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General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are MMORPG.com members sandbox players, or all of a sudden people turned their back on Themparks?

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174 posts found
  Doogiehowser

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1939

1/05/13 11:37:46 AM#121
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by ste2000

Well looking at the list of the most hyped MMOs in development the top 6 are Sandboxes.

Popular IPs like TES and Neverwinter can't even match the popularity of Earthrise(what?) and Darkfall, which are old games repackaged.

And the Top spot is taken by a Korean MMO which is not even released in its original country and which might take another 2 years to get to the NA/EU/OZ, how crazy is that?

Is it that the members of this site are actually Sandboxers at heart or maybe people are truly bored of Themeparks (TESO/Neverwinter to name few)?

 

Personally I would pay $15 a month to play the Korean Beta of Archeage.........and I am deadly serious

Why do we all have to be divided into categories? i like to play all kind of MMOS.

Some of us have more refined tastes.

And judging by the lack of retention in games over the last years, "some of us" means "many of us."

Yeah refined taste..rofl!! 

Did you type that while your  nose was pointed towards the ceiling?

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 1912

May the game be ever in your favor.

1/05/13 11:44:53 AM#122

I think it's crazy that there are people that are actually against sandbox MMOs. I mean in sandboxes you can build houses and other structures, and actually change the world around you. You change the world. Not the developers! In themeparks everything is created and changed by the developers.

 

I think being able to impact the world around you in a game makes it that much more immersive and realistic.

Smile

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2170

1/05/13 11:46:10 AM#123
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by ste2000

Well looking at the list of the most hyped MMOs in development the top 6 are Sandboxes.

Popular IPs like TES and Neverwinter can't even match the popularity of Earthrise(what?) and Darkfall, which are old games repackaged.

And the Top spot is taken by a Korean MMO which is not even released in its original country and which might take another 2 years to get to the NA/EU/OZ, how crazy is that?

Is it that the members of this site are actually Sandboxers at heart or maybe people are truly bored of Themeparks (TESO/Neverwinter to name few)?

 

Personally I would pay $15 a month to play the Korean Beta of Archeage.........and I am deadly serious

Why do we all have to be divided into categories? i like to play all kind of MMOS.

Some of us have more refined tastes.

And judging by the lack of retention in games over the last years, "some of us" means "many of us."

Yeah refined taste..rofl!! 

Did you type that while your  nose was pointed towards the ceiling?

I included the little to show I was joking. Lighten up doogie, like you play on TV.

Once upon a time....

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2170

1/05/13 11:57:19 AM#124
Originally posted by Razeekster

I think it's crazy that there are people that are actually against sandbox MMOs. I mean in sandboxes you can build houses and other structures, and actually change the world around you. You change the world. Not the developers! In themeparks everything is created and changed by the developers.

 

I think being able to impact the world around you in a game makes it that much more immersive and realistic.

You could do that in a Themeaprk game, if they had the code.

That's not what makes for Sandbox game play. That particular thing (construction and terraforming the world) would be an excellent addition to ANY game type.

This is a hard issue to explain. But you have to look at the game world as a whole.

In a Themepark game, the game play is "paint by numbers" because of the levels and the divisions caused by those levels. It doesn't matter if you can build a house or bridge, or not. That doesn't change the game play.
 
In a Sandbox game, the world-play is dominant (as opposed to levelling). Economies work, territorial controls work, resources and trade work, all the things that don't work in Themeparks due to the level separations.
Sandboxes are "go anywhere, do anything" game play, where Themeparks are zoned content controlled.
 
That doesn't mean you don't have skill advancement in Sandbox games, just not the world division of content by god-moding level advancement of Themepark design.
 
But construction would tend to work much better in a Sandbox game, just like anything else than the levels and big numbers of Themepark games.

Once upon a time....

  User Deleted
1/05/13 12:05:33 PM#125
Originally posted by ste2000

(...)

Is it that the members of this site are actually Sandboxers at heart or maybe people are truly bored of Themeparks (TESO/Neverwinter to name few)?

My first MMO was a Korean grinder. Then WoW got me completely hooked to the genre. The king of all themeparks!

But now I've outgrown themeparks. The longest I played recently was 3 months, about half a year ago. I'm craving for more to do in my MMORPGs. I have a problem that I like sweet graphics too. More to do aside from combat combat combat, sweet graphics, good quality...I seem to be asking for too much it seems.

