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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Anet throws out perma bans for wintersday exploit

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113 posts found
  Connmacart

Novice Member

Joined: 2/24/12
Posts: 693

1/04/13 1:30:49 AM#81
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by jpaprocki
You can bet that if GW2 were a sub-based game those poeple would not have had a perma-ban placed on them.  Anet got their money so no skin off thier back.  I don't feel sorry for them one bit.

So doesn't that imply that a P2P game won't ban exploiters and an honest person is better off playing B2P games?

In my experience people get banned a lot less frequent in P2P games. A lot of the times it is just a slap on the wrist and saying don't do that again or we will slap you on the wrist again.

As for the dev in the pic not being able to confirm or deny if it was an exploit. I'm sure somewhere in their contract it states they are not allowed to discuss such matters. Especially not ingame, but if a dev says they can't confirm it you better assume it IS an exploit. As for the forums. A lot of MMO forum have a rule of not allowing exploit discussion on it. To not spread out the knowledge even more before they can fix it.

Anet's stance on exploiting has been clear since GW1. Exploit and get banned. Now as with the first round of banning for the karma exploit they might allow people back in if they make a support ticket. Through which they convert the perm ban to a 3 day ban. Now they might not ofcourse.

All games has exploitable content. You can be greedy and esploit your way to a fortune and hope they don't catch you or you can be an honourable person and not exploit. Don't whine if you do get banned for exploiting though.

 

  PieRad

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/08
Posts: 1169

1/04/13 1:38:01 AM#82

Don't exploit and you won't get banned.

Simple.

 

And if you do it anyway, don't get caught.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2610

1/04/13 2:28:47 AM#83
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Magnetia
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Magnetia
Originally posted by Souldrainer
Originally posted by Volkon

I didn't see it in here, so here's Regina's post on the matter:

 

 

The number of accounts terminated as a result of this exploitative activity is actually very small—fewer than 200. However, these people are the very worst offenders, and engaged in this exploit to egregious levels—hundreds and even thousands of times. They knew exactly what they were doing and they knew that their activities would damage the economy.

As a reminder, when we dealt with the karma exploit incident in September, we said that we would show some leniency for that particular incident. However, we made it clear that future exploits would be dealt with more firmly. As a result, we have terminated the accounts of the worst offenders in this most recent incident.

As always, if you have an exploit to report, please email exploits@arena.net.

Thank you.

 

This wasn't a matter of people making a mistake, or only doing it a few times. This was flat out abuse. As a result, the hammer came down. Knowing this, I support the actions. It wasn't just "ban 'em all". It singled out the worst of the worst only.

 

It doesn't matter if they did it a billion times. By Anet not making their stance clear ahead of time, they just basically greenlighted 200 unexplained, random bans.

Seems pretty fucking clear to me. Exploit again and we will ban you. I don't see how you can't read that.

 

No... Anet wasn't calling it an exploit until after the fact.

You don't seem to realize that even before they 'called it' it would still be an exploit. 

 

I realize that some people would think that. I just disagree with that viewpoint. What is your stance? People can't have runaway success on the in-game market by finding loopholes? If that is your take, then they need to ban a lot more than 200 players... probably 200,000 at least.

Anet has said before that players shouldn't use mistakes/overlooks/loopholes made by them (Anet).

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/john-smith-on-the-state-of-the-guild-wars-2-economy/

The society would actually be a better place if people couldn't use the loopholes in the laws (some times tailored to specific groups to be able to abuse it).

 

One thing people tend to forget is that there is actual people using real money to buy things like ectos - if someone spends $50 to buy ectos and then those ectos value drop to $10 they will be wary of spending more money.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  revani

Novice Member

Joined: 12/23/12
Posts: 8

1/04/13 4:49:05 AM#84

 


Originally posted by Souldrainer

Originally posted by revani Is this Déjà vu or something? I could swear i saw the exact same posts when the game started and ANET banned tons of people for exploiting. The outrage was insane. Since ANET showed early on that they don't tolerate massive exploiting, one would think that people would get a clue... LOL
  So... you didn't read the thread, did you? They never said it was an exploit. They dodged the question when asked, and then the ban happened. Anet's interpretation of the event was not made clear up front.

So...you didn't read the EULA, did you? They don't need to say in advance about every specific little thing that they define it as an exploit.  ANET's definition of exploits was clear from the start.

