Trending Games | ArcheAge | Guild Wars 2 | WildStar | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,787,550 Users Online:0
Games:723  Posts:6,193,366
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Much of the MMO gameplay is not massive

12 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Last Search
228 posts found
  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

1/02/13 9:35:34 AM#121
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by nariusseldon
 

It's massively and not massive. And altough it is not mandatory for "fun" it is mandatory for a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. It is like creating a multiplayer game and not having any actual multiplayer.

No its not. Being multiplayer or not is a binary issue whereas being massive or massively multiplayer is highly debatable.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 12:13:35 PM#122
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Nitth

Just to put on sum perspective, Eve has 50k players on concurrently and usually your the loneliest guy in your corner of space.

People is the problem. they don't want massive anymore.

Why is it a problem? It is just a gaming preference. There is certainly no problem if the devs respond to that desire.

And why would anyone think "massive" is mandatory for fun? Old PnP RPGs are not massive. AD&D is not massive. In fact, most PNP RPG is about small groups of comrades fighting through a dungeon.

Personally i don't think massive is that important for PvE gameplay. The only place that  i enjoy "massive" combat is big pvp battles. (ALthough i do like massive AH/trading, and a massive lobby so you can form small group easily).

It's massively and not massive. And altough it is not mandatory for "fun" it is mandatory for a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. It is like creating a multiplayer game and not having any actual multiplayer.

No longer true. Have you been reading? Lots of MMORPGs have non-massive gameplay like 5-man dungeons. So it is certainly not mandatory anymore.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/03/13 12:24:10 PM#123


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Nitth Just to put on sum perspective, Eve has 50k players on concurrently and usually your the loneliest guy in your corner of space. People is the problem. they don't want massive anymore.
Why is it a problem? It is just a gaming preference. There is certainly no problem if the devs respond to that desire. And why would anyone think "massive" is mandatory for fun? Old PnP RPGs are not massive. AD&D is not massive. In fact, most PNP RPG is about small groups of comrades fighting through a dungeon. Personally i don't think massive is that important for PvE gameplay. The only place that  i enjoy "massive" combat is big pvp battles. (ALthough i do like massive AH/trading, and a massive lobby so you can form small group easily).
It's massively and not massive. And altough it is not mandatory for "fun" it is mandatory for a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game. It is like creating a multiplayer game and not having any actual multiplayer.
No longer true. Have you been reading? Lots of MMORPGs have non-massive gameplay like 5-man dungeons. So it is certainly not mandatory anymore.



MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 12:30:39 PM#124
Originally posted by lizardbones


MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.

 

Tell me, for pve gameplay, how necessary is massive gameplay. In fact, take WOW, LOTRO, DDO .. and another huge list of MMOs .. there is zero massive pve gameplay. All the gameplay is in small group dungeons, and raids, and solo/group quests. None is massive.

The ONLY massive pve gameplay is staring at each other in a lobby (city), and AH.

In many of these games, not even the pvp gameplay is massive.

If you look at the percentage of time players spend in small group gameplay vs "massive" gameplay, "massive" gameplay don't seem necessary at all.

In fact, when i was still playing WOW, I have almost never engaged in massive pve gameplay because there is none, except may be world boss, which is a) few and far in-between, b) most people i know (and myself) has little interests in it.

Now i am playing some STO .. and once again, where is the "massive" gameplay? There is none and none is necessary to enjoy the game.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2314

World > Quest Progression

1/03/13 12:50:16 PM#125
I don't think you understood Lizard's point. It's not about how many people are right there in your party or even raid. Heck, WoW raids are mostly 10 people now which I would not consider "massive". It's about the world, not the specific activity.

The point is who else is "out there". In GW I was totally turned off by the fact that once I left the town I knew the whole instance I entered was empty save for me. It's the same reason I don't like single player RPGs. I know there is no one else there. It's not even about socializing as I may go nights without sitting down and talking to someone. It's about being in a persistent world that feels more alive because there are others out there with you while you are playing. This can be applied to small group play. You may have a handful of people with you but knowing there is a whole world of people aside from yor group makes the world seem more alive.

