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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » If you scam you will be punished is a lie, scamming allowed in GW2

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193 posts found
  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 578

1/04/13 5:43:51 PM#61
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by bingbongbros
Originally posted by Zoyita

Sad but true, as the title said. I trusted another player that where gonna sell me ectos for 50gold. 50 gold all i had, sent by mail gone forever. I had screenshots, all the conversation, everything.

Do not trust other people in this game, he had my trust and look what he did. This Arena.net reply.

Well it doesnt have a happy ending you guys will not believe the answer. I didnt even bother to say anything in the official forums because that would get me ban. Here is the answer: Scamming is Allowed on GW2

Hello Zoyita,

Thanks for contacting the Guild Wars Game Support Team.

We understand that some transactions take place in the game world often involve a certain element of trust. A player will need to place trust in another player to fulfill his or her end of an agreement. Occasionally a player will go back on an agreement or act in a less-than-honest manner. Such acts are matters over which we have no control of and cannot take corrective measures. If a player does not live up to his or her end of an agreement we are unable to force that player to do so.

If you have additional questions please let us know.

Regards,
GM Sparse
Guild Wars Support Team

----
I played other games where scammers where punished, i guess not this one. I already have 30G back from the 50G i lost but is sad that someone can be a villain and GW2 wont make justice, just like in the real world where the bad guy win. This just gives me a feeling like ill be playing and feeling everyone is bad around me some kind of sensation i didnt had before, world is already cruel and corrupted why our games have to be to? if someone have the power not politic involved to solve, punish and teach a lesson to the bad guys.

Really...? You want him punished because you are to trusting?  How long have you been playing mmo's?

I learned REAL fast that you do not trust anyone online, not even your own damn friends.  Protect yourself at all times and you will never lose 50 gold like that. 

I used to scam the bejesus out of people in Everquest 1 back in 1999.

This is a shitty way to feel about the people you play with in a game. If you feel like this why even bother playing? Who the hell wants to look over their shoulder all the time.

 

>>>>>> I now see why you are they way you are. Because you yourself are a scammer.

Yeah but it is for good reason.  I don't trust people I don't know personally, and even sometimes not even them.  It is who I am and it protects me.  I play these games because I enjoy them, and I also love to pvp in warzones and such.  I don't mind having to look over my shoulder all the time, I'd rather be ready for anything then be completely caught off guard.

 

I don't scam anymore, I haven't since the EQ1 days.  I started to feel bad so I stopped, and that was over 10 years ago.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1325

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

1/04/13 5:44:28 PM#62
They should really have a trade system other than the TP, but even then scams are possible. Via the TP you pay a tax, but at least you know you will get what you want. It's hard for Anet to olice all the transactions, because he said this and he still owes me from that and etc etc. It would be more trouble than it's worth.

  vzerov

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 120

1/04/13 5:47:42 PM#63

Obviousily scamming is allowed in this game, their reply just proved it. Which means the only single safe way to trade in this game is paying Anet taxes to use the TP.

This is a FACT, you can make it sounds better by saying it in another way like "they dont punish other players for your own fault(be scamed)" , but.....scamming is still allowed in this game.Some might think its good, others dont, plain and simple.

  fiontar

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3694

1/04/13 5:59:56 PM#64
Originally posted by Zoyita

When i was in a party full of people also buying stuff, they where buying mystic coins, lodestones and some other stuff, there was 3 more people doing business. I just hope that people didnt got scammed too.

I dont wish harm to people like bad people does. Good people wish bad things to stop happening and would try to do something about it and also excuse me but so you say smart people that will offer to sell you things knowing you dont have enough money to buy it with 20% tax plus more expensier, is win? so acting bad is good? This is not Dungeon Dungeon keeper, this is Guild Wars 2 and we should be feeling we are heroes to defeat the evil in game not wanting to be the Nightmare Court.

 

Also just for your information in the terms of service:

Source: http://us.ncsoft.com/en-gb/legal/user-agreements/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct.html

("NCSOFT") and ArenaNet, Inc. ("ArenaNet") have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.
While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

I live in USA, NY and robbery, scam and fraud is a crime.
You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.
Even if is a virtual/digital that was mine, my effort, my time and this game is really hard to gain currency if you are a honest player like me.

