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General Gaming  » Sony is trying to commit suicide for some unknown reason.

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125 posts found
  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1952

1/06/13 4:46:18 AM#61

Poeple will find a way to reset this and nothing Sony could do about this. Even if they have a way of discovering it they can not then start to ban users considering the sale of second hand items is not illigal even if it is against the EULA.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2012/07/04/curia-digital-distribution/1

In fact this whole thing might even not be allowed in the EU. However have not kept up with this case so not sure if they has been an other ruling by now regarding this

Originally posted by adam_nox

Having the game bound to one owner ruins their collectibility.  It also screws over players who choose to rent over buy.  That's like expecting people to buy every movie they watch.

 

 

I expect there might be special rental edition of the games in questions...the offcourse cost a hell of a lot more to buy for rental companies

Originally posted by Purutzil

Honestly I'm in some forms for this... though my issue is those extra profits go to the publisher, not so much the developers who do all the hard work and give the great games. I always disliked Ebgames for the fact they do take away from money hard working game designers get due to Used games. In a way I wish you could control where the money went to for purchases and provide a platform in which the people who create games can profit from it more. Stores should promote buying new games rather then selling old ones and the producers should NOT be raking in a majority of the profits, particularly if they are attempting to push games solely for profit which unfortunately many are (big case in point, EA). 

 

I think though my 'ideal' would be quite hard to accomplish, though perhaps there can some way to promote this type of growth. In a way Indie games do have this benefit already as it is though its not really explored in terms of having a 'physical' title to launch with. 

 

Game publishers do it to themselves. I do not mind buying an indi-game first hand because the prices of an indi-game usually is in line with the product you buy. However with publishers you in general just pay 50-60 euros. Regardless of the quality of the game and it's duration. Take homefront. When trying to find the price of it at release I came across this

http://www.fudzilla.com/games/item/22153-homefront-price-drop-not-supported-by-thq

THQ, the publisher actually complained about the prices drop. A price of 50+ dollars for a game that only last 5-10 hours and with a crappy multiplayer game. the gameplay was oke and the story really nice and bugged on the consoles it seems. but how can a game like that be worth the same amount as let's say COD? Where people spend 500+ hours playing the campaign and multiplayer? 

Instead of limiting second-hand sales they really need to check there own payment models and not be lazy and just put the same price on every game. 

  Cod_Eye

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/09
Posts: 1010

1/06/13 4:53:46 AM#62

As much as I understand their reasoning, and have no sympathy to retail outlets like Game Ltd for pushing 2nd hand software before new, because 2nd hand products have a larger profit margin.  Companies like Game pay very little for games from people that want to trade or sell their games but sell nearly new title for £5 less than the new copy.  They also take all discs out of the box and end up scratched or damaged and end up being of second hand quality anyway, so because of their policy I avoid them as much as I can.

What i'm interested to know is, if they go ahead with this, what happens if I buy a new machine? Do we re-register every game, is there a long process to go through to have the new machine accept the software? or are we all forced to buy a new copy?  If its the latter I can see a very big back lash coming, and multiple claims against Sony.

I don't particulary like console gaming even though I own an Xbox 360 and a WII, I'm always on the PC as it feels so much more comfortable and natural to play games.  So this new implimentation of coding discs to hardware won't effect me yet, how long before they apply this technology to pc's remains to be seen.

  Coman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 1952

1/06/13 5:03:42 AM#63
Originally posted by Cod_Eye

What i'm interested to know is, if they go ahead with this, what happens if I buy a new machine? Do we re-register every game, is there a long process to go through to have the new machine accept the software? or are we all forced to buy a new copy?  If its the latter I can see a very big back lash coming, and multiple claims against Sony.

It's registered into the disc. Not into the machines. The disc has no way of knowing you got a new machines or using that of a friends. Or did I misread it?

  User Deleted
1/06/13 5:06:10 AM#64
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by RedMachine72

Just read this article and was wondering, how many people would still support Sony if it happens?

www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/report-new-sony-patent-blocks-second-hand-games?utm_source=Targeted%20Blasts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking+News:+Sony+Discs+Patent_11145_587933_587940&utm_content=6232486

I for one will not as I buy a lot of my games second hand. Hopefully they won't do this as they would lose out completly to Nintendo and Microsoft. Unless Microsoft does the same, then Nintendo would be loving it.

Microsoft is working on doing the same thing. It's going to hurt console players and hurt sales but won't affect PC players considering we are use to it by now. 

Console gamers will buy many games without to much concern because they know they can always trade it in if they don't like it. They aren't as comfortable with what PC gamers go through and the only reason we are is because we've been dealing with it for years. 

 I don't think it will affect primary sales much at all. People who would buy new games will still buy them.  Probably be the death of many game shops though, who make a lot of money by buying and selling second hand games.

  Zetsuei

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 249

The one and only power

1/06/13 5:16:14 AM#65
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by RedMachine72

Just read this article and was wondering, how many people would still support Sony if it happens?

www.ign.com/articles/2013/01/03/report-new-sony-patent-blocks-second-hand-games?utm_source=Targeted%20Blasts&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking+News:+Sony+Discs+Patent_11145_587933_587940&utm_content=6232486

I for one will not as I buy a lot of my games second hand. Hopefully they won't do this as they would lose out completly to Nintendo and Microsoft. Unless Microsoft does the same, then Nintendo would be loving it.