In a humorous way you can apply this to real life. Even if you spent the whole day inside would you not feel more alone knowing there is not another person out there? Now what about five other people? Would having only five other people in the world make it seems like it does now?
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/03/13 1:00:21 PM#126


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.  
Tell me, for pve gameplay, how necessary is massive gameplay. In fact, take WOW, LOTRO, DDO .. and another huge list of MMOs .. there is zero massive pve gameplay. All the gameplay is in small group dungeons, and raids, and solo/group quests. None is massive.

The ONLY massive pve gameplay is staring at each other in a lobby (city), and AH.

In many of these games, not even the pvp gameplay is massive.

If you look at the percentage of time players spend in small group gameplay vs "massive" gameplay, "massive" gameplay don't seem necessary at all.

In fact, when i was still playing WOW, I have almost never engaged in massive pve gameplay because there is none, except may be world boss, which is a) few and far in-between, b) most people i know (and myself) has little interests in it.

Now i am playing some STO .. and once again, where is the "massive" gameplay? There is none and none is necessary to enjoy the game.




How necessary is multiplayer game play? It's not necessary at all. There isn't anything necessary about any video game anything. People like it though. Which is why video games and MMOs exist. People like it. Many people like massively multiplayer game play. They may also like lobby based game play. That doesn't mean both types of games provide the same experience, even if there is overlap in game play between the two types of games.

When you played WoW, if you logged into the world and ran around in it, you participated in massively multiplayer game play. Simply existing in the world and being visible to other players makes you a participant.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 1:00:33 PM#127
Originally posted by Aelious
I don't think you understood Lizard's point. It's not about how many people are right there in your party or even raid. Heck, WoW raids are mostly 10 people now which I would not consider "massive". It's about the world, not the specific activity.

The point is who else is "out there". In GW I was totally turned off by the fact that once I left the town I knew the whole instance I entered was empty save for me. It's the same reason I don't like single player RPGs. I know there is no one else there. It's not even about socializing as I may go nights without sitting down and talking to someone. It's about being in a persistent world that feels more alive because there are others out there with you while you are playing. This can be applied to small group play. You may have a handful of people with you but knowing there is a whole world of people aside from yor group makes the world seem more alive.

In a humorous way you can apply this to real life. Even if you spent the whole day inside would you not feel more alone knowing there is not another person out there? Now what about five other people? Would having only five other people in the world make it seems like it does now?

So what is the difference between doing an instance in WOW .. which you KNOW no one is going to be in your instance .. and a D3 game .. which similarly no one else is going to be in your game?

The world cease to exist once you are in the instance. If you talk about the actual game .. it is massive .. whether you are talking about D3, Borderlands or WOW. There are always millions playing .. just not in your instance. The world is really not that relevant, when you are not in it .. and what is the difference between a 3D lobby like Orgrimmar, or the D3 menu lobby? You can talk to many players. You can inspect them. You can ask them to a group and go into an instance with you. You can Igo to the trade channel and ask for deals.

I don't have this obsession with the world .. and i don't see it as a main part of the gameplay when you are not in it 99% of the time. It does not even promote socialization as well as chat-rooms, and friend lists.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 1:03:50 PM#128
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.  
Tell me, for pve gameplay, how necessary is massive gameplay. In fact, take WOW, LOTRO, DDO .. and another huge list of MMOs .. there is zero massive pve gameplay. All the gameplay is in small group dungeons, and raids, and solo/group quests. None is massive.

 

The ONLY massive pve gameplay is staring at each other in a lobby (city), and AH.

In many of these games, not even the pvp gameplay is massive.

If you look at the percentage of time players spend in small group gameplay vs "massive" gameplay, "massive" gameplay don't seem necessary at all.

In fact, when i was still playing WOW, I have almost never engaged in massive pve gameplay because there is none, except may be world boss, which is a) few and far in-between, b) most people i know (and myself) has little interests in it.

