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Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » If you scam you will be punished is a lie, scamming allowed in GW2

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193 posts found
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18344

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

1/05/13 11:10:23 PM#141
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

"The discrepancy between what we know is possible and what we currently have to choose from is beyond disappointing" - GeezerGamer
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1564

1/06/13 4:44:23 AM#142
Originally posted by colddog04

Ehh... that sucks. They don't have a COD option and so stuff like this happens if you trust other people.

 

What is the character's id?

Exactly. I do not think any other company would react differently. Bad people happen but one must take care of himself-

BTW, agree on SWTOR. :-))

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3545

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/06/13 5:48:34 AM#143
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

For every action/inaction there is a consequence.  People that do not exercise good judgement, aren't being responsible for their actions. 

That doesn't justify the actions of the scam artist in the least. 

But it also doesn't excuse the lack of good judgement on the part of the scammed.

That may be difficult for some in the modern world to understand, and accept, but its the way the world works. 

  pedrostrik

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 400

1/06/13 7:07:22 AM#144

i was scamed 1 time in BC WoW , and blizzard made nothing, after that never tried any business without AHouse, bad people is everywhere and in this game , holy jesus,

Another example, yesterday those germans from dzagonur big zerged us from behind, when a battle for a small tower between UW and Far shiverpeaks was quite the same numbers, so its only a game but a lesson either, bad people is always bad people, no matter what!

Dzagonur only wins between 2:00 o'clock  and 9:00 , at normal time and with the same numbers they are always loosing, so bad guys don't win all the time.

  magecu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/07
Posts: 14

1/06/13 8:47:41 AM#145
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

[mod edit]

The blame should go only on the perpetrator.

But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim.  That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.

If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.

But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.

With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.

Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case.  Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.

As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they  are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.

And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.

A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.
  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 8:56:35 AM#146
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xAPOCx
 

LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.

And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?

I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?

That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.

How about this, when someone is wronged then I blame the criminal. When somene is wronged because of bad decisions on their part, then I blame the criminal and I then call negligence on the victim.

You think a family who leaves their kids with known, violent crack heads isn't going to be questioned by the judge when something horrible happens?

Shame on me? Well, I suppose that's what you would say when you think people can act however they want and never take responsibility for their actions.

 

I find this responce to be very funny after reading your other posts in this topic. Its funny because your refering to the victim here and not the crimial. Proving my point.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3545

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/06/13 8:58:40 AM#147
Originally posted by magecu
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

[mod edit]

The blame should go only on the perpetrator.

But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim.  That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.

If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.

But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.

With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.

Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case.  Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.

As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they  are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.

And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.

A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.

Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions.  No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that. 

A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand.  We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.

The player in question should have known better.  But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist.  Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience.  Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.

  lathaan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/02/04
Posts: 464

1/06/13 9:03:03 AM#148
naive people make me sick. i mean it. the world isnt a bad place because of bad people, but because of naive people that fall for bad people. its far easier to handle bad people than naive people.
  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 9:05:05 AM#149
Originally posted by Cursedsei
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xAPOCx
 

Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.

 

"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."

"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"

"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"

 

Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.

 

 

 

The problem is you are not understanding a thing.

In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.

It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.

However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?

In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.

But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?

Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.

If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.

Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.

 

LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.

And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?

I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?

That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.

Just using his example of the woman, who mind you has had her place of residence broken into THREE times, but at what point does personal responsibility stop coming into play? One time, yes she did leave the house open yet it should be enough for her to learn better. It happens a second time thanks to the same reason? It's negligent of her now. Three times all because she doesn't feel like going through the extra bit of work to lock her house up? Gross negligence on her part. At some point personal responsibility must come into play, specially when she has prior knowledge that this results in a bad outcome.

Think of it like this. I hold out a red and blue stick, both do the same thing (whatever it might be). I then inform them that the red stick isn't safe to touch though because it has a short, or some other reason that will more than likely hurt them. They grab it once. They go ow, give it back to me. Then they grab it again, and again.

