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News & Features Discussion  » [General Article] City of Heroes: Profitable or Not?

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252 posts found
  gipper36

Novice Member

Joined: 10/16/11
Posts: 26

1/05/13 2:56:39 PM#161
it was a failure to attempt the sale of cov for 80 mil that prompted the closure.they (ncsoft),didnt get what they wanted so decided to close.BOYCOTT NCSOFT cause they will do same to your loving game.koreans are all about the almighty dollar!!
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/05/13 3:12:35 PM#162


Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".


What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it?

** edit **
And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Sukiyaki

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1300

1/05/13 3:35:08 PM#163
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

It's often a case of "profitable enough".  They'd rather spend their money elsewhere I guess.

 

But you have to call BS on the statement that they chose notto sell it because the buyer couldn't maintain the quality CoH players came to expect.  How is shutting down the game permanently a better solution for the players?

Ask anyone ever trying a MMO run by gameforge or gpotato.

Most rather wish they never had played it in first place.

And those are actually even likely candidates who would make an offer for a minor blimp game like CoH, with plans to turn it into a poorly supported, poorly hosted, poorly managed, poorly upkeept and P2W cashshop infested cashcow ought to be slaughtered and bleeded to dead before closing it down 2 or 3 years later either.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6676

1/05/13 3:50:58 PM#164

Looking at public financial records for any company is rather ludicrous.  Financials sent to tax agencies are far different and reflect far more relevant values than those released to the public.  So your corporate rep basically lied through his teeth using funny numbers.   

As to attempting to sell the property, when has NCSoft ever tried to sell anything?  Right never.  Tabula Rasa would still fetch a nice profit in the current market, yet it sits in limbo.  

You have to wonder why some stockholders don't sue to at least get some profit from these properties.  The longer NCSoft holds on to them the less they are worth.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/05/13 3:53:54 PM#165


Originally posted by Ozmodan
Looking at public financial records for any company is rather ludicrous.  Financials sent to tax agencies are far different and reflect far more relevant values than those released to the public.  So your corporate rep basically lied through his teeth using funny numbers.   

As to attempting to sell the property, when has NCSoft ever tried to sell anything?  Right never.  Tabula Rasa would still fetch a nice profit in the current market, yet it sits in limbo.  

You have to wonder why some stockholders don't sue to at least get some profit from these properties.  The longer NCSoft holds on to them the less they are worth.




It's the part where they lie about profits that gets them sued, not the part where they keep an IP because they might want to come back to it later.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5818

1/05/13 3:59:21 PM#166
Originally posted by Hoplites

City of Heroes was profitable.  Was it profitable enough?  That is why it went towards the freemium model IMVHO, or more precisely it was the catalyst for such a change.  The freemium model proved to generate a lot of monies, and thus created the basis for the freemium model used for Lineage 2 NA months later. 

City of Heroes in my guestimation was shut down because it simply wasn't a Korean MMO.  Simply as that.  Lineage 2 NA profits margins are far fewer than CoX but it stills remains.  The impact of shutting down L2 NA would severely effect confidence with investors for the Asian market where L2 is still a powerhouse.  The L2 brand name would be tarnished so they let it be.  Not convinced?  Look at the shutting down of L1 NA to show that confidence in L1 took a nose dive after that happened.

So, yes we have a right to boycott any NCSOFT game they publish just like they have a right to turn off the switch to any game.

Don't support a publisher like NCSOFT if they choose to have a myopic view of only catering to the eastern market.  They have proven that they are killer of MMOs in the western market and that infamous legacy you can't run or hide from.  More specifically you can't turn the switch off as it will always be there.

Boycott?  What do you think that is going to do?  They fired you and aren't concerned about your revenue.  If you don't play any of their other games then you have absolutely no real leverage for a boycott.

They could shut down L2 in the west.  They shuttered Lineage which is far more profitible globally than L2 is and no one batted an eyelash.  There was no nose dive in confidence by Asian gamers.  Lineage is more profitible now than most western games with WoW being an exception.  I seriously doubt Asian gamers give a damn what we're whining about over here.