 


Law also doesn't define every little thing you can't do, doesn't mean you won't get your ass busted for doing it, unless you live in country where you can sue tobacco company for getting cancer or food company for being fat because you eat too much.


But since you seem to be so adamant about ANET being in the wrong, please show some evidence where ANET is not clear about their stance on subject of exploiting.

 

Edit: deleted last part of my post since it didn't make any sense lol.

 

 

    

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 969

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

1/04/13 12:06:07 PM#85

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  nukempro

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 80

1/04/13 12:15:00 PM#86
I can agree with the bans. But if someone asks support about an exploit, they should NOT be told "we can't confirm or deny that". Once the exploit is found it should be posted and explained cleary till a fix goes live. That's pretty bogus if you ask me. Not like it effects me anyway as I dropped GW2 the minutes I got to 80 and realized it's just another grinder.
  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2610

1/04/13 2:33:03 PM#87
Originally posted by nukempro
I can agree with the bans. But if someone asks support about an exploit, they should NOT be told "we can't confirm or deny that". Once the exploit is found it should be posted and explained cleary till a fix goes live. That's pretty bogus if you ask me. Not like it effects me anyway as I dropped GW2 the minutes I got to 80 and realized it's just another grinder.

That is because they have to run it with the people that oversee the economy of GW2.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4758

1/04/13 2:41:56 PM#88

Still playing GW2, but imho I think Anet needs to be pretty careful about these things. For one, it's not exactly legal (and I'm sure if anyone wanted to actually fight them on this they'd win), and it's honestly kind of lazy.

I'm glad they are taking a hard stance on exploits, but they should be more careful of what they patch into the game. There are fairly large amounts of easily exploitable features in the game that they just tossed in there. Nearly every dungeon has an exploit of some kind that people utilize on a daily basis. Most of the market economy is based around people looking for ways to take items and turn them into a higher value. That's how the market place works. You can't fault people for finding something like this. I know a few of the people banned only thought they had finally found a way to get their legendary in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think they deserved to be banned for it, but I guess that's the problem w/ not having a method for rolling back players.

  User Deleted
1/04/13 2:47:41 PM#89

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

  nukempro

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/12
Posts: 80

1/04/13 2:55:06 PM#90
Originally posted by aesperus

Still playing GW2, but imho I think Anet needs to be pretty careful about these things. For one, it's not exactly legal (and I'm sure if anyone wanted to actually fight them on this they'd win), and it's honestly kind of lazy.

I'm glad they are taking a hard stance on exploits, but they should be more careful of what they patch into the game. There are fairly large amounts of easily exploitable features in the game that they just tossed in there. Nearly every dungeon has an exploit of some kind that people utilize on a daily basis. Most of the market economy is based around people looking for ways to take items and turn them into a higher value. That's how the market place works. You can't fault people for finding something like this. I know a few of the people banned only thought they had finally found a way to get their legendary in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think they deserved to be banned for it, but I guess that's the problem w/ not having a method for rolling back players.

I don't agree that anyone could win a legal battle with anet. To start with you would have to be pretty wealthy to simply afford the battle alone. Also there is nothing illegal about them banning people for violating the terms THEY agreed to. I know people are saying those things aren't binding and such but I wouldn't take that to the bank. Besides IMHO you have to live a very sad, lonely and pathetic life to actually be motivated to take a mmo company to court over a 50 dollar game.(More effective and healthy to just take the hit and never buy a product from them again, as well as spread the word in regards to their shitty practices.) From the first time I read this TOS things I knew what it really means....people just like to vent, but hey when one of the forum goers wins a court battle against a gigantic company over a game that costs about as much as the gas for the round trip to the court and back..post the pics and ill apologize for my statements.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17236

1/04/13 3:07:13 PM#91
Originally posted by Psychow

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

lol, no, tha'ts not being smart enough to know that "something is too good to be true" and then double checking with the gm's that it's not a bug.

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

1/04/13 3:07:34 PM#92

Did these guys used cheat?

Or I'm dumb, as I can't see why I discover recipe (kinda annoying feature of ANet at Mystic Forge), use it to crate item (normal use and devs MADE this available), then I try to salvage it (as I have not better use, I guess), and getting ectos (YAY).

Well, sorry to tell to all idiots who gonna run to devs and cry: why you made me gift, I'll use my gift, my opportunity, as many time as it works and

I'm right

as it not me who created this option but game devs, so they need to use their brain, knowledge etc to avoid bad results (my guess some tests would be great too).