 

Instead of actually reading the posts at hand, you absent-mindedly jump to white-knight the OP while completely ignoring the fact that not a single person here is advocating that the alleged scammer shouldn't be punished. So instead of just jumping on someone with some baseless, inane accusation and assumptions, try bothering to really read the posts.

Try being rude somewhere else. Perhaps you should try reading ALL the posts in this thread before opining your mouth. Damn near everyone is addressing the "stupidity" if i may use that word, to discribe the actions of the victim and hardly anyone is acknowling the criminal. This is MY ONLY POINT! That the masses will blame the victim first before the actions of the criminal.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 9:11:08 AM#150
Originally posted by bookworm438
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by xAPOCx
 

Such a shame that this is the view our society takes in maters like this. The criminal isent to blame, its the victims fault.

 

"What a shame that girl got raped. Well maybe if she wasnt dancing all sexy in the club she woundnt have been raped."

"What a shame that guy got robbed and shot. Well maybe he shouldnt have pulled his wallet out to pay for gas"

"What a shame that old woman got scammed. Well maybe if she wasnt old and had some sence she would have seen that guy coming"

 

Honestly i dont know what to say about some of you people. Since when is the victim the one on trial and not the criminal.

 

 

 

The problem is you are not understanding a thing.

In a perfect world no one would be hurting anyone.

It is never a good thing when someone is wronged or someone is hurt. Can you understand this? Do you get this? I hope so. I don't believe most people here, myself included, would disagree.

However, when someone is hurt or slighted or wronged when they make bad decisions then it's still a horrible thing but one must ask why they thought they were immune?

In a perfect world a woman should be able to walk down the street and never once be hurt, insulted, slighted or even bothered.

But do we live in a perfect world? Are there not evil people about? And because of this don't we take precautions to mitigate some of the disasters that come our way?

Too many people claiming victim when, if they took a few minutes to think, they wouldn't be victims. you want to lump it all together. The "wrongness" of another being hurt is still wrong. No matter what. But when someone has not done their due dilligence, has not thought of the consequences of being in a bad area, trusting a stranger with their money or their loved ones, then that's an issue.

If you trust your kids with someone you know such as a family member, and something horrible happens then that's a travesty. If you let a complete stranger into your house, with no one recommending them, to look after your kids and something horrible happens then not only is that a travesty but negligence.

Do you understand this? If not then can I assume you live in that perfect world where people can walk down the street and not ever be hurt. And if you do then PLEASE let me know because I want to live in that world too.

 

LOL. Its you who doesnt understand. Its not the perfect world but how we conduct ourselves when someone is wronged. Your quick to blame the victim and not the criminal.

And i dont know what i said that prompted you to say RED. Another missunderstaning on your part?

I know people dont always take the necesary precautions to make sure people take care of themselves but is that any excuses to absolve the criminal of any wrong doin because the victim was in the wong place at the wrong time?

That was what i was trying to convay in my previous post. That it seems like everyone is prosecuting the victim and not the criminal. Shame on you.

.... Nobody here thinks the person who did the scamming shouldn't be punished. In fact, we don't even know if the other person WAS punished. It could very well be that Anet banned them or suspended them without advertising it to the world. The only thing Anet told the OP was that they basically couldn't force the other party to hand over what they owe the OP.

We all agree that the scammer should be punished. We are also saying that the OP is also somewhat at fault for negligence on his/her part. The OP knew s/he was playing in a video game that lacks player-to-player interaction AND that lacks COD in mail. OP should have been more cautious about trading with another player s/he had never met before. And the OP knew that the TP was the only actual safe way of trading with other players.

The OP should have never sent the full amount right away for the item, especially to some stranger. I thought the general rule of thumb for such trades is you send a fraction of the amount, and then deliver the rest when the other person delivers the item. 

No where did i say that the victim shouldnt encur some responsibility in the part they may or may not have played in said inncident, im saying that we as a whole seem to WANT to blame the victim more so then the crimial. And its evident through out this thread.

  magecu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/07
Posts: 14

1/06/13 9:13:07 AM#151
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by magecu
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

[mod edit]

The blame should go only on the perpetrator.