So you want to boycott every publisher that has shuttered games?  What games do you plan on playing?  You're ruling out EA, NCSoft, and SoE.  That leaves you with WoW and some niche indie games with no more lifespan guarantee than anywhere else.  And you're asking the rest of us to essentially give up our hobbies because you're bitter.  I don't see that happening.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5818

1/05/13 4:04:34 PM#167
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Looking at public financial records for any company is rather ludicrous.  Financials sent to tax agencies are far different and reflect far more relevant values than those released to the public.  So your corporate rep basically lied through his teeth using funny numbers.   

As to attempting to sell the property, when has NCSoft ever tried to sell anything?  Right never.  Tabula Rasa would still fetch a nice profit in the current market, yet it sits in limbo.  

You have to wonder why some stockholders don't sue to at least get some profit from these properties.  The longer NCSoft holds on to them the less they are worth.

There are other considerations to IP sales than just revenue generation.  There is licensed technology, patents, copyrights, and technology sharing that they likely don't want to reveal.  On top of that it's not just the inherent value of the game they might consider but the difficulty and cost in building the game and licensing those patents.  Essentially NCSoft has already done the hard part and to sell that could give a leg up to competition in a very competitive market.

Our company has sold some IP before and, in hindsight, we probably would have been better just holding on to that tech than leveraging our competitors in a better position for a few dollars.

Curse you AquaScum!

  WildFire15

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 12

1/05/13 4:12:59 PM#168
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Ozmodan
Looking at public financial records for any company is rather ludicrous.  Financials sent to tax agencies are far different and reflect far more relevant values than those released to the public.  So your corporate rep basically lied through his teeth using funny numbers.   

 

As to attempting to sell the property, when has NCSoft ever tried to sell anything?  Right never.  Tabula Rasa would still fetch a nice profit in the current market, yet it sits in limbo.  

You have to wonder why some stockholders don't sue to at least get some profit from these properties.  The longer NCSoft holds on to them the less they are worth.




It's the part where they lie about profits that gets them sued, not the part where they keep an IP because they might want to come back to it later.

 

They haven't returned to Tabula Rasa or Auto Assault so they arn't likely to return to City of Heroes. All they can really use it for now is saying 'we own X franchises' to fool investors into backing them because they arn't really removing competition by keeping it locked away. Most people played City of Heroes because it was different to 99% of the MMO genre and with the large black mark they've put on their reputation with how they dealt with the shutdown, those players very definatly arn't playing their other titles.

Out of all the games they've shut down, CoH seems to be the only one that could make a successful return, but I doubt it would if NCsoft were behind it as there's now too much bad blood which isn't going away any time soon.

As for the investors, I doubt they can sue just on that but I am curious as to what they'll ask after this 'press release'.

  Ozmodan

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6676

1/05/13 4:15:43 PM#169

Well the basic tenet to remember here, don't expect to play NCSoft titles for long, they will shutter the game as soon as they lose their popularity.  I can still play my first avatar that I created in UO in 1997.  There is a growing list of NCSoft titles that that cannot be done anymore.  Certainly a consideration for what games you do purchase and play.

One of the reasons I did not purchase GW2.  

  Desirsar

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/06
Posts: 71

1/05/13 4:41:53 PM#170

Investors?  Sue?

 

Why is no one bringing up the fact that all of NCSoft was recently sold?  CoH was closed because its small margin was bringing down the value of the company.  Close it, and it makes the price for the whole company higher to the buyer.  Any fan of wrestling would notice this and point it out to you, it's why Time Warner closed WCW before the merger with AOL.  (If only they'd realized that AOL as its own product would die in three years...)

 

Anything contradicting this is NCSoft trying to win over former customers or anyone paying attention to the media so they won't avoid their products in the future.  I was even going to overlook the Tabula Rasa thing because the devs butchered that game by trying to go too many directions with it, but this is beyond forgiveness.  I have a five year old thread in the LFGame forum that I bring up almost every year - if NCSoft is the first to make the game I ask for in that thread after five years of searching, I still would not touch it.

