Kinda yes and kinda no... 

I bought Assassins Creed 3 for ps3 so I could play on my 3d tv... the 3d sucked my ass and the game had some slow downs, etc. I then got a digital copy for my b-day for the PC. It ran soooo much better on my PC and looked outstanding due to the additional graphics options I could pump through my 7970.  Also, I'm playing it on the PC with my Xbox controller. It also looks nicer on my 27" monitor then the 55" tv. 

So, while I like the idea of gaming on my console, in practice, it ended up a better experience on my PC. Some of the more modern MMO's and even older ones like D&D online do support controllers. There are also programs you can use to map a controller to the games that don't. 

Originally posted by killahh
There's a reason the us gov uses ps3's slaved yo make supercomputers.

Good in-depth games?

Fallout series
Oblivion
Anytime
farcry
ect.

The reason games seem dumber is not the consoles or pc, but the idiots behind them.
Having both a kickass watercooled computer and a ps3, I must say, between the two, I do like sitting on my couch playing games on my 60 inch tv better.

All the games you listed have a PC version which is superior in graphics and modability, plus bugs get fixed faster.

Originally posted by killahh

Having both a kickass watercooled computer and a ps3, I must say, between the two, I do like sitting on my couch playing games on my 60 inch tv better.

You do know you can hook that supposedly kickass PC up to that 60in screen and still kick back on the couch with wireless control...

I want an MMO specifically for consoles - not a 3rd rate port from the PC version (just like PC gamers (which I am too) very much hate the 3rd rate console ports).

It's always easy to tell if a game was made for PC then ported to console or vice versa.

I want an MMO specifially made and designed exclussively for console from a AAA dev studio.

-Fully optimized engine/network code for the platform (identical hardware is a + here)

-Integrated voice chat - I may be a MMO veteran but I'm sick of text box chat in MMOs or having to use Vent/TS

-Fully optimized control scheme

And yes, I've hooked my PC up to my TV and played with Mouse/Keyboard and yes I've hooked up a game controller and tried both first party game support (TERA) and 3rd party controller support (WoW) and if the game isn't designed for controller 100% it's just clunky.

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Originally posted by gordiflu Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter. MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware. I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.  

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Wow... just wow. This argument again? If it not for the consoles, the gaming market would be much, much smaller; ergo, there would less money in the industry, and less money spent on technology advancement. Not only that, but even if you were right and consoles did nothing but hinder technology, there would still be a roof (not far from where we currently are). High-end computer hardware is expensive, both to manufacture and for consumers to buy. And the market for it wouldn't be big enough on its own without the software support driven by consoles. So no, it wouldn't be a super-happy gaming future without consoles. Not to mention that games are getting crazy-expensive. We're advancing too quickly as is, and developers can hardly keep their doors open because of development costs. Your argument stems from a microscopic view of high-end PCs being more powerful than consoles at the end of their cycle, and somewhat hindering graphical fidelity. However, most games which are multi-platform are designed to go beyond consoles... like all of them. I have a solid gaming PC and there are games that I can't run at max settings. For some reason, people seem to think that graphical advancement stops for the duration of each console cycle. It doesn't. Just compare any launch game with a game now.

Secondly, I really dislike the "dumbing down" phrase. It's usually just used by people who don't like something, but can't come up with any reasoning as to why. And the fact that you're blaming consoles for the "dumbing down" of a, nearly exclusive, PC genre is hilarious. There are plenty of "deep" games around, but you have to think about how much larger the industry is now. Games, as a whole, used to be pretty niche; and the fact is that you're not going to be able to market a ridiculously complicated game to a mass audience. It's always been that way. The only reason complicated games migrate to the PC is because of the installed base. Back in the 90's, during the PC boom, people realized that they could make almost any kind of game and instantly have some kind of audience. They didn't need mass appeal, because there are infinite-million people with PCs. It's not due to some mystical dumbing down pattern.

Lastly, games shouldn't be needlessly complicated. They should be designed to fit the intended experience. Many times "deep" mechanics just bog down the game or feel out of place, and senselessly increase the learning curve. Rainbow Moon is a perfect example of this. There's nothing wrong with a game that's inherently simple, and this elitist attitude that there is, irritates me. There are still plenty of over-complicated games out there, so there's no need to complain about the contrary. The notion that console gamers can infect the glorious PC master race is pretty laughable.

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Originally posted by DeniZg I've played SWTOR and GW2 with Xbox controller from day 1. Plug the controller, set up the keybinds via Xpadder or similar app and you're good to go. I've heard some rumors that GW2 is getting controller support in 2013, but I'm not holding my breath on it. Also, you should check Defiance, upcoming cross platform third person MMORPG shooter.