I don't think why it my fault to use game feature or why, hell, I need to think if it bug or not, I have enough with bugs prevent me to finish quest (just as example) to not to think whole game is just big bug (sorta joke).

People keep telling GW2 bans easy even for non-appropriate name (how I need to guess what you like if you don't put filters).

I mean to me it gives worst reputation game can have (I'm 100% for perma ban of bots, gold sellers, site advert spammers and such crap), ban too easy makes players mad,
I'm sure you can give option to change name before ban, or roll back your errors (or even let them pass) but NOT ban players.

Between boring poor content and mass bans we shortly will have empty servers.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  Skooma2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/05/08
Posts: 684

1/04/13 3:11:39 PM#93

As an actual lawyer I can tell you that there is no chance of victory against Anet.  First, the EULA calls for mandatory arbitration of disputes.  That means a disinterested third party decides the case after hearing presentations from both sides.  The only way out of an arbitrator's final decision is an appeal to a court.  However,  the ONLY issue the court will decide is whether the arbitration process was fair.

 

Second, the issue with an exploit is mens rea, a legal term meaning a guilty mind.  If, for example, a player took advantage of an exploit and it was his first time, no harm, no foul, because he didn't know it was an exploit.  However, if you continuously repeat a process that allows you to get more out of something than you put in, there is a presumption that you know you are taking advantage of an exploit (mens rea).  Therefore, there is nothing to complain about.

 

Third, just because you thought you could do what you want because there was no specific rule issued about that particular exploit, is no defense.    If there are no speed limit signs in front of a school, could you tell the judge that there was no sign saying you couldn't go 60 MPH?

 

(I am using the editorial form of "you", am not directing these comments against anyone in particular.)

Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2610

1/04/13 3:54:49 PM#94
Originally posted by Psychow

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

The recipe was bugged - you would always get an ecto.

Second, the recipe allowed to get the main component back meaning it didn't follow the pattern of all other recipes in game.

Third, there are recipies that allow one to convert materials into ectos into gold (at a much smaller rate) but these recipies consume the main components.

Fourth this isn't about the coin created since there was none (only transfered) only about the destruction of the value of a commodity that is widely used to obtain some of the rarer items in the game and in a way as a reserve currency.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 921

1/04/13 9:21:46 PM#95
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Psychow

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

The recipe was bugged - you would always get an ecto.

Second, the recipe allowed to get the main component back meaning it didn't follow the pattern of all other recipes in game.

Third, there are recipies that allow one to convert materials into ectos into gold (at a much smaller rate) but these recipies consume the main components.

Fourth this isn't about the coin created since there was none (only transfered) only about the destruction of the value of a commodity that is widely used to obtain some of the rarer items in the game and in a way as a reserve currency.

No it wasn't. You had the same chance to obtain ectos as any other rare item you salvaged.

Also wrong. All jewelry has the chance to return the jewel when it was salvaged.

Jewelry's main component is considered an upgrade component and is consumed at a 20% rate when using a Master's Salvage Kit to salvage it. Pristine snowflake jewelry is no different in this regard.

  AzurePrower

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/18/07
Posts: 1535

Ahh yes, "Hypers." The people who praise and hate every MMORPG... We've dismissed that claim.

1/05/13 8:05:24 AM#96

Seems scamming in Guild Wars 2 is okay. But the moment some one finds a way to not buy gold through their cash shop. They drop the ban hammer. Probably the reason why I am still poor too.

Incredibly obnoxious that they expect players to know what is considered an exploit when Anet members themselves were asked (whilst making the recipe themselves mind you) and could not confirm it was.

Every player should be concerned.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2610

1/05/13 8:51:20 AM#97
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Psychow

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

The recipe was bugged - you would always get an ecto.

Second, the recipe allowed to get the main component back meaning it didn't follow the pattern of all other recipes in game.

Third, there are recipies that allow one to convert materials into ectos into gold (at a much smaller rate) but these recipies consume the main components.

Fourth this isn't about the coin created since there was none (only transfered) only about the destruction of the value of a commodity that is widely used to obtain some of the rarer items in the game and in a way as a reserve currency.

No it wasn't. You had the same chance to obtain ectos as any other rare item you salvaged.

Also wrong. All jewelry has the chance to return the jewel when it was salvaged.

Jewelry's main component is considered an upgrade component and is consumed at a 20% rate when using a Master's Salvage Kit to salvage it. Pristine snowflake jewelry is no different in this regard.