  WildFire15

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 12

1/05/13 4:49:31 PM#171
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".


What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it?

** edit **
And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.

 

City of Heroes in it's current form was solid but it had it's far share of flaws. the combat system needed a bit more adding to it, the world map needed to be utilized a bit better and a few zones needed merging as there were too many of them.

Some of the recent updates, such as the re-jigging of Atlas Park and Mercy Island, not to mention some of the 'area of effect' attacks Praetorian enemies had that forced you to keep moving around the battle field were steps in the right direction, but what they really badly needed was a fresh engine that wasn't clogged and difficult to use like the 10 odd year old engine they were using.

My best thought as to why NCsoft turned down a sequel was that they simply didn't appreciate or understand that Super Heroes are popular in the west. They have their eyes mostly focused on the Korean market with a desire to make an international smash hit and CoH was very much a niche that had potential they couldn't see. They can't have totally missed the fact CoH only really had word of mouth advertising and was still going strong, so even a little bit of advertising could have gone a long way.

But it does seem their complete misunderstanding of this niche product led Paragon to lose faith and ask to buy themselves out. From there on, I'd think NC's misplaced sense of honor took hold and we ended up in this situation.

  ammonj

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1

1/05/13 5:15:28 PM#172

Firstly, retention rate.  Yes the figure is month on month.  Further, anything over 90% is HUGE in the industry, like, industry leading level.  City of Heroes had that.  The one and only thing it didn't have was *any* commitment to marketing at all from NCsoft. 

 

Every business in the world has what is called an attrition rate.  No matter how loyal your customers, people's situations change.  They move, they marry, they even die.  Basic business 101 says it this simply: "Any business that is not actively growing its customer base is losing it".  Any and every business in the world must do enough marketing to attract new custom to counter attrition rates or it will die.  NCsoft did no noticeable marketing of CoH at all except in some minimal cross-selling from its other titles that it did advertise and promote.

 

It is an unquestioned and unarguable fact that NCsoft completely failed to even try to grow the game's market, and allowed natural customer-base attrition to reduce market share unchallenged.  Check those facts any way you like, you won't change them.  NCsoft completely fail business 101 in this regard, and one surely has to suspect this was deliberate.  You don't overlook something that basic to all business. 

 

This is why people say that NCsoft did their deliberate damndest to kill CoH.  It is that obvious, and the ONLY question about it is "Why?" not "Did they?".

 

Costs: Paragon Studios only significant costs were the business premises at US costs, and staff at US costs.  These would probably seem high to a company mainly based in Korea.  But they'd seem very low to a company based in Tokyo or Hong Kong, so you would expect most Asian companies to be quite happy with them.

 

80 staff was a ridiculously large number for CoH, and in fact many of those staff were primarily working on new projects such as the new game mentioned, never really contributing to the money-maker of CoX at all.  So while costs for staff were indeed far higher than needed or expected for this game, a large amount of that was in pure R&D for the next generation product (new games).  20 staff would have been more than enough to maintain the game, and even halving the staff to 40 would have meant easy full continuation, plus plenty of new products in the cash-shop every week, as was happening.

 

Again, a fact which is unquestioned and unarguable is that NO attempt was made to reduce staff to reduce costs.  In fact, our information is that a large number of those 80 were only taken on as GROWTH in the 12 months prior to the unexpected closure.  These additional staff were taken on to develop the next generation products, and to help add goods to the cash-shop faster.

 

If a game is at all questionable in income, why would you hire more and more unneeded staff?  The fact that they did so is easily confirmed.  Not only did NCsoft NOT try at any time to reduce unnecessary extra costs, they actively allowed Paragon to grow its costs in ways that did not contribute to the existing profit, and were only working on R&D of future products.