Microsoft is working on doing the same thing. It's going to hurt console players and hurt sales but won't affect PC players considering we are use to it by now. 

Console gamers will buy many games without to much concern because they know they can always trade it in if they don't like it. They aren't as comfortable with what PC gamers go through and the only reason we are is because we've been dealing with it for years. 

I tried re-reading what you said and each time I kept scratching my head. I haven't been a console user for years, but I own a lot more games on PC than I ever did on console becuase they go on sale for dirt cheap very often. So when you say we are used to not re-selling our games you say it as its a problem.  If anything I feel sorry for console users. Always being gauged for high prices and rarely seeing a good deal on games. I just wonder if consoles will still charge full price when they eventually go digital and offer no deals until the game has been our for a year or more.

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4734

1/06/13 5:16:23 AM#66
Originally posted by Coxel
That is illegal in the USA.   They might be able to enforce that elsewhere but here we do have a right that protects us from such measure and has been upheld repeatedly by the supreme court.

I don't know what you are talking about but if you agree to buy a game that works only on 1 machine that's your choice.

The only thing you can do is refusing to buy the console and the game, but there is no law in the world that can forbid a publisher to bind 1 game to 1 machine.

Personally I think that this will incentivate Piracy, since they will find a way to crack it , they always do.

  jimdandy26

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 559

1/06/13 5:20:31 AM#67
The first segment here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3oaeF0xsE does a solid job of breaking this down.

I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

To exercise power costs effort and demands courage. That is why so many fail to assert rights to which they are perfectly entitled - because a right is a kind of power but they are too lazy or too cowardly to exercise it. The virtues which cloak these faults are called patience and forbearance.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

1/06/13 5:27:29 AM#68
Probably the best way they could handle it, is if  the games were linked to a specific account rather than piece of hardware, and there was an option to pass ownership of a game to another account either for free, or for a small charge perhaps, it would also negate the problems where games are linked to a specific piece of hardware, and that unit has to be replaced because of damage etc. it would mean though that in order to use a console, you would have to load a password protected profile.
  Alberel

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/09
Posts: 1121

1/06/13 6:02:11 AM#69

If they ever do this (and I'm honestly not sure if they really will) it'll just do what every form of DRM has ever done: it'll just increase piracy. It won't be long before someone else manages to manufacture RFID chipped discs with some kind of crack to circumvent this.

Just look at the PC gaming scene, where DRM has been stuffed down our throats for years now. Steam is probably the only widely accepted form of DRM (i.e. account bound serial codes but you can acces them from any machine). All of the others have generally been cracked within hours whilst many are genuinely inconvenient for paying customers (hello always-on internet connection required) encouraging them to use a cracked copy instead.

The ONLY way I can see this working is if the RFID chip is registered to your PSN ID and not that specific machine. That way you could play it on any console (even a friend's) if you log in... exactly like Steam.

It'll still be cracked with dummy RFID chips as soon as the first such game is released though.

  Oberholzer

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 497

1/06/13 6:22:35 AM#70
I understand why they're trying this. I don't agree with it but I understand. I really didn't have a problem with them doing the thing with redeemable codes to experience the online content but if someone buys a disk I don't see where they can tell them not to sell it. If physical disks go away and maybe the price of games come down some to reflect the lack of producing them, shipping them etc. then maybe they have a better shot. 
  Smoey

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/05
Posts: 551

1/06/13 6:26:37 AM#71

This will just lead to more console piracy.

 

The repercussions of this is that Games companies will see NO money from purchases (DLC is still bought by people who get 2nd-Hand games).

 

Also, what happens if I buy one game to play on two consoles. I buy a single player game once for both me and my other half. I will then have to spend double the amount to play the same game? Hell no. I want to take my game round a friends for a LAN?... I then have to take my console too as I can't play on his console?

(\ /) ?
( . .)
c('')('')

  allendale5

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 125

1/06/13 6:43:23 AM#72
I want to own something when I pay for it. That is the inferred agreement, when I go to the checkout stand at a retailer and pay them their asking price for a product : that they are GIVING it to me in exchange for the currency tendered.  What I choose to do with it is my own business.  I could buy a new frying pan and, if I so choose, decide to hang it on a tree in my yard.  I don't want the store coming back to me to protest and reclaim their product or cite any misuse.   To me, selling an unharmful product and then regulating what I can do with it in my own home is paramount to NOT selling the product.  It's a rental.  And if it's a rental or lease, then I expect to pay rental prices : 2 bucks.
  hpy7871

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 14

1/06/13 6:48:17 AM#73
My guess is the game tag will be linked to your psn account and as long as you are logged into your account with the original disc it will work on whatever console you use even if it is a new console or one belonging to a friend
  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 493

1/06/13 6:51:11 AM#74

Well first of all this won't be 'illegal' in the US. As pointed out by others PC gaming and other media actually already does this.