Now i am playing some STO .. and once again, where is the "massive" gameplay? There is none and none is necessary to enjoy the game.




How necessary is multiplayer game play? It's not necessary at all. There isn't anything necessary about any video game anything. People like it though. Which is why video games and MMOs exist. People like it. Many people like massively multiplayer game play. They may also like lobby based game play. That doesn't mean both types of games provide the same experience, even if there is overlap in game play between the two types of games.

When you played WoW, if you logged into the world and ran around in it, you participated in massively multiplayer game play. Simply existing in the world and being visible to other players makes you a participant.

 

That is what i am disputing. The ONLY "massive MP gameplay" in PVE is liek you say .. run around in a city and let people see you. How many actually like that and not "alt-tab" to surf until their dungeon pops?

And aside from being in a city and look (and AH), there is no other form of massive MP gameplay. Don't you think people focus on dungeons & raids .. or even quests .. and none of those are massive?"

 

  fivoroth

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 11/10/06
Posts: 2630

1/03/13 1:07:51 PM#129

MMOs are massive because they offer a lot of things which other multiplayer games don't. They offer continuity and a persistent world where you can come across other people without joining a "game". 

I don't need a game with groups of 300-400 people. That's just stupid. I mean it's fun for a while but gets old fast because it is just mindless zerg. 

Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/03/13 2:07:17 PM#130


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.  
Tell me, for pve gameplay, how necessary is massive gameplay. In fact, take WOW, LOTRO, DDO .. and another huge list of MMOs .. there is zero massive pve gameplay. All the gameplay is in small group dungeons, and raids, and solo/group quests. None is massive.   The ONLY massive pve gameplay is staring at each other in a lobby (city), and AH. In many of these games, not even the pvp gameplay is massive. If you look at the percentage of time players spend in small group gameplay vs "massive" gameplay, "massive" gameplay don't seem necessary at all. In fact, when i was still playing WOW, I have almost never engaged in massive pve gameplay because there is none, except may be world boss, which is a) few and far in-between, b) most people i know (and myself) has little interests in it. Now i am playing some STO .. and once again, where is the "massive" gameplay? There is none and none is necessary to enjoy the game.
How necessary is multiplayer game play? It's not necessary at all. There isn't anything necessary about any video game anything. People like it though. Which is why video games and MMOs exist. People like it. Many people like massively multiplayer game play. They may also like lobby based game play. That doesn't mean both types of games provide the same experience, even if there is overlap in game play between the two types of games. When you played WoW, if you logged into the world and ran around in it, you participated in massively multiplayer game play. Simply existing in the world and being visible to other players makes you a participant.  
That is what i am disputing. The ONLY "massive MP gameplay" in PVE is liek you say .. run around in a city and let people see you. How many actually like that and not "alt-tab" to surf until their dungeon pops?

And aside from being in a city and look (and AH), there is no other form of massive MP gameplay. Don't you think people focus on dungeons & raids .. or even quests .. and none of those are massive?"

 




You are talking about direct interactions, and ignoring indirect interactions. You directly interact with very few people in game. You indirectly interact with many people in game. One of those indirect interactions is just seeing people running around in the world.

I've watched people do a level 1 gnome run across the continents in WoW. They directly interacted with few people, but indirectly interacted with many people. A massive number of people heard the stories inside the game increasing the interactions and the persistent nature of the players' activities. That type of thing would not have been possible in a lobby based game.

Except it's certainly possible to directly interact with hundreds of people. I've done it. It was choppy as heck, but it happened. It would not have been possible if the instead of a virtual world the game just had a lobby.

So again, is it necessary? No, of course not. Nothing in video games is really necessary. Is it desired? Yes.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2314

World > Quest Progression

1/03/13 2:53:56 PM#131
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aelious
I don't think you understood Lizard's point. It's not about how many people are right there in your party or even raid. Heck, WoW raids are mostly 10 people now which I would not consider "massive". It's about the world, not the specific activity.

