc masks´ and  bolas and that would be it for 6 months.  

The problem with a sandbox game now is that anyone who has played a WOW type game would feel bored very quickly.  the game does not throw stuff in your face to do.. 

The other big problem is that ´we´are much smarter about class/gear balance.   Players used to classes being balanced within 5% of each other like in WOW would never be able to play in a game where a Hally-mage was 50% better than anyone else for a full year.

But mostly it would be about boredom.  nobody would want to play a game where you went into a dungeon for no reason other than to kill crap.

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by Enerzeal

UO forced all types into it's game, not because they had some winning formula but because it was all that was on offer, this created the community that make it so great.

Today if the same game came out, then it still wouldn't be THAT game, because the sheep the wolves used to hunt are now in their own safe havens, it's a great shame, but it wont ever be again, not until some massive leap takes place, and that leap is so niche that no one follows for years, an example would be the first VRMMO.

Ya I mean, people that dont' want FFA pvp probably dont' have a choice but to play UO at that time.  Thus your fun is probably build by other people not having fun.

Of course players had a choice, they could not play UO.  What kind of masochistic player continues playing a game where he's not having fun?

Ask SWTOR players.

Originally posted by PsiKahn
I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

Originally posted by laokoko

Originally posted by Enerzeal

UO forced all types into it's game, not because they had some winning formula but because it was all that was on offer, this created the community that make it so great.

Today if the same game came out, then it still wouldn't be THAT game, because the sheep the wolves used to hunt are now in their own safe havens, it's a great shame, but it wont ever be again, not until some massive leap takes place, and that leap is so niche that no one follows for years, an example would be the first VRMMO.

Ya I mean, people that dont' want FFA pvp probably dont' have a choice but to play UO at that time.  Thus your fun is probably build by other people not having fun.

Translates into "Laokoko never played UO". Trust me, even playing as a sheep you had fun. Wise sheeps learned to be prepared.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by PsiKahn
I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

I wouldn't necessarily suggest "unfixing" those mistakes, but one might ask whether there could be new ways of rectifying them.  I'm not a fan of instancing for example, so I would rather see some creative thinking as to how to give players what they want without disrupting the continuity of the game world.

Originally posted by Azrile

Originally posted by PsiKahn
I never played  UO but it seems like it had a lot going for it and a fair number of problems too.  That said, it does seem like developers kinda learned the wrong lessons from UO and in doing so lost some of what made it appealing.  That said I think the WoW haze is starting to wear off and people are asking developers to go back to the drawing board and come up with some new innovative ideas, some of which seem to harken back to aspects of UO that were never fully extrapolated.

A lot of the things people hate about current games goes back to things that needed fixing in UO.  Trust me, you unfix those mistakes and people will be even more unhappy.

Big example.  Instanced dungeons.

In UO, you could fight your way through a dungeon to a spot where you knew a certain type of monsters spawned...after 20 minutes you get there, only to find 10 other people all insta-killing those mobs as soon as they spawn for hours... worse yet was when it was a tamer that had no risk of ever dying.

Stealing was always ´great´ in UO.  You always had to be aware of those around you.. but don´t worry, if you caught someone stealing from your backpack ( your silver vanquishing weapon).. you could always chase them for 10 minutes, maybe kill them, and open their backpack and find... only your weapon....  you go back to the bank,  5 minutes later the rogue was there again, stealing the same item..  you could chase him and kill him 99 times out of 100... and gain nothing... but the 1 time he got away, your item is gone.

In UO you could do something about those campers. Plus the world was so vast there was always something else to do that was comparable. I know it may have sucked depending on the type of player you were, if you ran into campers, but at least the world felt active and alive as a result.

And stealing was great. If you were stolen off of often then that just meant you never learned your lesson lol. Man, they usually didn't get to far from me when they did manage too nab something. Plus, I learned a lesson by getting runes to uncommon areas near a bank so that a theif couldn't even reach me. I dunno, just seemed like common sense....

Its just your opinion that instanced dungeons are good. Most people who are playing these games haven't even had the opportunity to enjoy a game that is open in the same way DAOC or UO was. So no, I don't trust you. I just think you are going to have some people who stick with instanced dungeons, and some that will absolutely switch over to the seamless world when they see the different type of benefits that kind of game provides.

I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

Originally posted by Luftwaffen
 sad part UO ruined itself trying to be soemthing it was never intended to be !   i would play UO still to this day if they had a UO classic server  but it wont ever happen 

This sums up how I feel also.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

yep I agree. I don't like MMOs any more. I like VWSs.

Ok, so, let's all make crafters on Lake Superior. 

We just need a boat, some cloth, a runebook or two and we're good to go.

Who's in!!??

I've often blamed it on my age(ing) but no game has ever been as fantastic as UO for me. And I didn't even play Pre t2a!

Might've been the fun times in Teamspeak, fighting in Buc's Den, or hanging out at West or East Brit Bank after Trammel came.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

I think its time to say it. UO is not an MMO. With the direction pretty much every other MMO has taken, I don't feel it's right to call UO an MMO. So from now on its a VWS (Virual World Simulator) oO. 

yep I agree. I don't like MMOs any more. I like VWSs.

Does that mean games like Second Life. :( 

Originally posted by meddyck
Substitute "DAOC" for "UO" and your post would describe me pretty well. I think for some players there's just one game that works perfectly for them, and they always feel disappointed when playing other MMOs because those newer games in smaller or larger ways are different than their "perfect" game. I keep trying new MMOs hoping that I'll find one that comes close enough to DAOC that I'll be able to enjoy it for a long time, but so far none has come close. There's just certain things that have become standard in the genre especially post-WOW that just don't work for me. I expect it's the same thing that you or anybody else who fell in love with an older MMO before the genre became homogenized in the mid '00s feels.

Ah, the Golden Age of MMOs. :)