 

No matter what people say, scam is a crime, cheat is bad, to be a thief is a crime in USA In Europe and in China.

This is why the GM was completely wrong. It's clearly stated that you can not defraud another player and fraud is definitely what occured. Of course, that doesn't mean they have to help you recover your losses, but they definitely should have banned the offending player.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  vzerov

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 120

1/04/13 6:11:05 PM#65
Originally posted by fiontar
Originally posted by Zoyita

When i was in a party full of people also buying stuff, they where buying mystic coins, lodestones and some other stuff, there was 3 more people doing business. I just hope that people didnt got scammed too.

I dont wish harm to people like bad people does. Good people wish bad things to stop happening and would try to do something about it and also excuse me but so you say smart people that will offer to sell you things knowing you dont have enough money to buy it with 20% tax plus more expensier, is win? so acting bad is good? This is not Dungeon Dungeon keeper, this is Guild Wars 2 and we should be feeling we are heroes to defeat the evil in game not wanting to be the Nightmare Court.

 

Also just for your information in the terms of service:

Source: http://us.ncsoft.com/en-gb/legal/user-agreements/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct.html

("NCSOFT") and ArenaNet, Inc. ("ArenaNet") have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.
While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

I live in USA, NY and robbery, scam and fraud is a crime.
You may not violate any local, state, national, or international laws or regulations.
Even if is a virtual/digital that was mine, my effort, my time and this game is really hard to gain currency if you are a honest player like me.

 

No matter what people say, scam is a crime, cheat is bad, to be a thief is a crime in USA In Europe and in China.

This is why the GM was completely wrong. It's clearly stated that you can not defraud another player and fraud is definitely what occured. Of course, that doesn't mean they have to help you recover your losses, but they definitely should have banned the offending player.

Yes, thus the title of this thread is true, they said defrauding other players  is not allowed while it actually is.Thats a lie.

They are not saying they dont have enough evidence to punish the scammer, they are saying they don't want to punish the player.

 

  Threatlevel0

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 165

1/04/13 6:19:41 PM#66
Originally posted by Aethaeryn
Originally posted by Threatlevel0
Originally posted by Aethaeryn
Originally posted by nate1980
Originally posted by Threatlevel0

Do they not have any reliable sort of trading in-game, or CoD mail, other than the Trading Post?   There is no individual direct trading?      If not, that seems like something needed at the very least in the game.   

I don't really see any need to for anyone else to tell the OP to grow up, man up, or realize it's just a game.  Kicking someone when they're down, another common trait of anonymous online individuals.     Scamming falls under misconduct to me.   If you get raped it's your fault for what you're wearing, if you get scammed it's your fault for being naive I guess.   The things we come to accept in societies...  Sure, some responsibility can always fall at the feet of the victims, but if there are ways to improve the chances of people not being victimized or punishing those that do then I'm for it.     Regardless of responsibility.     /shrug   Off my soapbox I guess...

Exactly. Whether the OP could of prevented this from happening or not, he was wronged and that type of behavior should not be allowed in the game. I mean, the OP claims to have screenshots and proof of his claims, so it shouldn't be an issue for the CSR's to take care of this.

I can't wait to go to work and just punch someone in the face, and then blame them for having their face around me.

Did the person ask you to swing your arms around?  This person gave someone their gold before getting a product or using the trading post.  There is no way you can compare this to someone just punching a random person in the face.  The guy at work had no interaction with you and didn't step in front of your moving hand.

 

You and the other poster are relating a scam to unprovoked physical violence.  If someone sold you a TV on the internet would you pay them before getting the TV?  If you sent them the money and then could not contact them what would you do?  That is what this is like.  Ask the police to follow up on that and see how much ef fort they put into it when they are actually dealing with phyisical violence.

 

Enough with the analogies.   I was only pointing out the blame victims get after being victimized is unnecceasary, never relating the OP's misfortune to rape.    Jesus....

 

 

No one did.   I agree that it sucks and I don't blame. them.  I think that the expectation that the person would be punished is what is excessive.  I think it sucks.  The person deserves to be scorned. . outed etc.  

 

^   

  Homitu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/01/09
Posts: 2036

1/04/13 6:24:30 PM#67
Originally posted by nate1980

You guys make me sick. Talk about blame the victim. So if you all walk down an alley one night after you got drunk at a bar, and get mugged, I guess the cops should just say, " it's your own fault for walking through a dark alley at night."