The point is who else is "out there". In GW I was totally turned off by the fact that once I left the town I knew the whole instance I entered was empty save for me. It's the same reason I don't like single player RPGs. I know there is no one else there. It's not even about socializing as I may go nights without sitting down and talking to someone. It's about being in a persistent world that feels more alive because there are others out there with you while you are playing. This can be applied to small group play. You may have a handful of people with you but knowing there is a whole world of people aside from yor group makes the world seem more alive.

In a humorous way you can apply this to real life. Even if you spent the whole day inside would you not feel more alone knowing there is not another person out there? Now what about five other people? Would having only five other people in the world make it seems like it does now?

So what is the difference between doing an instance in WOW .. which you KNOW no one is going to be in your instance .. and a D3 game .. which similarly no one else is going to be in your game?

The world cease to exist once you are in the instance. If you talk about the actual game .. it is massive .. whether you are talking about D3, Borderlands or WOW. There are always millions playing .. just not in your instance. The world is really not that relevant, when you are not in it .. and what is the difference between a 3D lobby like Orgrimmar, or the D3 menu lobby? You can talk to many players. You can inspect them. You can ask them to a group and go into an instance with you. You can Igo to the trade channel and ask for deals.

I don't have this obsession with the world .. and i don't see it as a main part of the gameplay when you are not in it 99% of the time. It does not even promote socialization as well as chat-rooms, and friend lists.

 

Nothing at all except that in WoW instanced dungeons are one aspect of the game and it has a game world outside that instance, D3 does not.

 

As far as the "world" is concerned it's not about an obsession, it's a medium for a "massive" amount of people to share the same space with thier avatars.  Doing what? doesn't matter.  Together? Doesn't matter.  What does matter is having that space.  Does that shared space go away when you're not there? Not if it's an MMORPG.

 

Having a virtual world may not be important to you, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean a defined series of terms has to change.  It will not until those words in the english language do.  Even in a game like WoW where a lot of emphisis is placed on instanced content they did massive changes to the world for Cata.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 3:18:19 PM#132
Originally posted by lizardbones


You are talking about direct interactions, and ignoring indirect interactions. You directly interact with very few people in game. You indirectly interact with many people in game. One of those indirect interactions is just seeing people running around in the world.

I've watched people do a level 1 gnome run across the continents in WoW. They directly interacted with few people, but indirectly interacted with many people. A massive number of people heard the stories inside the game increasing the interactions and the persistent nature of the players' activities. That type of thing would not have been possible in a lobby based game.

Except it's certainly possible to directly interact with hundreds of people. I've done it. It was choppy as heck, but it happened. It would not have been possible if the instead of a virtual world the game just had a lobby.

So again, is it necessary? No, of course not. Nothing in video games is really necessary. Is it desired? Yes.

 

You don't need a MMO to have indirect interations. Many non-MMOs have chat channels, so you can "hear" lots of people. You can "inspect" others from the menu in D3, no difference than the inspection you do in orgrimmar in WOW. The *only* difference, in a game like D3, or playing a MP game on steam, is that you don't *see* the 3D toons in the lobby. To me, that is not a huge difference.

Secondly, yes, i am talking about direction interactions. The indirect ones, like you see toons running around, don't add much to gameplay experiences, particularly when it consist of only a very small percentage of play time.

If you spend 10 min in city with this "indirect interaction", and then 2 hours in LFR raid, the 10 min of waiting is not that important. So i am disputing if this *SMALL* part of the game, which btw, many will ignore by watching a youtube video, is desirable.

It certainly does not matter to me. A menu lobby makes zero difference to me. And btw, you can't claim that the raid/dungeon experience is not more important, when most people are playing the game for exactly that.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 3:26:22 PM#133
Originally posted by Aelious
 

 

Nothing at all except that in WoW instanced dungeons are one aspect of the game and it has a game world outside that instance, D3 does not.

