Originally posted by Fearum
Your talking about quanity over quality. Hyundai vs Mercedes. Just because you have a billion cheap ass cars does not take away the value of a good car with more features.

Having driven both, I'll take the Hyundai.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

50 cents a day for ONE MMO. What about if i want to play 10? Just keeping track of which one i have a sub is a pain.

Personally, there are enough fun F2P that i don't see a reason ever to pay for a sub, and i probably won't.

No one in their right mind is going to play 10 MMOs at a time. An adult with a job and a life is going to be capable of playing 2 or 3 MMOs realistically. When you want to try a new one you simply stop the sub on one of them. Easy breezy beautiful cover girl.

Originally posted by uidCaustic

Originally posted by Fearum
Your talking about quanity over quality. Hyundai vs Mercedes. Just because you have a billion cheap ass cars does not take away the value of a good car with more features.

Having driven both, I'll take the Hyundai.

if you really have driven both, then you'd drive anything instead of a hyundai...  though mercedes tend to be a bit boring to drive generally, their the sort of car your grandad might drive, a vauxhall astra on the other hand.. 1.8i convertible.. now isnt that worth paying that bit more for

Originally posted by Consequence

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Consequence

I do not mean to be condescending, but I know this will come accross that way. If you find a game you like that costs $15 a month and you cannot afford that pricetag, then you should not be gaming. You should be out looking for a job. For the price of a movie you can spend hours every month playing a game. In fact, for a lot of us, it works out to a few cents per hour per month. If you cannot afford that, or are too young to be able to afford it, then you need to be either out job hunting and put your hobby on the backburner until you can, or go back to school and  make yourself more productive.

 

Gaming is a luxury hobby. If you cannot afford that luxury, then you dont do it. I like Porches, but I cannot afford 1. Does that mean Porche should start selling them for less? No it means I should work harder to make more money.

 

I see WAY to omany entitled gamers that want things for free neglecting to recognice that very simple fact of life...nothing is free.  

 

 

Except, what if you want to play more than one MMORPG? 

In my case I freely pay $45.00 a month for 3 subs to EVE, but what if I want to try another title or two.  That 15.00 a month can add up, where as if someone were to offer an older title like DAOC or AC1 at a discount rate like 5.00 a month, I might be encouraged to give it a go.

I agree, you need to pay for quality games, but I can understand why some folks might want a lowered fee, perhaps based on a tier system like I recently saw for ArcheAge for players who want to limit their committment.

 

You are missing my point entirely. 

 

WANT has little to do with it. CAN has everything to do with it. If you want to play a game but cannot afford it, then too bad ,so sad. There is a great deal of humility in a person who wants but knows he cant have.

 

You do not have a right to 3 subs to EVE. You may have the ability because you have enough cash. But you arent entitled to anything.

 

This is what I am talking about tho, I find it hard to believe anyone who works hard for a living would take the attitude " I WANT to play multiple mmos and have multiple accounts so I should be able.  The reason I say this is becuase that is a spoiled childs way of thinking and not a working persons way of thinking.

Sigh, and perhaps I was not precise in my terminology and so did not convey my point correctly.

I currently pay 45.00 a month in EVE sub fees because I am able to and it is worth the money to me to do so.

If you are a developer trying to encourage me to try your new (or old) game, there's a couple of ways you might try to encourage me to either cancel my EVE subs and replace them with your game (many have done so over the years) or convince me to spend more money on top of that figure. (which has also happened, with my monthly maximum for MMO's at abouit 75.00 or so as I recall)

Or, you could try offering a lower value sub, which would actually be more enticing to me than a F2P offer, because I generally associate F2P with "not worth the time".

Start me off on your game at 5.00 a month, for perhaps 10 hrs playtime max, and I might give it a try and if I like it, decide to up my investment to a full 15/month sub or perhaps cancel the subs to some other title.

So in the end, it's really up to the developers to figure out how they're going to get a piece of my disposable income, and a lower value sub fee might be one possible way to accomplish that task.

Truthfully, I could give a care about "wanting" to play another MMORPG, I generally only play one title at a time, regardless how many subs I have to it.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

50 cents a day for ONE MMO. What about if i want to play 10? Just keeping track of which one i have a sub is a pain.

Personally, there are enough fun F2P that i don't see a reason ever to pay for a sub, and i probably won't.

No one in their right mind is going to play 10 MMOs at a time. An adult with a job and a life is going to be capable of playing 2 or 3 MMOs realistically. When you want to try a new one you simply stop the sub on one of them. Easy breezy beautiful cover girl.

if your playing 10 MMO's then your not really having fun in any of them, hence the flitting from game to game, if none of them is fun enough to warrant prolonged attention then its easily replaced by, yet another f2p game, after a while you would probably forget which game had what features, because none of them were memorable enough for you to consider playing for longer periods of time.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by uidCaustic

Originally posted by Fearum
Your talking about quanity over quality. Hyundai vs Mercedes. Just because you have a billion cheap ass cars does not take away the value of a good car with more features.

