Originally posted by Fearum
Most people just use a macro or some form of self botting anyway to level in sandbox games so you really don't need time.

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

 

 Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.

I don't have the time like I used to when I first played UO or really got in to Shadowbane and besieging cities.

I'd like to think I'd have a healthier habit with MMOs like that this time around. I realize I'd not have the best of everything, but I could & would like to contribute to a real team-themed living world MMO again.

Or so I'd like to think. I know I can find enough free time to easily see all the themes most MMORPGs now have to offer in a few months.

Something with a longer scope than that is still something I'd desire. Even if I couldn't tackle it like my 18 year old self could.

Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

I haven't felt any manner of time pressure in any sandbox-style MMO that I've played. I end up leaving themeparks because of the time commitment that endgame requires since there's always only one path (murderous maniac) and the msot common end is raiding. Any game can have content that requires serious time commitments, but the sandbox-style games seem to offer me a wider array of things to do.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

Word.

UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

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Originally posted by Fishmitts

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Originally posted by fat_taddler My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.   Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game. Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?  

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 Even if you only have an hour to play thats fine, now c'mere and help me build this stupid wall.. It should only take about an hour.

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and your 3 year old falls down and hurts himself which means you have to suddenly go AFK and causes you to die. The harsh death penalty sets you back a week.

Sorry, but sandbox.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

I haven't felt any manner of time pressure in any sandbox-style MMO that I've played. I end up leaving themeparks because of the time commitment that endgame requires since there's always only one path (murderous maniac) and the msot common end is raiding. Any game can have content that requires serious time commitments, but the sandbox-style games seem to offer me a wider array of things to do.

I just hate that there is only 1 serious contender in the sandbox play space right now (EvE)- and though it should be a perfect fit for me - the game bores me to tears and I absolutely hate the advancement system.

I gave the game months of my time and never really felt like I accomplished anything...

Where as the most fun and amazing sandbox MMO I ever played (UO) I played for years and it was fun straight out the gate and continued to be fun for years...

I'm really hopeful that AA will bridge the gap and be a modern AAA sandbox (sandpark or themebox?) that is actually high quality and fun right away - but I worry the progression will be too grindy and rely too much on pointless throw away quests.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

Word.

UO was rarely ever time comsuming. If anything, it contained all those evil, taboo things that get you to the fun faster (GGS, fast travel to any point, low reqs for mounts/housing/ownership).

EXACTLY.

It all depends on how the game is built.  If the game doesn't require large blocks of time in one sitting then all should be well.  It doesn't matter how long overall it takes to complete a goal unless you're the impatient type.

Personally, I like games that I know will take a long long time as long as I can play in small increments.  That's why Eve was perfect for my play style.

Freedom in a sandbox game certainly doesn't have to mean everything takes forever to do.

Originally posted by Angier2758
VG's population issue is partly the players themselves.  Lots of big egos for such a limited population; you'd think they'd be kinder.

Rubbish, i've played for nearly six years and Vanguards community is very welcoming.

In some ways that's a tough question.

I would make more time for a game if I loved it. I set aside a LOT of time for Lineage 2 when I was playing.

I also want an extremely long leveling curve. However, I dont' know if I actually have the time that I used to have.

Having said that, I don't have (or want) a family and once I finish my work I have my time to use for myself. But I also like to socialize with friends, hang with my girlfriend, do things in the city, etc.

My thought is that if it's a good sandbox I will want to play, even though i'm a bit behind in the leveling curve.

Either you're grinding mobs, grinding quests, grinding dungeons, or grinding PvP.  Regardless of the wrapping, you're performing some repetitive function to acquire XP so you can get that extra skill point or hit that desired level.

It doesn't matter if the game is Sandbox or Themepark.  What matters is the enjoyment. 

Thempark games get boring because you have to do the same quests from Point A to Point B.  That means if you like alts, you have to do it again.

Generally speaking, since the last Sandbox game I played was EQ, Sandbox games get boring because you have to kill the same mobs over and over.  Sure, you can tackle different areas, but eventually players will find "that spot" that provides the most efficient access to loot and mobs.  AKA camps.  Also, generally speaking, mobs will have a set amount of XP.  So with slow "pulls" it will seem grindy.  The best way around this?  XP Chains

There is no right or wrong answer.  Either you like Sandbox or you don't.  Either you like Themepark, or you don't.

IMHO of course, Sandbox is much more enjoyable in the long run.  Themepark is ok the first go around, but the same ride gets old...quickly.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

Eventually you will roll something else, but you can always twink! (30 Rogue in a level 39+ zone soloing Frost Giants)

For the most part, I agree.  There is a lot more replayability, in my eyes, in a Sandbox than there is in a Themepark game.  Ouf course, having something to shoot for beyond cap is what is needed.  I think that is what makes EQ and EQ2 so enjoyable...Alternate Advancement.  So even at cap, you have something to look forward to.

Of course, I haven't played EQ in like 5 or 6 years, so I'm not sure what I would do if I had a more modern Sandbox to play with.

Originally posted by NorseGod

Originally posted by ShakyMo

why does a sandbox have to be hardcore

theres no law saying you cant make a less time consuming,more casual sandbox

complexity of game play and grind are 2 different things.

But that is not what some people are asking for. Some of us want hardcore. There are hundreds of games out there that fit your needs. The rest of us are asking for 1.

Yep, one great sandbox that will last us years. One that you only have to roll 1 character and never feel the need to roll an alt every month because you "beat the game already playing class X".

There was a time it use to be like this. Some of us want to re-live that.

 My capitalist rant of the day:

"You", and I speak of the "us" in your statement, represent a small minority of the genera. I know this because the isn't a game designed for "you", your words. If "you" were a bigger group, "you" would have garnered the attention of the developers, since devolpers only want money.(This also answers the question of "why do developers constant make 'WoW Clones'?"

Originally posted by fat_taddler

My first MMO was a sandbox and ever since the Themepark style games took over the genre, I've been hoping that  we'd see the return of AAA sandbox titles.  

Now that we're starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel,  I honestly don't think I'd be able to carve out enough time these days to really enjoy a sandbox style game.

Most of my buddies seem to be in the same boat which begs the question, are there enough people with the time (and patience) to make the possible resurgence of sandbox style games successful?

 

 one of the great things about sandbox games is you and your buddies who dont have alot of time can play together and have fun doing what ever you want durring the time you have.

you dont have to sit there and figure out what quest each of you have and worry about being able to do a quest together because in a sandbox game the quest is what ever you make it.