 

As far as the "world" is concerned it's not about an obsession, it's a medium for a "massive" amount of people to share the same space with thier avatars.  Doing what? doesn't matter.  Together? Doesn't matter.  What does matter is having that space.  Does that shared space go away when you're not there? Not if it's an MMORPG.

 

Having a virtual world may not be important to you, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean a defined series of terms has to change.  It will not until those words in the english language do.  Even in a game like WoW where a lot of emphisis is placed on instanced content they did massive changes to the world for Cata.

Yes, it is only one aspect of the game, but turns out that is the aspect of the game people spend 90% of their game in. Don't tell me all aspects of games are equal. In fact, the reason why many spend any time in the world is because there is a wait time for dungeons. If LFD, LFR takes no wait (like for a tank), players won't be in teh world at all.

Actualy that shared space is ONLY relevant when people are waiting for their dungeons to pop, which is a small amount of their play-time, and often viewed as wait-time, and people will do other stuff when waiting. Thus, many, when playing MMOs, will NOT be in that shared space most of their play time.

I never adocate to change teh definition. In fact, i am fully articulating that games like D3 is not a MMO. However, i am pointing out that "much of the gamplay in MMOs is not massive" .. and that is a fact when most players are spending most of their time in instances ... as instances are not "massive" gameplay. And i am also drawing the parallel of this style of gameplay to D3, which has a very similar style .. which is players spending most of their time in small group co-op instances. The only difference .. is whether you see other toons in 3D in the lobby .. which to me, is very minor.

 

 

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2314

World > Quest Progression

1/03/13 3:38:44 PM#134
I see what your line of reasoning is but your premise to the whole thing is too presumptuous IMO. There's no way you can know what players of MMOs want, don't want, need or think is important. Again, just look at the changes they did to the world with Cata. They had the internal info to know whether that was a good investment or not and they thought it was.
  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

1/03/13 3:40:13 PM#135
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

You don't need a MMO to have indirect interations. Many non-MMOs have chat channels, so you can "hear" lots of people. You can "inspect" others from the menu in D3, no difference than the inspection you do in orgrimmar in WOW. The *only* difference, in a game like D3, or playing a MP game on steam, is that you don't *see* the 3D toons in the lobby. To me, that is not a huge difference.

Secondly, yes, i am talking about direction interactions. The indirect ones, like you see toons running around, don't add much to gameplay experiences, particularly when it consist of only a very small percentage of play time.

If you spend 10 min in city with this "indirect interaction", and then 2 hours in LFR raid, the 10 min of waiting is not that important. So i am disputing if this *SMALL* part of the game, which btw, many will ignore by watching a youtube video, is desirable.

It certainly does not matter to me. A menu lobby makes zero difference to me. And btw, you can't claim that the raid/dungeon experience is not more important, when most people are playing the game for exactly that.

Quite right, that is why we qq that the game is not massive, 100 people idling in ogrimmar is not different from 100 people idling in a chat channel.

The illusion of a living world comes from meeting people that do something in the world  (and the illusion that the game is massive if there are dozens of people doing things everywhere), it can be benign, like a fisher fishing at a fishing spot or more action packed, like combatting clans sweeping trough the dungeon you are grinding in, occasionally roflstomping you :)

Apart from the launch zones are barren, noone talks in global but bots and all there is left are jokes about Barrens chat as a distant memory and lobby gameplay.

Flame on!

:)

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 6:31:27 PM#136
Originally posted by Aelious
I see what your line of reasoning is but your premise to the whole thing is too presumptuous IMO. There's no way you can know what players of MMOs want, don't want, need or think is important. Again, just look at the changes they did to the world with Cata. They had the internal info to know whether that was a good investment or not and they thought it was.