Having driven both, I'll take the Hyundai.

if you really have driven both, then you'd drive anything instead of a hyundai...  though mercedes tend to be a bit boring to drive generally, their the sort of car your grandad might drive, a vauxhall astra on the other hand.. 1.8i convertible.. now isnt that worth paying that bit more for

Considering I have driven both, I'll take the Hyundai.  In this case, my wifes Hyundai... I'd prefer a 2013 Nissan Armada though.

I would gladly pay $15 or $50, if people made something worth paying it....

If you want to play 10 games at once, sure, it isn't for you probably, or you have to choose which ones that are free or cheaper.

For me, I would rather play 1 MMO that makes me not want to play any other MMO for most the time i play it, and I have played 5 that held my attention for over a year, and 2 that did for multiple years (got about 4-5 years out of each, in streches).

While I play that 1 MMO, I am not opposed to buying a RTS, FPS game that is a buy and play, no extra cash...But for my MMO enjoyment, I prefer 1 game....If I am playing more than 1, that means they are not a good quality MMO with depth.

Games, even with a $15 sub, are about the cheapest form of entertainment you can find, going to 1 movie that is 90-120 minutes long cost that much. I really just don't get the outcry, atleast from people that are supposed to be adults with a job, children without jobs, I get.   I think free trials should come at launch, to avoid people wasting money, so they can decide if they want to support something...But if you are paying for 10 MMOs, I would say that is crazy on many levels, and could see the point, but most people from my experience play 1-2 MMOs at a time, then throw in other games without a sub traditionally.

I guess its a moot point for me atm, as I wouldn't pay $5 for most MMOs out right now, let alone $15.  I wouldn't play most of them for free, even if they got rid of their cash shop....

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by alkarionlog

let me do this crazy idea ok? keep it 15 a month and stop all CS and any monetizing you put in games and maybe I will stop thinking this genre golden age is long gone.

 

most of you guys don't give value to your own money and that is ok, but now since we have so many fools spending over $50 a month on cash shop items and then we don't have games to play anymore, that is when start to be my problem.

 

also its funny, games nowaday have so many graphics they don't even spend time on gameplay, I don't doubt is sometime we will only watch CG films and not play the game anymore. then why we will say its a game?

What do you mean that people here "don't give value" to their own money? This is a very shitty statement. Just because someone wants to spend $50 in a cash shop doesn't mean they don't value their money. Perhaps they just have a little more disposable income then you... You should not insult people who spend money in cash shops. I mean, it's really none of your business in the first place. And don't give me that bullshit that people who spend money in cashshops are ruining the game for others. They're not. In a lot of cases, they are keeping some of these games from dying. 

 

You don't like the cash shop? Ignore it like I do. But don't insult people who chose to use it and tell them they don't value their money. P.S - no one cares if you think the "genre golden age is long gone". Lot's of people are still playing mmo's and having a good time. 

 

People need to stop assuming that just because they are misreble, everyone is misreble. Fuck. 

Very well said.   I think if there is one thing we can all agree on, it is that there are an awful lot of miserable people on these forums.

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

There are already F2P, no sting attached MMOs. I am not sure what a $5 sub will accomplish.

In fact, it is not the money, but the hassle of having a sub .. and feel like i am wasting money if i don't play. No commitment F2P solves that problem.

Yes, 50 cents a day, what a fucking hassle and painful commitment 

Personally, I'd much rather have a high quality P2P that keeps me coming back for more, than settle for some mediocre to subpar disposable "F2P" that relies on the unreliable by nature "whales".

50 cents a day for ONE MMO. What about if i want to play 10? Just keeping track of which one i have a sub is a pain.

Personally, there are enough fun F2P that i don't see a reason ever to pay for a sub, and i probably won't.

How can you find time to play 10 mmorpg's?  I found trying to juggle 2 to be a herculean task.

By playing each a little? It is not like i need to devote myself to any games. If i feel like it, i will play for 2 hours, then not for the next two weeks. Given there are so many MMOs out there, it is not that hard.

Try it yourself sometimes.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by dave6660

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by nariusseldon

There are already F2P, no sting attached MMOs. I am not sure what a $5 sub will accomplish.

In fact, it is not the money, but the hassle of having a sub .. and feel like i am wasting money if i don't play. No commitment F2P solves that problem.