 

Personally I would pay $15 a month to play the Korean Beta of Archeage.........and I am deadly serious

I've been thinking about it (and there's an ENG patch I read) but I have way too many games I bought off of Steam I'd like to get into at one point.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2718

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

1/05/13 12:14:33 PM#126
I personally like alot of elements of sandbox games but I prefer the structure and polish of a themepark.  I would say a hybrid is more uto my liking but the game still has to have enough polish and high production quality and be published under a triple-A studio.  No more indie, no more crap, and no more ugly games like Age of Wushu.  I want a WoW/GW2 styled hybrid.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

1/05/13 12:22:00 PM#127
Originally posted by Torvaldr

"Sandbox" is the new "dyanamic event". 

This Year's Bullet Point.

Still, at least we can check off every new game as it's delivered, and for each new game invent a thousand reasons why it sucks.

Situation normal, in other words.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  ste2000

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4726

 
OP  1/05/13 12:55:01 PM#128
Originally posted by DancingQueen
Originally posted by ste2000

Well looking at the list of the most hyped MMOs in development the top 6 are Sandboxes.

Popular IPs like TES and Neverwinter can't even match the popularity of Earthrise(what?) and Darkfall, which are old games repackaged.

And the Top spot is taken by a Korean MMO which is not even released in its original country and which might take another 2 years to get to the NA/EU/OZ, how crazy is that?

Is it that the members of this site are actually Sandboxers at heart or maybe people are truly bored of Themeparks (TESO/Neverwinter to name few)?

 

Personally I would pay $15 a month to play the Korean Beta of Archeage.........and I am deadly serious

I look at your sig: ArcheAge - themepark / sandbox hybrid, TESO - no idea but hopefully a little sandbox in there, EQ III - very sandboxy according to John smedley, GW2 - themepark all the way.

Don't know what is the meaning of your comment.

Anyway I love MMOs, it is my hobby.

I prefer Sandboxes but I don't dislike good Themeparks, I played WoW for 3 years after all.

Themeparks are content driven, while Sandboxes are player driven, that's why I believe Sandboxes suit the MMO format much better than Themeparks.

I am surprised that the Themepark/Sandbox ratio in the MMO industry is 80/20, but I understand that developers goes with the market so if the players buy Themeparks, developers will make themeparks.

The reason why I made this thread is that I notice a big shift in the last 2 years towards Sandboxes (In this site), and I was wandering if the reason is that Thempark players moved to other sites or because MMO player start to understand the appeal of Sandboxes.

I've been always a Sandboxer at heart so I cannot answer my question, I hoped some of the Themepark can confirm that actually the taste of MMO players is really changing.

Smedley that decided to make EQ3 a Sandbox instead of another Themepark is actually rather revealing in itself.

But I wanted to hear it from the players.

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5110

1/05/13 1:02:28 PM#129

Saying that you want to play a sandbox and that themeparks suck is very "in thing to say" right now.

The reality is that no matter what players say most prefer themepark gameplay, and would quit most sandbox games as soon as they hit the grind.

  Thane

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/14/03
Posts: 1864

I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

1/05/13 1:03:10 PM#130
Originally posted by Scarfe
I think the users of sites like this are more sandbox orientated than most. 

imo they still dont know what a sandbox actually is.

they heard it's cool,  and that's why they want it.

 

they got into WoW the same way.

now something else is cool, and they want their mommies to buy it for them, so they can tell everyone at school that they play the next cool thing too.

 

ps: neverwinter is not a sandbox. next theory?

"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5110

1/05/13 1:06:52 PM#131
Originally posted by Razeekster

I think it's crazy that there are people that are actually against sandbox MMOs. I mean in sandboxes you can build houses and other structures, and actually change the world around you. You change the world. Not the developers! In themeparks everything is created and changed by the developers.

 

I think being able to impact the world around you in a game makes it that much more immersive and realistic.

There are many players who find building houses boring and tedious. There are many players who just prefer for all the content to be given to them directly from the devs.

It comes down to time, and most players would prefer to just jump in and play, instead of building up first.

Its 2 types of players, and imo there are simply more gamers than sandboxers.

  insaner666

Novice Member

Joined: 3/29/11
Posts: 18

1/05/13 1:17:06 PM#132

i find this post most dangerous, well

 

Themepark hype games already got released, Elder Scrolls was a sandbox offline game and now is a themepark  Online mmorpg maybe not the best time to do this.