Well, i will qualify why my opinion about what many mmo players want. By observations. Many i have come across are essentially waiting in a cit waiting for their dungeon or pvp to pop.

dont tell me you dont see that and that is not a norm. If so, their prefered play style is not massive.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19248

 
OP  1/03/13 6:36:53 PM#137
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

You don't need a MMO to have indirect interations. Many non-MMOs have chat channels, so you can "hear" lots of people. You can "inspect" others from the menu in D3, no difference than the inspection you do in orgrimmar in WOW. The *only* difference, in a game like D3, or playing a MP game on steam, is that you don't *see* the 3D toons in the lobby. To me, that is not a huge difference.

Secondly, yes, i am talking about direction interactions. The indirect ones, like you see toons running around, don't add much to gameplay experiences, particularly when it consist of only a very small percentage of play time.

If you spend 10 min in city with this "indirect interaction", and then 2 hours in LFR raid, the 10 min of waiting is not that important. So i am disputing if this *SMALL* part of the game, which btw, many will ignore by watching a youtube video, is desirable.

It certainly does not matter to me. A menu lobby makes zero difference to me. And btw, you can't claim that the raid/dungeon experience is not more important, when most people are playing the game for exactly that.

Quite right, that is why we qq that the game is not massive, 100 people idling in ogrimmar is not different from 100 people idling in a chat channel.

The illusion of a living world comes from meeting people that do something in the world  (and the illusion that the game is massive if there are dozens of people doing things everywhere), it can be benign, like a fisher fishing at a fishing spot or more action packed, like combatting clans sweeping trough the dungeon you are grinding in, occasionally roflstomping you :)

Apart from the launch zones are barren, noone talks in global but bots and all there is left are jokes about Barrens chat as a distant memory and lobby gameplay.

Flame on!

:)

I certainly understand what you want, and this lobby thing is not. 

However, this thread is not about lack of a virtual world. This thread is about this very popular style of lobby based playstyle in mmos.

As pointed out before, there are more event driven instances like sto, and boss fight centric ones like wow. I think it is fun to discuss the pros & cons of how story instances are designed.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10427

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/03/13 7:19:06 PM#138


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by lizardbones You are talking about direct interactions, and ignoring indirect interactions. You directly interact with very few people in game. You indirectly interact with many people in game. One of those indirect interactions is just seeing people running around in the world. I've watched people do a level 1 gnome run across the continents in WoW. They directly interacted with few people, but indirectly interacted with many people. A massive number of people heard the stories inside the game increasing the interactions and the persistent nature of the players' activities. That type of thing would not have been possible in a lobby based game. Except it's certainly possible to directly interact with hundreds of people. I've done it. It was choppy as heck, but it happened. It would not have been possible if the instead of a virtual world the game just had a lobby. So again, is it necessary? No, of course not. Nothing in video games is really necessary. Is it desired? Yes.  
You don't need a MMO to have indirect interations. Many non-MMOs have chat channels, so you can "hear" lots of people. You can "inspect" others from the menu in D3, no difference than the inspection you do in orgrimmar in WOW. The *only* difference, in a game like D3, or playing a MP game on steam, is that you don't *see* the 3D toons in the lobby. To me, that is not a huge difference.

Secondly, yes, i am talking about direction interactions. The indirect ones, like you see toons running around, don't add much to gameplay experiences, particularly when it consist of only a very small percentage of play time.

If you spend 10 min in city with this "indirect interaction", and then 2 hours in LFR raid, the 10 min of waiting is not that important. So i am disputing if this *SMALL* part of the game, which btw, many will ignore by watching a youtube video, is desirable.

It certainly does not matter to me. A menu lobby makes zero difference to me. And btw, you can't claim that the raid/dungeon experience is not more important, when most people are playing the game for exactly that.




I haven't claimed that any particular thing is more or less important than anything else. I'm saying I agree that the virtual world bit isn't necessary for games to be fun. It's entirely possible to have just as much fun in a lobby game (like D3) as a virtual world game (like WoW), just not for everyone. Given a choice between hanging around in a game lobby and hanging around in a virtual world, there are people who prefer to hang around in a virtual world, even if the entire rest of the game is exactly the same.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  ice-vortex

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 906

1/03/13 7:37:04 PM#139
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Aelious
I see what your line of reasoning is but your premise to the whole thing is too presumptuous IMO. There's no way you can know what players of MMOs want, don't want, need or think is important. Again, just look at the changes they did to the world with Cata. They had the internal info to know whether that was a good investment or not and they thought it was.