The industry knows pirates will circumvent any efforts they uses to stop them. But they can cut out one of the means at which their games lose money.

Game Stop could be in more trouble than Sony, but Game Stop's already started adapting to this rumor and have for the last 2 years. Have you noticed the number of DLC / Cash Cards they started selling? Not as huge of a mark up gain on their end, but it'll keep the company around.

I'm more surprised that Sony and Microsoft will release any disks at all. I'm rather certain digital downloads will be their focus and I bet Sony and Microsoft will release their systems with game streaming in mind even if it's not a feature availiable at launch.

That said this could be a win for console gamers; because Steam will be releasing a system. The big 3 will have to compete against prices on Steam. Then they'll all compete with one another.

a yo ho ho

  iamrta

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/11
Posts: 164

1/06/13 6:59:17 AM#75
DRM? Welcome to a PC gamer's world. No sympathy from me :P
  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

1/06/13 7:00:37 AM#76
Originally posted by atuerstar
Originally posted by HeroEvermore

This is a good thing in my opinion. With pirating is rampant as it is I 100% support this. Want to play a game? Demo it. Want to play more. BUY IT!!!! Thus leading to more money to the companys that make the games we love.

 

I for one fully support this.

Yeah not many are seeing this for what it really is....the end result of piracy and only buying used games. Spend your entire life trying to ensure games developers go out of business to save yourself a buck you have to expect ridiculous countermeasures to come into play.

 

Sad that it may make honest buyers lives more difficult as a result.

 heh only the reult of piracy u dont think sony hasnt wanted the rental buisness dead for years ? SAY GOODBY TO  games you can play with NO internet to me i should be able to sell what i own period. or charge rental prices not 70 dollars for a game !

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3567

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/06/13 7:58:56 AM#77
Originally posted by allendale5
I want to own something when I pay for it. That is the inferred agreement, when I go to the checkout stand at a retailer and pay them their asking price for a product : that they are GIVING it to me in exchange for the currency tendered.  What I choose to do with it is my own business.  I could buy a new frying pan and, if I so choose, decide to hang it on a tree in my yard.  I don't want the store coming back to me to protest and reclaim their product or cite any misuse.   To me, selling an unharmful product and then regulating what I can do with it in my own home is paramount to NOT selling the product.  It's a rental.  And if it's a rental or lease, then I expect to pay rental prices : 2 bucks.

That only works when those who sell things to you, don't own the politicians.  Since they do, the law is what ever those owned politicians say that it is.  You or I may not like that, but the politicians control the enforcer class, and as long as they do, they get their way.

  superniceguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2277

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

1/06/13 8:06:12 AM#78

I have been buying a lot of games from Steam this year, but have only been ones I have played before and I want to play again and again, and try and make a policy of not paying full price for games, and just wait for the Steam sales. RAGE costing £3.24 is well worth it. If I bought that game at launch and resold it, I would lose more than  £3.24. However I have bought only 2 games this year at full price as digital downloads - XCOM and Far Cry 3.

I do however buy LOADS and LOADs of console games at launch for £40 or whatever, but that is because I know I can resell them. I certainly will not be buying games for £40 if I can not resell them, I will do the saem as I do with Steam, wait for them to get to about £5 or less and then buy them.

SSX got released about this time last year, and on the UK Xbox Live Marketplace, it costs £49.99 / about $80, yet on the US marketplace it costs $29.99 / about £19

I certainly not be paying £49.99 for a digital game, no matter what it is.

Blocking 2nd hand games will kill these consoles in the future as retro machines. It is nice to go sift through ebay, and search out games you missed for the SNES, N64 etc. In 10 years time, you will not be able to do this with the PS4 (or whatever they call  it)

It is fine having PC games blocked, as my current PC can still play a lot of old PC games designed for Windows 95/98, but a new console means having more consoles just play the old games, and to get a new console if you do not have the room you sell it, but if 2nd hand games are being blocked then you can not sell, so now once you finish a game and no longer want to play it, and can not sell it, it now gets put in the bin? which makes buying games in the future a complete waste of money.

Panzer Dragoon Saga may cost about £200 to buy, but you can resell it again for about that price, or maybe more.

With the recession still raging on, and game becoming more and more mediocre, blocking 2nd hand games on consoles will kill cosole gaming. If Bioware had not gone to EA and broke up, and still releasing awesome games, I would buy one of their games at launch for £50 even if it could not resell it, but now that the founders have left and they are making mediocre games, I will not, unless maybe there are a tonne of reviews rating it 95-100%

 

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

1/06/13 8:21:15 AM#79

Here is what you do:

Have a profile that can be downloaded to a flash card type storage device to take with you if you bring your game to a friend's house.  Also have a method that allows you to transfer your rights to another person for a fee (say, 10 bucks).  This way ownership can be transferred and Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo gets a share to give to the game developer.

  Avarix

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/22/12
Posts: 285

1/06/13 8:30:33 AM#80
They can state that the savings will make it to the consumer all they like. It's nonsense. You will still be charged $60 for a new game. Look at e-readers. I am still paying $8 for a book even though it no longer has to be printed and circulated. Don't fool yourself, this is strictly for the company wallet, it's not for your benefit.
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