Slapshot,

I understand your frustration at needing to pay for something that has been traditionally a free phase in game development. To pay for an unfinished product that might not even make it to the shelf seems potentially like a cash grab on the part of the company. 

Personally, I have waited for this type of game for so long (a decade of wading through WoW clones since I left Ultima Online) that I am happy for the opportunity to help see this game come to fruition, partly due to what I see not as a fee, but an investment.   Second, the chance to provide meaningful feedback into the testing and possibly even feature creation of such a game is again well worth a fee, given how much money I've spent treading water in less satisfying MMOs.  Finally, (though I don't have the quote...its burried somewhere in the Goblinworks developer's blog), those who participate in the beta will not be wiping their characters or accomplishments once open enrollment occurs.  Having alpha and beta tested WoW, I can say that one of the reasons I burnt out within a year after the game went public was having to remake everything about my character all over again.

Bottom line, I've spent far more money over the years on games I had far less enthusiasm about (like my LotRO lifetime subscription that I haven't used in years).  To me, this is a chance to help make the game I've been wanting to play for years.

Hobs

The Emyrean Order

http://theempyrean.org/

Originally posted by AndiusMeuridiar

  Lee Hammock

....

I'm backing this project already. As far as I know, they already have the funding to make the game. The KS is only to speed up the process.

To me, supporting the project means letting them know there are people out there supporting the vision of a new and different kind of fantasy MMO. Hope they succeed with this project.

Originally posted by Hobs00

Slapshot,

I understand your frustration at needing to pay for something that has been traditionally a free phase in game development. To pay for an unfinished product that might not even make it to the shelf seems potentially like a cash grab on the part of the company. 

Personally, I have waited for this type of game for so long (a decade of wading through WoW clones since I left Ultima Online) that I am happy for the opportunity to help see this game come to fruition, partly due to what I see not as a fee, but an investment.   Second, the chance to provide meaningful feedback into the testing and possibly even feature creation of such a game is again well worth a fee, given how much money I've spent treading water in less satisfying MMOs.  Finally, (though I don't have the quote...its burried somewhere in the Goblinworks developer's blog), those who participate in the beta will not be wiping their characters or accomplishments once open enrollment occurs.  Having alpha and beta tested WoW, I can say that one of the reasons I burnt out within a year after the game went public was having to remake everything about my character all over again.

Bottom line, I've spent far more money over the years on games I had far less enthusiasm about (like my LotRO lifetime subscription that I haven't used in years).  To me, this is a chance to help make the game I've been wanting to play for years.

Hobs

The Emyrean Order

http://theempyrean.org/

 Hobs...  I can't fully dfisagree with anything you said (well except for the investement part.. because if it was an investment I'd get stock and potential profit).  That said... it's a matter of perspective for me.  I'm the customer and the reason a company has a beta is because the product is not ready for prime time so they need people to volunteer their time to help fix it and get it polished and ready.  Now, not only do they want you to buy the game... but they want you to pay an access fee to pay their bandwidth costs so you can test the game for them?   Sheez...  that is really turning the tables on the traditional customer/company relationship and not in a good way.  It sets a horrible precedent and one thing that has been proven is that once one company lowers the bar... others will follow and lower it further.

Also, I absolutely get the benefit to not wiping characters.  But that has the potential to create a tremendous in game advantage as those characters will have 9+ months of training and equipment.  This is a FFA-PVP game.  People starting at "release" will not stand a chance.

That said... I still haven't ruled out clicking that button... simply because the game (on paper) is the game I have waited for (no matter how unlikely it is to deliver).

I will give them credit though for at least publicly saying they will expect you to pay a sub to beta their game.  Other games "launch" in a beta state these days...

Originally posted by AndiusMeuridiar
Thankfully the vast majority of early beta slots are held by organizations that don't RPK (Random Player Killing). As stated earliest I lead the largest organization in the game, The Empyrean Order, and we are dedicated anti-RPKers with considerable Open World PVP experience in our leadership. This organization is an adaption of one I lead in both Freelancer and Darkfall, and we have an ex-BoB fleet commander who's lead over 1000 ships in a single battle with us as well.

The RPK crowd will be the ones getting the late start, and meeting considerable opposition. You're going to find a lot of friendly and helpful faces if you join PFO on official release. Not jeering griefers everywhere.

Personally I pledged because I love the community so much that I can't wait to start building our world up together. Even if the game is missing a lot of features at start. The mark we make will be lasting.

 So.. its OK because YOU will have the advantage over new people at release and be better able to impose your will on the game?

Don't forget that there are other PvP factions than griefers.  There is going to be territory control and guild warfare...

@Slapshot: For more info on the beta process: Goblin Works Dev Blog:

What To Expect From Early Access Beta

For more info on the Crowdforging Process:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/370498/Pathfinder-Online-Crowdforging.html

=

Considerations:

1. Risk

2. Beta = low on features; will be some performance and other testing stuff.

Positives:

1. Early access

2. Early community; niche = good.

3. Be part of dev-player interaction

4. Crowdsource/fund a sandbox with a fighting chance - ie subs are used to develop features regularly from small to large systems.

5. Imo, paying means the ppl in this will be more interested in the long-run.

6. Worst that happens it does not work out and a small money hit for a venture that did not work out.

From what I've gathered, the only conclusive thing released on this game is a tech demo that frankly only showcased some graphics.

Until you really have an idea what combat, UI and so forth looks like, you could just as well be paying for an unplayable mess.

I guess that's up to you though.

Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

From what I've gathered, the only conclusive thing released on this game is a tech demo that frankly only showcased some graphics.

Until you really have an idea what combat, UI and so forth looks like, you could just as well be paying for an unplayable mess.

I guess that's up to you though.

This is absolutely true: There are a bunch of things I'd normally have to see as vital to putting money down on the table.

But if you look at this great vid at: [VIDEO] Sandbox MMO's comming out in 2013 - out of those only Pathfinder Online really jumps out and appeals. So a 1/14 selection to speculate into mmorpgs settles it (for me) combined with the very good design vision at the blogs: Willing to take a punt on it.

Sure implementation/execution will impact that vision, but actually think it's good that mmorpg players start to dictate the market instead of the other way around that led to themeparks modelling designs after wow's brilliant commercial success.