Well, i will qualify why my opinion about what many mmo players want. By observations. Many i have come across are essentially waiting in a cit waiting for their dungeon or pvp to pop.

dont tell me you dont see that and that is not a norm. If so, their prefered play style is not massive.

Unfortunately this is all too common, including Guild Wars 2. People keep complaining that the world is empty of people in Guild Wars 2, and it is. The only place you see a lot of people is in Lion's Arch as they look for a fractals group. Now that the primary dungeon can be accessed from the city, they never leave the city at all. Yet there are calls for a Dungeon Finder because they don't want to sit around in the city for longer than they have to. That's the state of the modern MMO.

  madazz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/07/03
Posts: 1300

1/03/13 10:48:47 PM#140
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by lizardbones


MMOs being able to encompass small scale game play doesn't mean the massively multiplayer aspect of MMOs is no longer necessary. It just means that smaller scale game play is possible within the context of a massively multiplayer game.

 

Tell me, for pve gameplay, how necessary is massive gameplay. In fact, take WOW, LOTRO, DDO .. and another huge list of MMOs .. there is zero massive pve gameplay. All the gameplay is in small group dungeons, and raids, and solo/group quests. None is massive.

The ONLY massive pve gameplay is staring at each other in a lobby (city), and AH.

In many of these games, not even the pvp gameplay is massive.

If you look at the percentage of time players spend in small group gameplay vs "massive" gameplay, "massive" gameplay don't seem necessary at all.

In fact, when i was still playing WOW, I have almost never engaged in massive pve gameplay because there is none, except may be world boss, which is a) few and far in-between, b) most people i know (and myself) has little interests in it.

Now i am playing some STO .. and once again, where is the "massive" gameplay? There is none and none is necessary to enjoy the game.

Why are you on an MMO forum if you don't want to play an MMO? Sure you try out STO and PS2...but otherwise you seem to have a disdain for a true MMO experience (ie; in game with a massive amount of people). Yet here you argue all you want to do is play a game with literally 4 to 5 people. You are grasping at straws for some exceptionally strange reason when you try to call a 5 man game an MMO. Also, a lobby is not a massive multiplayer GAME. It is a massive LOBBY. So while a game may have a massive component, it doesn't make it a massive multiplayer GAME. If you want to join MMO's and do horrible horrible quests (horrible compared to single player games for the most part, few exceptions), then you just have bad taste. You basically want boring MMO style quests in a 4-5 player game it sounds like. LAME.

Now before you try to twist the argument and ignore my question about why you are here as you are obviously anti MMO, I admit I called the quests horrible, and for the most part they are. I enjoy MMO's for the MASSIVE part of it. I am no longer getting that because they are slowly devolving into basic multiplayer games. Some good questing can be found in TSW in my opinion, a few in GW2 as well. Otherwise, bleh. Now that you understand why I called the quests horrible but still love MMO's, what kind of straw man argument are you going to create? Maybe a newzoo stat that you don't understand as you don't have the data? 

I recommend Kingdoms of Amular to you. It is abundant with stories and MMO quests in an MMO style instanced world with no people! Try it out! I think you'll love it. And you can rest assured it has a massive component because there are forums for the game too!

With that said, I'd also suggest you head on over to pcgamer.com, gamespy.com , neogaf, or even gamespot.com to discuss the non mmo games you enjoy. Furthermore, we have a gaming section here too that may help you find like minded folks. See, you can stay on this site, enjoy the articles, but you really need to stop arguing for games to be limited to 4-5 players... its getting old buddy.

I will admit, I am VERY tired of your anti-mmo stance. However, I'd still buy you a beer while we argue over it. HHAahhAahha

12 Pages First « 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 » Last Search