People and developers should always be striving to do the right thing. The right thing for the developers to do is to suspend that person and give this guy his gold back. GW2, nor does any other game, need people like that in their games.

That analogy isn't even close to accurate.  This is closer to agreeing to wire money to a Nigerian prince and hoping for the best.  Oh look, I just exaggerated my analogy in the opposite direction!  Probably sounds way off to you, right? 

Anyway, a more accurate analogy would be if you bought something off of someone on craigslist, sent the seller cash in the mail before you received your item, and then never got the item.  You chose not to engage in a secure transaction and submitted yourself to a strangers trustworthiness or lackthereof.  What they did was wrong, but there's nothing anyone can do about it.  The person who stole was definitely at fault, but the buyer-to-be also knew what he was getting himself into and took responsibility for the possibility a dubious transaction when he decided to engage in the insecure transaction.

It's the same way in GW2.  There's no C.O.D. mail system in place.  There's no trade window for players to open and mutually confirm the items they're trading.  You can certainly argue those features should be in place.  I would.  But they're not.  But the game does provide a mechanism for secure transactions with the trading post.  Honestly, I suspect C.O.D. and secure p2p trade windows have specifically not been implemented because they want to funnel all player transactions through the trading post to enact a gold sink via the 15% tax on sold items.  Regardless, when you choose to ignore the trading post and place your trust in a stranger, you're at the mercy of the stranger.  That's it.  

That said, I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with player trades thus far.  There have even been studies posted on reddit where players sampled well over 100 trades involving increasingly larger figures, and not one person failed their end of the bargain.  They even went on to accidentally send random players gold, followed by a mail explaining the "mistake" politely asking if they'd send the money back.  They got the money back 100% of the time.  Quite impressive stuff.  

The OP just got unlucky and got screwed.  There are dicks out there.  

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/04/13 6:24:53 PM#68
On the plus side, the influx of Goonswarm players will boost the playerbase.


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3085

I am more than some of my parts

1/04/13 6:26:38 PM#69

We have been provided no more proof that the event actually occurred, then the OP suggests they had for proof that they would not be scammed.

 

The real FACT of the matter is that the playerbase would be in an uproar if there was not a way to transfer items to friends without using the mail system.  The TP system was designed to stop people from being scammed. If people can't understand the concept, and get scammed because they decided to not make the intelligent choice, than it behooves Anet to NOT return the scammed items so that more people don't fall victim to the same trap.  Face it, if Anet returns the gold, than the person can feel free to trust the next scammer because they have nothing to lose.

 

Sorry, but it was the OP's fault, and Anet is doing the RIGHT thing by not refunding anything.

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 862

1/04/13 6:41:25 PM#70
Originally posted by Homitu
Originally posted by nate1980

You guys make me sick. Talk about blame the victim. So if you all walk down an alley one night after you got drunk at a bar, and get mugged, I guess the cops should just say, " it's your own fault for walking through a dark alley at night."

People and developers should always be striving to do the right thing. The right thing for the developers to do is to suspend that person and give this guy his gold back. GW2, nor does any other game, need people like that in their games.

That analogy isn't even close to accurate.  This is closer to agreeing to wire money to a Nigerian prince and hoping for the best.  Oh look, I just exaggerated my analogy in the opposite direction!  Probably sounds way off to you, right? 

Anyway, a more accurate analogy would be if you bought something off of someone on craigslist, sent the seller cash in the mail before you received your item, and then never got the item.  You chose not to engage in a secure transaction and submitted yourself to a strangers trustworthiness or lackthereof.  What they did was wrong, but there's nothing anyone can do about it.  The person who stole was definitely at fault, but the buyer-to-be also knew what he was getting himself into and took responsibility for the possibility a dubious transaction when he decided to engage in the insecure transaction.

It's the same way in GW2.  There's no C.O.D. mail system in place.  There's no trade window for players to open and mutually confirm the items they're trading.  You can certainly argue those features should be in place.  I would.  But they're not.  But the game does provide a mechanism for secure transactions with the trading post.  Honestly, I suspect C.O.D. and secure p2p trade windows have specifically not been implemented because they want to funnel all player transactions through the trading post to enact a gold sink via the 15% tax on sold items.  Regardless, when you choose to ignore the trading post and place your trust in a stranger, you're at the mercy of the stranger.  That's it.  