The values for the sandbox games are lower then the themepark previous ones

People that still play the games they like aren't even reading this forum or site

MMORPG gamers has a sad problem....

 

THEY'RE ALWAYS SEARCHING FOR NEW GAMES__ like a vampire always in a hunger for blood.

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2512

1/05/13 1:40:15 PM#133
Considering there have been just about no successful themepark MMOs in the last 8 years, I'd say it's neither all of a sudden, nor is it just this MMORPG.com community.
  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3094

1/05/13 1:43:43 PM#134

It doesn't matter to me what kind of game it is.  If I'm having fun it's a good game...I think people forget that's why we play games, isn't it?

 

^ Croc surfing, not much is more fun than that hehe

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

1/05/13 1:43:50 PM#135

I think the notion on this site currently is that people just want something different already..

 

we've been fed themeparks for the last decade..

  DavisFlight

Elite Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2512

1/05/13 2:00:17 PM#136
Originally posted by tank017

I think the notion on this site currently is that people just want something different already..

 

we've been fed themeparks for the last decade..

Let's call them what they are, WoW clones, which itself is a dumbed down psuedo clone of a flawed game.

  Caldicot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 394

Hobbes was right, Rousseau was wrong.

1/05/13 2:17:08 PM#137
Even though the definition of the word "sandbox" is rather vague, it's a great word for marketing these days. Ironically, the truth is that most people want a good theme park oriented game. There is a huge void to fill there at the moment.

If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  Uhwop

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1649

1/05/13 2:20:56 PM#138
Originally posted by QSatu

This site has been for a very long time in favor of sandbox games. The question is, are those games going to get the numbers of themeparks? I have my doubts. most of them won't reach aaa themepark quality and will be abandoned just as fast as all other games.

besides we all know that people here can't decide what a snadbox even is. Each of those games will lack 1 or 2 "the most importand feature ever" and they will be back to complaining how no one knows how to make good games.

 Isn't this a contradiction, consider "all other games" are those AAA themeparks? 

LoTRO, TSW, ToR, DDO, AoC, WAR. 

Outside of korea there's only been one "major" wastern MMO that was fully a themepark, and that's wow.  No AAA themepark other than WoW has been a huge success with a subscription model, and sandboxes have yet to be really attempted by any AAA developers.

Just because developers have kept trying doesn't mean that it's worked, and that's all developers have been doing sinse 2004.  Trying to make a hit themepark, beause Blizzard did it so it obviously works, even though the genre hasn't shown them any more support then they did in 1999. 

Themeparks, outside of WoW, have not done any better than EVE.  The only other MMO that was able to compete with WoW was a sanboxish FFA pvp mma made by a Korean developer, Lineage 2. 

 

There's no reason for developers to make anything but a sandbox MMO.  Being a sandbox means you have the freedom to do all the same stuff you already do in a themepark.  A themepark is a sandbox minus the freedom, it's just consumable content, structured by the dev to tell you when and were you can do it. 

One of the most popular RPG series of all time, TES, a sandbox.

One of the most popular RPG's of all time, FF 7, which happens to be the most sandboxy FF rpg yet. 

One of the only MMO todays that still uses a subscirption model and continues to grow, EVE; a sandbox. 

Games that all end up Free to Play, basically every themepark MMO but WoW. 

What happens when the most popular themepark focusses more and more on making the game casual and themepark freiendly, millions of subscribers leave. 

The problem is entirely rooted in the western gaming culture and an unwillingness to accept the fact that we've been wrong.  The asian developers are the ones currently getting away from the themepark model and making more sandboxes, and western gamers are notoriously anti asian MMO. 

People in the west spend more money, they tend to be more vocal; it's not suprising it's taken this long and developers in Asia to figure out what's been staring them in the face for the last 9 years. 

Casual, single player freiendly, themeparks do not make great MMO's with longevity.  People do not want to pay monthly to play those games; they wouldn't all be going F2P or closing down if they did. 

Rift doesn't have that many more subscibers than the second MMO to hit the market, UO, and Rift is supposed to be one of the most successful MMO's sinse WoW. 

It's like a sick joke. 

 

 

  Mtibbs1989

Elite Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 2566

1/05/13 2:22:29 PM#139
I really like sandbox games and have become sick of playing themepark mmo's after 10 years. I'm currently playing Age of Wushu and I'm loving it.


Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.

  User Deleted
1/05/13 2:22:47 PM#140

I have a picture that will answer your question perfectly. 

 

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