But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim.  That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.

If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.

But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.

With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.

Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case.  Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.

As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they  are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.

And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.

A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.

Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions.  No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that. 

A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand.  We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.

The player in question should have known better.  But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist.  Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience.  Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.

And why is that?

Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.

Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.

As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.

By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of  scaming as "normal" practice.

 

Could she have done something different? Yes.

Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.

Should we focus on her actions? NO.

We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.

What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.

Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.

But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.

 

Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.

Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 9:17:25 AM#152
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 9:20:20 AM#153
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

For every action/inaction there is a consequence.  People that do not exercise good judgement, aren't being responsible for their actions. 

That doesn't justify the actions of the scam artist in the least. 

But it also doesn't excuse the lack of good judgement on the part of the scammed.

That may be difficult for some in the modern world to understand, and accept, but its the way the world works. 

And thats a shame.

  magecu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/07
Posts: 14

1/06/13 9:23:04 AM#154
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

True True! :)

  xAPOCx

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 749

1/06/13 9:25:35 AM#155
Originally posted by lathaan
naive people make me sick. i mean it. the world isnt a bad place because of bad people, but because of naive people that fall for bad people. its far easier to handle bad people than naive people.

 

 

  jonrd463

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 593

1/06/13 9:30:44 AM#156
I think John Wayne said it best. "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  magecu

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/07
Posts: 14

1/06/13 10:10:43 AM#157
Originally posted by jonrd463
I think John Wayne said it best. "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."

Well as low as my opinion on John Wayn is, that doesn't help much.

And if you quickly check his wikipedia profile, I wouldn't really call him a person fit to give life advice. :)

  jonrd463

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/24/09
Posts: 593

1/06/13 10:18:57 AM#158

Doesn't matter who said it, really. If one is the type of person that needs to wear a helmet everywhere he goes, life's going to be a bit of a challenge.  Maybe in this case, the quote from the poet Thomas Tusser is more appropriate: "A fool and his money are soon parted."


And if you quickly check his wikipedia profile, I wouldn't really call him a person fit to give life advice. :)

What a coincidence. I wouldn't really call Wikipedia fit to give reference information. ;)

"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2443

1/06/13 10:21:30 AM#159

Obviously the scammer should be punished.

Additionally the OP shouldn't get the 50g back.

The mail system doesn't exist to conduct trade - it exists to send stuff to friends/guildies/secondary accounts.

 

Reading the ticket/report, checking the chat log and the transaction report, then banning the person and having it approved will probably take a couple of man hours, so $20-50 spent to solve a problem that originated in the fact someone wanted to save a tax over in game money with no value (you can't legally turn the in game money into real world currency).

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3545

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/06/13 10:27:38 AM#160
Originally posted by magecu
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by magecu
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Gamayun

Zoyita, I'm really sorry for what happened to you. 

First that a scammer took your money, and such a large sum at that.

Second that the reply from the support was so disappointingly useless and dismissive.

Third that you have to suffer all the accusations from the forum posters here for bringing attention to the issue about unpunished scammers. 

 

I hope you can still get some enjoyment out of the game. It's definitely not the response I'd expect from support.

IMO scamming in general is wrong, it's against the agreement, and it should be punished.

 

----

I have to say that all the posts here that can be summarized as "(Scamming is wrong) BUT IT'S YOUR FAULT SO YOU SHOULD SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES" make my head hurt. No wonder the communities in MMMORPGs are as bad as they are. Paired up with and intensified by how communication on internet works, this thread really seems a fine example of how the victim-blaming culture functions. You know, the culture where it's always good to blame the victim first, and if the conversation goes on, add that of course the perpetrator is bad too, but the victim, look at what the victim did!!! 

I'm glad there are at least a few with a different attitude (thank you for exisiting), because, good grief, based on the mentality in the replies, I can't say I'd feel SAFE going out on a drink with many of the posters. 