That said, I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with player trades thus far.  There have even been studies posted on reddit where players sampled well over 100 trades involving increasingly larger figures, and not one person failed their end of the bargain.  They even went on to accidentally send random players gold, followed by a mail explaining the "mistake" politely asking if they'd send the money back.  They got the money back 100% of the time.  Quite impressive stuff.  

The OP just got unlucky and got screwed.  There are dicks out there.  

The problem here is their are no mods that police the activity on craigslist. GW2 have GMs that act as police to ensure all is well in game. I will just post this again...

 

Also just for your information in the terms of service:

Source: http://us.ncsoft.com/en-gb/legal/user-agreements/guild-wars-2-rules-of-conduct.html

("NCSOFT") and ArenaNet, Inc. ("ArenaNet") have the sole right and final judgment of how to interpret and apply these rules and guidelines to any specific circumstance and situation, including proper punishment or exception.
While playing Guild Wars 2, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the Game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.

 

Now this isent my terms of service its ANets. So with this said imo, ANet does share some of the responsibility here and should have taking some action.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 862

1/04/13 6:43:45 PM#71
Originally posted by eyelolled

We have been provided no more proof that the event actually occurred, then the OP suggests they had for proof that they would not be scammed.

I would be nice to see these SS. I know if it was i who had been scammed, i would be blasting this name all over the place. But then again that would be considered harasment.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2690

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/04/13 6:44:21 PM#72

Several things bother me about this situation. The OP's situation and the responses.

If the situation is where the OP may be part of the scam.

How is ArenaNET suppose to know you are being 100% truthful about your situation? They do NOT know you any more than this other player. Maybe you're in on it as well. And say if you are and they refund you. Now you have 100 gold (cause really, after taking the gold obviously the perp would not keep it) and all you had to do was "report" your buddy.

 

If the situation is where the OP is not part of the scam but looking for a response.

If ArenaNET does/did investigate the matter and found the perp guilty, I doubt ArenaNET would inform you of the matter. Reason being is the same reason we did not do it when I worked in corrections. The powers that be are not your personal whipping stick so you may use to inflict punishment and witness the results of your handy work. It's probably the same reason your gold will not be returned. Teachable moments are more effective if the person being taught actually loses something.

 

The overall negative responses of the many here.

If the rebuilding of community was left up to players that similarly make up the responses in this thread, then it would be a cold day in hell before there was any meaningful community that formed from said makeup. Giving a firm but clear message of the naivety of blindly trusting others is one thing. But the failure of many of these same posters in addressing the other player's brazenly selfish and destructive act on the community and leaving it unchecked, is a shining testament of the shortcomings of being self aware of our own harmful nature and another prime example of at least this community's degeneration.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

  Cursedsei

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/07
Posts: 1019

1/04/13 7:21:29 PM#73
Originally posted by eyelolled

We have been provided no more proof that the event actually occurred, then the OP suggests they had for proof that they would not be scammed.

 

The real FACT of the matter is that the playerbase would be in an uproar if there was not a way to transfer items to friends without using the mail system.  The TP system was designed to stop people from being scammed. If people can't understand the concept, and get scammed because they decided to not make the intelligent choice, than it behooves Anet to NOT return the scammed items so that more people don't fall victim to the same trap.  Face it, if Anet returns the gold, than the person can feel free to trust the next scammer because they have nothing to lose.

 

Sorry, but it was the OP's fault, and Anet is doing the RIGHT thing by not refunding anything.

 

Except, of course, you are completely ignoring the fact that Guild Wars 1 already had a system very much like the auction house. The only difference being, it was NPC vendors who bought and sold mats/runes based on the availability of it overall. This was on top of the trading system that was also in the game.

 

The TP doesn't do jack squat. Nor should it be the only system of trade in the game. It's Arena.Net's fault that they wanted to focus solely on the AH, and its the OPs fault for falling for the scam. Like I said before though above, it doesn't excempt the scammer from punishment either.

  User Deleted
1/04/13 7:26:59 PM#74
Originally posted by colddog04

Ehh... that sucks. They don't have a COD option and so stuff like this happens if you trust other people.