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I have Xpadder (it's a great program), and I've played several MMOs with a controller, including Rift and GW2. Yeah, it works, but it's far from perfect, and it takes a lot of time to setup. Plus, there are always issues. For instance, in GW2, there is a slight delay for when you right-click the mouse to move the camera before the cursor disappears. That was actually a huge problem. I had to redesign my configuration and even download another third-party program to get around that. Yes, there are options now, but it would be nice if there was a good interface for a controller.

Originally posted by blognorg

 

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Originally posted by gordiflu Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter. MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware. I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.  

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Wow... just wow. This argument again? If it not for the consoles, the gaming market would be much, much smaller; ergo, there would less money in the industry, and less money spent on technology advancement. Not only that, but even if you were right and consoles did nothing but hinder technology, there would still be a roof (not far from where we currently are). High-end computer hardware is expensive, both to manufacture and for consumers to buy. And the market for it wouldn't be big enough on its own without the software support driven by consoles. So no, it wouldn't be a super-happy gaming future without consoles. Not to mention that games are getting crazy-expensive. We're advancing too quickly as is, and developers can hardly keep their doors open because of development costs. Your argument stems from a microscopic view of high-end PCs being more powerful than consoles at the end of their cycle, and somewhat hindering graphical fidelity. However, most games which are multi-platform are designed to go beyond consoles... like all of them. I have a solid gaming PC and there are games that I can't run at max settings. For some reason, people seem to think that graphical advancement stops for the duration of each console cycle. It doesn't. Just compare any launch game with a game now.

Secondly, I really dislike the "dumbing down" phrase. It's usually just used by people who don't like something, but can't come up with any reasoning as to why. And the fact that you're blaming consoles for the "dumbing down" of a, nearly exclusive, PC genre is hilarious. There are plenty of "deep" games around, but you have to think about how much larger the industry is now. Games, as a whole, used to be pretty niche; and the fact is that you're not going to be able to market a ridiculously complicated game to a mass audience. It's always been that way. The only reason complicated games migrate to the PC is because of the installed base. Back in the 90's, during the PC boom, people realized that they could make almost any kind of game and instantly have some kind of audience. They didn't need mass appeal, because there are infinite-million people with PCs. It's not due to some mystical dumbing down pattern.

Lastly, games shouldn't be needlessly complicated. They should be designed to fit the intended experience. Many times "deep" mechanics just bog down the game or feel out of place, and senselessly increase the learning curve. Rainbow Moon is a perfect example of this. There's nothing wrong with a game that's inherently simple, and this elitist attitude that there is, irritates me. There are still plenty of over-complicated games out there, so there's no need to complain about the contrary. The notion that console gamers can infect the glorious PC master race is pretty laughable.

Star Citizen´s extremelly successful crowdfunding campaign, openly saying that it's going to be computers only, and not any computer but a beast of a computer, invalidates pretty much all your wall of text.

Most MMO's use a lot of key-mappings, so you'd have to design a console MMO with fewer buttons in mind.  Something like Guild Wars 2 would carry over just fine, but anything more complex would be a nightmare.

For what it's worth, I have played WoW using a PS3 controller before, out of curiosity.  It was doable, but only for certain classes.  And PvP was entirely out of the question.  There were also issues with the fact that you simply need a mouse for many things, like selecting items.

Originally posted by gordiflu

Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter.

MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware.

I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.

 

       Yeah I dont understand why someone would want a MMO to be severely limited by the console either......

Originally posted by gordiflu

Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter.

MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware.

I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.

 

  Well this is the least thought-out thing I've ever read.  To begin with, neither medium is responsible for your shift in the gaming core.  THAT happened because the average gamer is an older demographic now.  Older and with far more responsibilities in life.  Where the curve used to be 10-18 it is now 20-25 and that is around the time most people start kicking out babies.  Babies kill free time, and that happens to be why you are seeing a large rise in quick consume games.

  MMO gaming has gotten simpler because the market is larger now.  Before it was entirely based off of serious, full time gamers (whom also tended to lie within the aforementioned demographic before change).  Now, thanks to large commercial success like WoW and a couple others, the MMO audience is wider.  Very few people LIKE to play virtual spreadsheets, (I actually DO like that...) so the developers had to find ways to rework the systems in these games to cater to people who just wanted to play a game and not have to break out a graphing calculator each time new gear dropped.