Yes, 50 cents a day, what a fucking hassle and painful commitment 

Personally, I'd much rather have a high quality P2P that keeps me coming back for more, than settle for some mediocre to subpar disposable "F2P" that relies on the unreliable by nature "whales".

50 cents a day for ONE MMO. What about if i want to play 10? Just keeping track of which one i have a sub is a pain.

Personally, there are enough fun F2P that i don't see a reason ever to pay for a sub, and i probably won't.

How can you find time to play 10 mmorpg's?  I found trying to juggle 2 to be a herculean task.

By playing each a little? It is not like i need to devote myself to any games. If i feel like it, i will play for 2 hours, then not for the next two weeks. Given there are so many MMOs out there, it is not that hard.

Try it yourself sometimes.

Originally posted by Onomas

By playing each a little? It is not like i need to devote myself to any games. If i feel like it, i will play for 2 hours, then not for the next two weeks. Given there are so many MMOs out there, it is not that hard.

Try it yourself sometimes.

 

What's the point then? 2 weeks in between game time? Rather work on 1 or 2 then juggle 10 two weeks apart lol.

The point? To have fun? To have variety in gaming experience? To sample as much content as possible? don't you know that humans are variety seeking animals?

And you use the phrase "work on 1 or 2" ... i don't "work on" games. I have fun with them whenever, and whatever i want.

I am fine with $15 a month.

When I was younger I found a way to make the $15 a month, I am now older and the $15 a month is unnoticeable.

Originally posted by Traugar
If a game is worth 15 bucks then people will pay it.  If not then they won't.  The issue is the developers keep making such shallow games that aren't worth paying for.  If a game has some true depth to it then I won't have time to be playing 3 or 4 games at the same time.  

Totally agree with this. This is a good reason why i dont support subscription mmos. The game publishers are so desperate to make quick money  that they push developers to make games that are not good enough for a sub (any price sub).

On the other hand, I, like the OP said, prefer to have a variety of good games to play on my free time. Not just one. That said, even though $5 is still a money barrier, i would be able to sub more than one game that i like at that price (still, if its worth the sub).

Originally posted by vandal5627
I'd rather pay the 15 dollars a month and get everything then have developers find ways to gouge you for money.  Some of those cosmetic items in these cash shop games cost more then the sub fee itself and that's just crazy.

You make it sound like you don't have a choice. Actually i am 100% for expensive cosmetic items in cash shops. I don't need them. And if a whale wants them and want to subsidize my games, so much the better.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Onomas

 

What's the point then? 2 weeks in between game time? Rather work on 1 or 2 then juggle 10 two weeks apart lol.

The point? To have fun? To have variety in gaming experience? To sample as much content as possible? don't you know that humans are variety seeking animals?

And you use the phrase "work on 1 or 2" ... i don't "work on" games. I have fun with them whenever, and whatever i want.

Yes, Narius. You are not unique in this regard; we all game to have fun. Don't get so nitpicky over words. It's just his use of language.

Also, he most likely doesn't actually juggle with his video games

Instead of pandering to the horrid misinformation that exists in the consumer base regarding the requirement for subscription fees, why don't we inform people instead?

MMOs do NOT require sub fees to operate. Sub fees have - time and time again - been proven to actually be MORE COSTLY to players than a B2P option. It does NOT cost Blizzard £200 a year per player to make 4 content patches, so why do they charge £200 a year? "To keep the servers up". It wasn't until the fourth year of WoWs life that Blizzard said they'd ONLY JUST spent $200 million on WoW, whilst they reported profits of $1 billion+.

So my two cents here? I'd rather not be exploited to line the pockets of greedy profiteers and investors.

I will NOT pay a subscription fee. Ever.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by vandal5627
I'd rather pay the 15 dollars a month and get everything then have developers find ways to gouge you for money.  Some of those cosmetic items in these cash shop games cost more then the sub fee itself and that's just crazy.

You make it sound like you don't have a choice. Actually i am 100% for expensive cosmetic items in cash shops. I don't need them. And if a whale wants them and want to subsidize my games, so much the better.

 Good for you, you like cash shops i don't.  I honestly don't care what you like or don't but calling people whales, that's not very nice.

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by vandal5627
I'd rather pay the 15 dollars a month and get everything then have developers find ways to gouge you for money.  Some of those cosmetic items in these cash shop games cost more then the sub fee itself and that's just crazy.

You make it sound like you don't have a choice. Actually i am 100% for expensive cosmetic items in cash shops. I don't need them. And if a whale wants them and want to subsidize my games, so much the better.

 Good for you, you like cash shops i don't.  I honestly don't care what you like or don't but calling people whales, that's not very nice.

"whales" is a standard industry term. What is not nice about it?