 

What is the character's id?

I agree if they did this simple thing which has been in every game out there since the beginning of me getting into MMO's. 

 

It's like they don't have someone there researching the entire history of mmo games to know these things but the devs call themselves gamers.....there's ALOT there they should know as common sense as gamers that are missing.

  Celcius

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 931

1/04/13 7:28:36 PM#75

You should only use the trade post to purchase stuff, especially things like globs. No one has a reason to sell globs cheaper to you then the trade post unless they are selling to you for less then -20% off the current market price. The difference is not big enough to warrant risking a trade unless you are planning to scam the other person. 

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3564

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

1/04/13 7:37:52 PM#76
Something that I learned from my years in EVE Online, applies here... Trust No One... ^^  It was your mistake in judgement that resulted in your loss. Be more careful in the future.
  Msenge

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/12
Posts: 90

1/04/13 7:46:44 PM#77

I don't understand why there is such hate for the tax the Trading Post takes from trades.  It's meant to be a money sink and these types of online economies need their money sinks.  If they had other face to face trading systems or COD systems in place instead of the TP then people would flock to use those systems unless those other systems had their own money sink aspects to them (which wouldn't be the same system used by the TP cuz how would they reliably tax traded items when no gold is exchanged?).  The TP system is a quick, easy, and fair way to effect player trade and significant money sink.  Adding in other systems would result in the developers having to make new more indepth (remember how would they tax item to item trades fairly), that ultimately allow players to game the various systems against themselves.

Also, the face to face system wouldn't really be all that easy as it was in GW1.  Changing servers to meet with a buyer/seller is a whole lot bigger a challenge in GW2 than it was to change districts in GW1.  And remember the system we have in GW1 today is not the same system we had at the beginning of GW1.

And lets not forget the scams involving players putting up items that have the same or very similar looking icons to the itmes the buyer actually wants but are effectively worthless.

Lastly, having systems other than the GW2 TP, would open the door for people that try to prey on people that don't know the current market value of the item they just got.  It happened to me in GW1 when I finished my first a run of the Tombs of the Primeval Kings and I got the rare and highly valuble (at that time at least) shield. I sold it at about a 1/3rd of its current value just cuz it was a big offer and I didn't take time to think it thru.  Making players use the TP allows both parties (buyer and seller) to see what that item is currently running for so people have a much better understanding of where they stand.

  User Deleted
1/04/13 7:52:38 PM#78
Originally posted by nate1980

You guys make me sick. Talk about blame the victim. So if you all walk down an alley one night after you got drunk at a bar, and get mugged, I guess the cops should just say, " it's your own fault for walking through a dark alley at night."

Uh, YES.

If you choose to walk down a dark alley at night with impaired senses, what do you think is going to happen? Some fairy is going to show up and give you a unicorn to ride?

Stupidity isn't an excuse nor does it absolve you from responsibility.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3479

1/04/13 8:08:29 PM#79

Normally I tend to defend the victim in situations like these, but in this case I found myself scratching my head, thinking 'why would you trade like that?'.

Still make sure to spam his name ingame to warn everyone about him. Many will make fun of you if you do, but the person that scammed you will notice it. Even though you were naieve in my eyes, it is still a scam.

EDIT : 'It is just a game, so stop whining' . That argument is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what the activity is where you put many hours of effort in, you will notice it if you lose the result of that effort.

  Ramonski7

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 2690

"A wise man has something to say, but a fool just has to say something."

1/04/13 8:17:21 PM#80

The TP in GW2 really needs to be improved and refined. In it's current form it's equivalent to everyone placing all their items on a big table in various shaped boxes (ring, sword, armor, etc., etc.) and a description on said box with price tags stuck to them. And there is a guy from ArenaNET standing next to the table collecting taxes from people putting items on the table. If I place a item meant for a specific person on the table, what's to stop someone else who sees the nice low price and scooping it up for themselves?

What they need to do if they are going to stick with forcing players to pay into the gold sink (taxes) is offer a safety deposit box type feature along with the table where players can tag items meant for specific players they are trying to trade with. That way people wouldn't feel the need to take chances bypassing the TP and ArenaNET still has its gold sink. It also facilitates player to player trades for those that may group together for a dungeon run and wish to buy a certain drop someone in their group obtained.


"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

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