 

Profits:  City of Heroes made around 170million dollars US in its 9 years.  Not bad for something bought for under 8 million, eh?  Even in its final months it was certainly generating revenue of over $10million USD per annum, and this was growing with the further refinement and adoption of the new cash-shop (which doubled revenue after its adoption).  It would have been more profitable if NCsoft were not having Paragon hire more staff to work on R&D that did not directly produce any revenue. 

 

As a professional in online business, with over 18years experience, I can see no possible way that City of Heroes and Paragon Studios were not profitable to at least 3-4 million per year, (unless someone at NCsoft were charging 4 million a year in wages to audit or oversee Paragon).

 

Since annonymity bothers some, then let's put it aside.  My name is Ammon Johns, and I work as an Internet Marketing Consultant.  I speak at International conferences, and my clients are predominently large national and multinationals, including banks, insurance companies, online stores, charities, and portals.  I also work for small local and specialist businesses online.  I've worked for many of the sites you probably know and use yourself.  I don't specialise in the game development industry at all, but I work with every level of internet market.  I am considered a world expert in marketing online.

 

The above are my own findings from digging through many sources, and from using my contacts and network.  That's not to do the big "I am", that's simply to head off anyone asking if I know what I'm talking about.  I will welcome discussion to challenge any of my own findings, just cite your sources and experience when you do so.  Oh, and no anonymity, right? ;)

 
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/05/13 5:47:06 PM#173


Originally posted by WildFire15

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".
What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it? ** edit ** And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.  
City of Heroes in it's current form was solid but it had it's far share of flaws. the combat system needed a bit more adding to it, the world map needed to be utilized a bit better and a few zones needed merging as there were too many of them.

Some of the recent updates, such as the re-jigging of Atlas Park and Mercy Island, not to mention some of the 'area of effect' attacks Praetorian enemies had that forced you to keep moving around the battle field were steps in the right direction, but what they really badly needed was a fresh engine that wasn't clogged and difficult to use like the 10 odd year old engine they were using.

My best thought as to why NCsoft turned down a sequel was that they simply didn't appreciate or understand that Super Heroes are popular in the west. They have their eyes mostly focused on the Korean market with a desire to make an international smash hit and CoH was very much a niche that had potential they couldn't see. They can't have totally missed the fact CoH only really had word of mouth advertising and was still going strong, so even a little bit of advertising could have gone a long way.

But it does seem their complete misunderstanding of this niche product led Paragon to lose faith and ask to buy themselves out. From there on, I'd think NC's misplaced sense of honor took hold and we ended up in this situation.




Super hero MMOs are doing poorly in the West, just like they're doing everywhere else. Super hero movies might be popular and pretty main stream now, but this isn't translating into sales for Champions or DCUO and it certainly didn't for CoH.

Their decision was based on the business, or the performance of Paragon Studios, not their grasp of the super hero genre. Something about the game or Paragon Studios wasn't up to snuff and they closed them down. I'm leaning more towards a lack of confidence in Paragon Studios myself.

The post above yours was important...I didn't know that NC Soft was sold or was being sold. That poster is right...if they're selling the company, then anything weak in their product line would be closed down. CoH may have been profitable, but it was weak. Though, I'm still leaning a lot more towards Paragon Studios being weak and not the game itself. Unfortunately, the studio and the game were one in the same.

** edit **
For everyone talking about advertising, CoH got the same advertising that every other MMO got. The advertising at launch, the advertising for major expansions and the advertising when the game went F2P. I read the stupid comic books at the book store that released with the game. CoH just never took off. It doesn't make sense to keep dumping advertising revenue into a game that just doesn't start.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  WildFire15

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 12

1/05/13 5:57:55 PM#174
Originally posted by lizardbones

 

Super hero MMOs are doing poorly in the West, just like they're doing everywhere else. Super hero movies might be popular and pretty main stream now, but this isn't translating into sales for Champions or DCUO and it certainly didn't for CoH.

Their decision was based on the business, or the performance of Paragon Studios, not their grasp of the super hero genre. Something about the game or Paragon Studios wasn't up to snuff and they closed them down. I'm leaning more towards a lack of confidence in Paragon Studios myself.