And since this thread has become in great part a call to the OP for some serious self-reflectation, let me do you the same favor: please, take a few minutes to reflect on what you are doing right now, and what kind of ideology you're spreading. 

 

TL;DR:

OP, I'm sorry about the whole situation.

Scamming is in general bad. 

Dear fellow forumgoers, please, get your shit together.

The victim shares the blame, particularly if they put themselves in harms way without taking reasonable precautions.

That's life, get used to it.

 

 

[mod edit]

The blame should go only on the perpetrator.

But as a side result the consequences are also shared by the victim.  That sharing of the consequences is the reason why the victim is a victim.

If we desire to be a fair and inteligent civilisation, we should strive to minimize the consequences that the victim feels and take care of the perpetrator in such a way that the "crime" won't be repeated.

But it seems that is not what many posteres in this thread strive for, nor what arenanet advocates.

With the kind of aporach some posters in this thread have, the perpetrators are encouraged to continue with scams and other ilicit behavior. After all even if they are found, the balme is set on the victim for being naive and they are not punished for their behavior.

Well that obviously is not a inteligent behavior from the comunity is just as naive and stupid as some posters are trying to portray the victim in this case.  Instead of makeing an example of the perpetrator the comunity just let it slide and gives him more free hands to continue with the kind of behaviour. Not realising that in this way they increase the chances of geting scamed themselves.

As such anyone here that said its her fault, that what anet did was right, is at least as stupid and naive as the victim, since they  are helping scamers to thirve in the comunity they frequent.

And just because you weren't scamed yet or because you take care to be "safe", it doesn't mean that at some point someone won't abuse some blind spot you on't even know to have. The more scamers are in the game the better chances are that something like this happens. And as you advocate, you can only blame yourself for not being careful enough.

A very narow and short sighted view on the issue I would say.

Well thats certainly the PC approach. We've seen the results of that all around us... People ARE responsible for their own actions, as well as their inactions.  No number of laws, regulations or Dev hand holding is going to change that. 

A "civilized" society would require focus on individuals, that includes their responsibilities as well as their rights. The two go hand in hand.  We've seen how things turn out when they are seperated.

The player in question should have known better.  But that doesn't excuse the actions of the scam artist.  Lets hope they learned a valuable lesson from this experience.  Real life lessons like that are seldom that cheap.

And why is that?

Well becasue of shortsighted responses like this. Instead of trying to make a better world, the focus is on how best to cope with the results of the issues.

Like curing hte symptoms instead of the illnes.

As a decent person she didn't do anything wrong, the one that did something wrong here was the perpetrator.

By focusing on what the victim shoul ddo to avoid such issues you enforce the validity of the curent state and of  scaming as "normal" practice.

 

Could she have done something different? Yes.

Did she learn anything helpfull for the problematic socitey that is building in GW2? Yes.

Should we focus on her actions? NO.

We should focut on the person that was abusing the system.

What this guy did isn't any better than Gold selling, Abusing the crafting system, Abusing the Karma system and so one.

Anet did ban thousands of players on those account as it was hurting their Gold Lion Trading Post.

But in this case nothing becasue the only one hurt here was a players and even this is a very shortsighted assesment.

 

Again such posts ar just as stupid and not thought out as using the GW2 mail system as a trading system.

Actualy even worse as the long term effects are fare wors in case of such posts than they are in case of geting scamed like that.

 

We've seen the results of people trying to create a "better world"... It almost always ends up the same way.  One of the reasons (of many...) for that, is they tend to take an ends justifies the means used to achieve their ends approach.  Look at US foreign policy as an example of how that turns out...

Instead of focusing on the world, how about focus on the individual people?  The player in question made a bad judgement call. They got scammed as a result. I've never excused the action of the scammer.  They committed fraud.  Hopefully, unlike some ideologues, the player in question will learn from their experience.

Trust, like respect is earned. Strangers have done nothing to earn that, thus they should be granted minimal trust. Unlike the belief of some, strangers aren't just friends we've not met yet... ^^

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