All jewels with the exception of that one require 3 jewels and have chance to return 1 jewel, meaning you lose 2/3 all the time.

I've heard the recipe would at least generate 1 ecto all the time but maybe that was the exotic recipie.

No other recipe that can be salvagedd into ectos return 100% of the main material 80% of the time, be it a jewel, be it an insignia.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Lovely_Laly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/10
Posts: 736

game is also real

1/05/13 10:14:58 PM#98

IMO: as this game is full of bugs, play it must be considered as exploit.

but seriously all that sounds again like cheap f2p model, where bug is like always player's fault.

beside I still convinced they need to fire bad designers rather then ban players.

try before buy, even if it's a game to avoid bad surprises.
Worst surprises for me: Aion, GW2

  NaughtyP

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 795

1/05/13 10:20:04 PM#99
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by ice-vortex
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Psychow

I do not agree with the bans. If I'm understanding this right, it's almost like if in WoW you could craft somethign via Tailoring and then disenchant it with enchanting to get mats that are more valuable than the mats used to make the tailoring item.

 

That isn't an explaoit. That is using the games crafting mechanic in a positive way. Is my example way of? I didn't read the whole thread.

The recipe was bugged - you would always get an ecto.

Second, the recipe allowed to get the main component back meaning it didn't follow the pattern of all other recipes in game.

Third, there are recipies that allow one to convert materials into ectos into gold (at a much smaller rate) but these recipies consume the main components.

Fourth this isn't about the coin created since there was none (only transfered) only about the destruction of the value of a commodity that is widely used to obtain some of the rarer items in the game and in a way as a reserve currency.

No it wasn't. You had the same chance to obtain ectos as any other rare item you salvaged.

Also wrong. All jewelry has the chance to return the jewel when it was salvaged.

Jewelry's main component is considered an upgrade component and is consumed at a 20% rate when using a Master's Salvage Kit to salvage it. Pristine snowflake jewelry is no different in this regard.

All jewels with the exception of that one require 3 jewels and have chance to return 1 jewel, meaning you lose 2/3 all the time.

I've heard the recipe would at least generate 1 ecto all the time but maybe that was the exotic recipie.

No other recipe that can be salvagedd into ectos return 100% of the main material 80% of the time, be it a jewel, be it an insignia.

It's still not what I would classify as a game exploit... because anyone who did it was still acting within the confines of the system. There is no bug or glitch causing the system to be circumvented in this case. It's simply a poorly designed recipe in a poorly designed crafting system.

But I don't even know why we're arguing here. Any company that implements a DR system under the guise of "we don't want you to grind" and "it's so bots don't ruin the game" sounds the alarms in my brain. Bwoop! Bwoop! Bwoop!

Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.

  User Deleted
1/05/13 10:30:51 PM#100

I'm starting to see a disturbing trend with the management of this company. It's kind of like they haven't learned from the collective mmo history of the market but somehow call themselves gamers. If they were truly mmo gamers they would know some of this stuff it's really not that much of a mystery.

I am equally surprised here they are running a AAA company and yet they aren't studying the practices of other companies as we almost always see in other industries.

What they should have done instead of permabans was a rollback like Blizz has had to do multiple times for years, surely the marine biologist isn't more mature then these people cmon now.

Here's a few examples of what I mean:

- DR to fight off bots. Bad idea, always fails has been used multiple times by multiple companies some of which completely ticked off their players to the point that they killed their own game entirely, and had to close up shop.

- gear treadmill trimmings....seen it time and time again where they devs start off by promising a more level gearing field end game then the players get there and find "oh yeah we decided you didn't need that old gear even tho you got it, here's a new set that's better and will give you an advantage in WvW even tho our mods will tell you otherwise, here run this same dungeon 500 times"

- RMT economy with manipulated RNG loot system. Anyone else remember why D3 lost 60% of it's players? It wasn't entirely due to lack of content i can tell you that right up front. They too had to revert to the reward for time spent original design they promised the players and still it didn't recover to the levels they had before.

now I know these people have had 1 other title GW1 and from what I've read they handled that one even with the limitations swimmingly. I have no idea who's in charge of this one but it just seems to me that their current management team is completely new to the mmo world because of the mistakes they are making left and right with this thing post launch. It was great the first month! after that first month tho something happened and it's gotten worse and worse with every patch. Makes me wanna ride down there and shake my fist at their corporate building like an old man trying to get kids off his lawn.

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