The post above yours was important...I didn't know that NC Soft was sold or was being sold. That poster is right...if they're selling the company, then anything weak in their product line would be closed down. CoH may have been profitable, but it was weak. Though, I'm still leaning a lot more towards Paragon Studios being weak and not the game itself. Unfortunately, the studio and the game were one in the same.

 

I don't think any of them have been advertised very well with the exception of DC Universe Online and both it and Champions suffered by simply not being as good as an old game, which likely put a handful of people off CoH. Age likely also factored into NC's lack of desire to advertise it.

I don't think NCsoft is being fully sold, but Nexon did buy something like 12% of the shares from NC's CEO not long before the announcement was made/Guild Wars 2 came out. It might be preparing for a full on sale, in which case we could factor in the idea that City of Heroes wasn't well designed to fit with Nexon's favored business model of pay 2 win (though that might be slightly harsh).

I'm not sure how Nexon might take that huge drop in stock prices in the last few months (something like 2/3s or so down over those months (http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/overview?symbol=036570.KS)). It might play into their hands, they might be playing merry hell over the lose. Guess we'll see how it pans out as I doubt this story will end soon.

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3567

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/05/13 6:17:19 PM#175
Originally posted by gipper36
it was a failure to attempt the sale of cov for 80 mil that prompted the closure.they (ncsoft),didnt get what they wanted so decided to close.BOYCOTT NCSOFT cause they will do same to your loving game.koreans are all about the almighty dollar!!

All business suits are about money... Thats the point of business... ^^  It doesn't matter what country they are from.  But I do admit that any western company that chooses NCsoft as their publisher, given their past record of axing western games, is ignorant and/or desperate.

The CoH game belongs to NCsoft. They are free to set any price they wish to on it.  From one dollar to ten trillion.   Many business decisions are calculated. Some are personal.  Given what I've heard about the NCsoft CEO, both are possible.

Look at NCsofts antics with Richard Garret, and Tabula Rasa. That cost them millions when they lost the US court case.

Now that Nexon is involved, things are likely to get even more "interesting".

  Wraithone

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3567

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/05/13 6:28:09 PM#176
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".


What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it?

** edit **
And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.

 

You (and NCsoft) might turn out to have a nasty surprise about that last one. Some of the people I've run across in regards to this strike me as first order fanatics. The type of people who take something like this VERY personally, carry a grudge for years and years, and are well connected through face book and other such. No company needs that type of bad PR.

These types of things can snowball behind the scenes, until they go viral.  It could impact NCsofts business opportunites in the west (what western company thats not ignorant and/or desperate, would choose NCsoft as their publisher, given their past history?). 

This type of thing needs to be handled carefully, but NCsoft has demonstrated over the years, that they are either ignorant of the differences between the eastern and western cultures, or they simply do not care.  Personally, I suspect its both, given my experiences in Korea.

 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5818

1/05/13 6:31:06 PM#177
Originally posted by Ozmodan

Well the basic tenet to remember here, don't expect to play NCSoft titles for long, they will shutter the game as soon as they lose their popularity.  I can still play my first avatar that I created in UO in 1997.  There is a growing list of NCSoft titles that that cannot be done anymore.  Certainly a consideration for what games you do purchase and play.

One of the reasons I did not purchase GW2.  

http://www.gamedynamo.com/article/showarticle/571/en/EA_Releases_Annual_Online_Server_Shutdown_List

www.gamespot.com/news/ea-shutting-down-online-services-for-12-games-6401956

EA has shut down so many games online component.  That is why I've never played UO or bought into it.

Pretty much I can't play any games because every publisher is shite and shuts down games.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5818

1/05/13 6:44:56 PM#178
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by lizardbones

Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".

What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it?

** edit **
And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.

You (and NCsoft) might turn out to have a nasty surprise about that last one. Some of the people I've run across in regards to this strike me as first order fanatics. The type of people who take something like this VERY personally, carry a grudge for years and years, and are well connected through face book and other such. No company needs that type of bad PR.