  Finally, you will NEVER have a time where PC gaming is superior.  The trouble with PC gaming is that there are entirely too many possible hardware configurations.  The hardware market refuses to standardize in an intelligent way.  So when developers sit down to make a console game, they already know what ever user is working wth and can maximize THAT setup for optimal playability.  PC game creators have to consider everything on the market, from what is popular NOW to what was popular 5 years ago to what the average "non-computer-savvy" user might buy from Best Buy.  I'm a living example of why PC gaming fails.  I have a really nice laptop.  I can play most things on high settings.  However the particular video card I have is exactly ONE which seems to have issues with how Minecraft is dealt with inside Java and I cannot play that game without crashing constantly.  Yes, I have looked up every possible solution.  No, none of them worked.  I even tried a few solutions of my own before finally looking up my specific video card and reading about how many people had similar issues.

  The bottom line is that you are obviously blind and oblivious to what is actually going on in the real world. 

  That said, I'd play a console MMO today if I could.  I used to, EQOA on the PS2.  Loved it.  I also think that the freemium, F2P market setup would work perfectly from that medium.

@ Gordiflu

Could you define depth? I just want to make sure that first, you actually know what it means. And second what specific type of depth are we talking about? You mean like mechanics? Technology? What?

Just so you know, I'm already thinking of console games with depth. So choose your definition and category wisely ^.~

Originally posted by Gishgeron

Originally posted by gordiflu

Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter.

MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware.

I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.

 

 

  Well this is the least thought-out thing I've ever read.  To begin with, neither medium is responsible for your shift in the gaming core.  THAT happened because the average gamer is an older demographic now.  Older and with far more responsibilities in life.  Where the curve used to be 10-18 it is now 20-25 and that is around the time most people start kicking out babies.  Babies kill free time, and that happens to be why you are seeing a large rise in quick consume games.

  MMO gaming has gotten simpler because the market is larger now.  Before it was entirely based off of serious, full time gamers (whom also tended to lie within the aforementioned demographic before change).  Now, thanks to large commercial success like WoW and a couple others, the MMO audience is wider.  Very few people LIKE to play virtual spreadsheets, (I actually DO like that...) so the developers had to find ways to rework the systems in these games to cater to people who just wanted to play a game and not have to break out a graphing calculator each time new gear dropped.

  Finally, you will NEVER have a time where PC gaming is superior.  The trouble with PC gaming is that there are entirely too many possible hardware configurations.  The hardware market refuses to standardize in an intelligent way.  So when developers sit down to make a console game, they already know what ever user is working wth and can maximize THAT setup for optimal playability.  PC game creators have to consider everything on the market, from what is popular NOW to what was popular 5 years ago to what the average "non-computer-savvy" user might buy from Best Buy.  I'm a living example of why PC gaming fails.  I have a really nice laptop.  I can play most things on high settings.  However the particular video card I have is exactly ONE which seems to have issues with how Minecraft is dealt with inside Java and I cannot play that game without crashing constantly.  Yes, I have looked up every possible solution.  No, none of them worked.  I even tried a few solutions of my own before finally looking up my specific video card and reading about how many people had similar issues.

  The bottom line is that you are obviously blind and oblivious to what is actually going on in the real world. 

  That said, I'd play a console MMO today if I could.  I used to, EQOA on the PS2.  Loved it.  I also think that the freemium, F2P market setup would work perfectly from that medium.

Did you notice the word "partially" on the second sentence of my short post?

See, while you are right, you are not totally right. You are missing a few things.

Also, younger kids play way more video-games than we did when we were kids(I ll be 40 tomorrow). While we may not have the time, they do. And while they are kids, they are not stupid. Many of them are more computer savvy than we are and certainly are than we were at their age.

Computer gaming is superior becouse computerscan do more things than consoles. That is a fact. Check the games that have been listed here, like Oblivion or Fallout. The PC version has better graphic resolution and is moddable. Old hits like Diablo II or Starcraft would have not worked on any console of the time, not to mention even older ones like UO or AC.

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Originally posted by gordiflu

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Originally posted by blognorg  

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Originally posted by gordiflu Consoles have been hindering and slowing down technology progress in computer games already for a few years. They are also partially responsible for many computer games getting dumber, easier and shorter. Specially shorter. MMOs have also been getting dumber easier and shorter as an indirect result of this mindset change in gamers and developers. Console MMOs will only accelerate the process, with newer MMOs beeing limited by console's inferior hardware. I actually wish all console gaming failed big time, so we could have superior PC games. Unfortunately I am aware this won't happen. Beta was superior to VHS. Minidisk was superior to CD. You get the idea, don't you.  