These types of things can snowball behind the scenes, until they go viral.  It could impact NCsofts business opportunites in the west (what western company thats not ignorant and/or desperate, would choose NCsoft as their publisher, given their past history?). 

This type of thing needs to be handled carefully, but NCsoft has demonstrated over the years, that they are either ignorant of the differences between the eastern and western cultures, or they simply do not care.  Personally, I suspect its both, given my experiences in Korea.

I agree they don't care and are less likely to consider their customer base when making decisions than some Indie studios.  However, are you prepared to stop gaming, or stop AAA gaming to support the CoH call to boycott?  Or is this just a vendetta against NC and we're going to give the Western and Japanese companies a pass on how they shut down games and treat their customers?

I've been an NC customers since I started mmos with Lineage.  I have a very clear picture of how much they really don't care about their players, especially westerners.  I dont think EA or SoE thinks any more highly of me or fellow gamers either though.  That leaves us with WoW as a choice since Blizz is the only major publisher that comes to mind that hasn't totally shut down any of their games that I can think of.

One real problem I consider is that the west (NA/EU) are so fickle, critical, and willing to trash a game and studio that we have almost zero unity and have weakened our position globally.  We've got higher per capita incomes and money to spend, but Asia and Russia have numbers to make up for that they are becoming the dominant force in online gaming.  We may very well end up in the position where our voice and economic input are the insignificant factor in these decisions.

Curse you AquaScum!

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

1/05/13 7:04:35 PM#179

I can understand the need for explanation about CoH's cancelling, but in the end it comes down to that if a company decides not to fight for a product's success (in their eyes) anymore, there is not much you can do about it as customer.

Customer loyality is something that never played an important role in this industry (no matter what some random marketing or customer relations employee might claim otherwise:p ) Especially with the big companies.

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/05/13 7:39:34 PM#180


Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by Pheonyx

Originally posted by lizardbones It's not a huge mystery. Even if the game was profitable, it wasn't profitable enough. It would be getting steadily less profitable over time too. It doesn't look like there were plans or incentive to create a CoH2 either. They decided to cut their losses before they became losses or when they actually turned from profits to losses and focus on what they knew they could focus on.
Actually, Matt Miller said that they approached NC Soft to do City of Heroes 2, and NC Soft said "No".
What is your point? If CoH was not performing well enough to keep running, why would NC Soft want to bank roll a sequel? The game was never that big to begin with, why would they want to spend a lot of time and effort on it? ** edit ** And how many different accounts are going to get created to argue about CoH? Geez. The game is dead, it's not coming back and NC Soft isn't going to suffer because they closed the game. Get over it.  
You (and NCsoft) might turn out to have a nasty surprise about that last one. Some of the people I've run across in regards to this strike me as first order fanatics. The type of people who take something like this VERY personally, carry a grudge for years and years, and are well connected through face book and other such. No company needs that type of bad PR.

These types of things can snowball behind the scenes, until they go viral.  It could impact NCsofts business opportunites in the west (what western company thats not ignorant and/or desperate, would choose NCsoft as their publisher, given their past history?). 

This type of thing needs to be handled carefully, but NCsoft has demonstrated over the years, that they are either ignorant of the differences between the eastern and western cultures, or they simply do not care.  Personally, I suspect its both, given my experiences in Korea.

 




If there were enough people interested that NC Soft would have to worry about it, the game probably wouldn't have been closed because those people would have been playing the game.

It is true about the cultural differences though...they aren't going to be nearly as worried about something like this as a Western publisher would. Though, I think the only difference would have been in the shutting down of the game. There would have been a month's warning, and an end of game celebration or something similar. Really, that might have made all the difference.

** edit **
I wouldn't get any sort of nasty surprise. Let's say it does snowball and turn into some huge internet thing. How exactly would it affect me? I already don't play any of their games. Their entire operation could get shutdown and it wouldn't matter to me at all, except for being an interesting news story.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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