---

    Wow... just wow. This argument again? If it not for the consoles, the gaming market would be much, much smaller; ergo, there would less money in the industry, and less money spent on technology advancement. Not only that, but even if you were right and consoles did nothing but hinder technology, there would still be a roof (not far from where we currently are). High-end computer hardware is expensive, both to manufacture and for consumers to buy. And the market for it wouldn't be big enough on its own without the software support driven by consoles. So no, it wouldn't be a super-happy gaming future without consoles. Not to mention that games are getting crazy-expensive. We're advancing too quickly as is, and developers can hardly keep their doors open because of development costs. Your argument stems from a microscopic view of high-end PCs being more powerful than consoles at the end of their cycle, and somewhat hindering graphical fidelity. However, most games which are multi-platform are designed to go beyond consoles... like all of them. I have a solid gaming PC and there are games that I can't run at max settings. For some reason, people seem to think that graphical advancement stops for the duration of each console cycle. It doesn't. Just compare any launch game with a game now. Secondly, I really dislike the "dumbing down" phrase. It's usually just used by people who don't like something, but can't come up with any reasoning as to why. And the fact that you're blaming consoles for the "dumbing down" of a, nearly exclusive, PC genre is hilarious. There are plenty of "deep" games around, but you have to think about how much larger the industry is now. Games, as a whole, used to be pretty niche; and the fact is that you're not going to be able to market a ridiculously complicated game to a mass audience. It's always been that way. The only reason complicated games migrate to the PC is because of the installed base. Back in the 90's, during the PC boom, people realized that they could make almost any kind of game and instantly have some kind of audience. They didn't need mass appeal, because there are infinite-million people with PCs. It's not due to some mystical dumbing down pattern. Lastly, games shouldn't be needlessly complicated. They should be designed to fit the intended experience. Many times "deep" mechanics just bog down the game or feel out of place, and senselessly increase the learning curve. Rainbow Moon is a perfect example of this. There's nothing wrong with a game that's inherently simple, and this elitist attitude that there is, irritates me. There are still plenty of over-complicated games out there, so there's no need to complain about the contrary. The notion that console gamers can infect the glorious PC master race is pretty laughable.

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Star Citizen´s extremelly successful crowdfunding campaign, openly saying that it's going to be computers only, and not any computer but a beast of a computer, invalidates pretty much all your wall of text.

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Um, no. No, it doesn't. You're talking about one game, one plot point, the exception. There's also the possibility that it wouldn't have existed without consoles. You've clearly missed my point entirely, which is not uncommon with people whom share your opinion. The gaming industry wouldn't be where it is today without consoles. Not to belittle Star Citizen (as I'm actually a supporter), but I wouldn't classify it as 'extremely successful'. Successful for what it is, yes, but it's still just a niche game. And how many supporters were first introduced to gaming via consoles; probably many. You're not seeing the big picture; you just seem to be an elitist who likes to condemn those whom don't think as you do.

Originally posted by Rydeson
     I'll pass on any console MMO..  That is part of the issue I have now with gaming is that the devs have wanted to date the "console" gamer and their wallets.. It is why genre has changed over time, and not for the better in my opinion..  MMO gaming is starting to feel like arena football.. It's NOT FOOTBALL dammit.. lolo

oh but it is sir...its bad football  :)

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Originally posted by ShakyMo If its just controllers you need get xpadder or joy2key. I've set up a ps3 arcade stick for planetside 2 in such a way. Use the stick for wasd, mouse for looking.

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I mentioned in a previous post that I've done this with several games. I got Xpadder some time ago, and it has made gaming more enjoyable with some games (I probably wouldn't have gotten nearly as far as I did in Rift had I not been able to use a controller). However, like I mentioned, it's often a lot of work to set up a control scheme that works well, sometimes with several caveats. First-person shooters are actually one genre in which I prefer mouse and keyboard... for multi-player, anyway. I played through Far Cry 3 and Rage with a controller. Controllers have a lot of potential, and anyone who has used Xpadder will tell you that, but I would like to see some interface support, for once.

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Originally posted by asmkm22 Most MMO's use a lot of key-mappings, so you'd have to design a console MMO with fewer buttons in mind.  Something like Guild Wars 2 would carry over just fine, but anything more complex would be a nightmare. For what it's worth, I have played WoW using a PS3 controller before, out of curiosity.  It was doable, but only for certain classes.  And PvP was entirely out of the question.  There were also issues with the fact that you simply need a mouse for many things, like selecting items.

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I agree with you somewhat, as it's the basis for my argument. My argument being that an interface designed for a controller would be better than they are now (for controller use). I played Rift (a well-accepted WoW clone), and I did fine with it. Actually, I mainly did PvP, and I did pretty well (usually in the top 5%-10%). Any shortcomings had to do with me, as a player. I bet the people I played with/against had no idea that I was using a controller. But yeah, there were some things that I did need the cursor for (like selecting things), which isn't the best with an analog stick. However, these would be issues if the interface was designed for a controller.