Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

Originally posted by mrrshann618

What is really funny is that I'm now paying FAR LESS than I would have to play more games than I would have if I had a sub to them all.

Big reason for this. I do not feel the need to open my wallet at every shiney new PoC the cash shop puts out.

I do support the games that I like

LOTRO has recieved the most of my cash as f2p, however I've played since launch and I'm now paying far less per month than I would have if it did not go f2p.

After that it is the Kingsisle games (Pirate and Wizards 101) becuase I have a LARGE batch of crowns that I divide out between 3 people. For the ammount of time my family (as a whole) has played these games we have saved a considerable chunk of change by not subbing.

STO is last on the list. I think I have spent $20 since f2p. GEE sure is costing me more than a sub since f2p launch.

 

I understand that self control is a problem. That is a reason why I laugh heartily when people complain about money problems just after they tell me they are spending hundreds of dollars a day on various items. 

And this is a concern for me.  MMOs have become bite sized morsels.  Players pop in when there's something new, eat it up like locusts and then move onto the next crop (MMO).  F2P I think exasperates the problem because it doesn't encourage loyalty.  It only encourages people to play when new content is added.

I like to believe with subs, the devs try to create a game that encourages people to stay month to month, developing long term goals.

Originally posted by Myria

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Which MMOs charge more than $20 for premium monthly service?

Fallen Earth's "Commander" monthly is $29.99/mo.

Commander is a VIP tier with three other tiers below it:

• FREE
• 9.99
• 14.99

http://fallenearth.gamersfirst.com/2011/09/free2play-details-and-more.html

A far cry from the OP's claim:

"I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game"

You're really going to pitch that level of choice as a bad thing or as price gouging? Some of you will go to some serious lengths to hate on F2P.

good grief I don't know any games that charge that for a premium. That is why god gave us a brain, so we can go man I being nickled and dimed to death. If I see a game like that its time to move on.

Originally posted by erictlewis

good grief I don't know any games that charge that for a premium. That is why god gave us a brain, so we can go man I being nickled and dimed to death. If I see a game like that its time to move on.

I'm starting to think the ones that complain about how costly F2P is are the ones with serious self control problems.

I see it more of a "I'm now an adult, I have kids, I do not have the time to spend on 2+ mmo's"

Now however I can visit LOTRO as I see fit, without spending a sub

I can now Visit SWTOR whenever I want without a Sub.

I can now Visit Fallen earth without....

You get the picture

I have roughly 4 different types of MMO's that I play based on my mood, however I'm not going to spend $60 a month on the off chance that I want to play one of those during the time that I can actually play.

Now howeve I will support a game I like by purchasing credits, even if I do not use them right away. I build them up for when cool expansion stuff comes out, kind of like banking them for later. LOTRO is exactly that way for me.

It may not be a monthly sub, but obviously people like me are keeping Turbine in business.

Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game .... when did this becoime ok to do?

 

I guess this is the victory lap F2P beating P2P or something: now that F2P has is clearly winning the battle VS P2P it dosen't have to keep competitive on comparable subscriptions pricing.

 

[mod edit]: the whole reason F2P took off was because it was more accessible and affordable than P2P, shit gets too bad people will just shift back in the other direction ... espacally if going B2P works out for TSW and western P2P holdouts realise that there are other options to stay competitive.

To answer your question, it became ok the first time a player decided it was worth it to spend that much a month.

It will continue to be ok as long as that player, and others like them, continue to spend that much a month.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

 

 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

 

 

 

You're using the worst ftp model there is and you're assuming everyone wan't access to everything.How about looking at EQ2 that gives you the game up to lvl 90 I believe for free.Once you buy the races and classes you want,plus bag unlocks you're set.You can play to 90 with mastercrafted gear and the spells you have.So you won't need to spend anything else until end game.

Pretty sweet deal to me.Pretty sure EQ1 and Vanguard are close to this.

When you only buy what you actually need ftp is much cheaper,even with SWTOR's model.Why unlock things you don't need?If you need everything then sub.

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

 

 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

 

 

 

You're using the worst ftp model there is and you're assuming everyone wan't access to everything.How about looking at EQ2 that gives you the game up to lvl 90 I believe for free.Once you buy the races and classes you want,plus bag unlocks you're set.You can play to 90 with mastercrafted gear and the spells you have.So you won't need to spend anything else until end game.

Pretty sweet deal to me.Pretty sure EQ1 and Vanguard are close to this.

When you only buy what you actually need ftp is much cheaper,even with SWTOR's model.Why unlock things you don't need?If you need everything then sub.

I agree there are good models like Planet Side 2, but that isn't what people are complaining about. People are complaining about the assinine f2p models like SWTOR. 

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

 

 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

 

 

 

You're using the worst ftp model there is and you're assuming everyone wan't access to everything.How about looking at EQ2 that gives you the game up to lvl 90 I believe for free.Once you buy the races and classes you want,plus bag unlocks you're set.You can play to 90 with mastercrafted gear and the spells you have.So you won't need to spend anything else until end game.

Pretty sweet deal to me.Pretty sure EQ1 and Vanguard are close to this.

When you only buy what you actually need ftp is much cheaper,even with SWTOR's model.Why unlock things you don't need?If you need everything then sub.

I agree there are good models like Planet Side 2, but that isn't what people are complaining about. People are complaining about the assinine f2p models like SWTOR. 

 

Yea I agree there,it is by far the worst model I've seen and it really is gouging people (sp?).

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

Your logic is horrible.  You can't take the example of one game and apply it to every game.  I don't play games, subscription or sub-free, that would require that much of investment.  It's like those sub games that make you purchase each and every expansion just to get caught up to date in addition to their sub fee.

None of the sub-free games I play (GW2, TSW, EQ2, STO, GW1, LotRO, RaiderZ, TL2) require that I pay that per month to enjoy the game to its fullest.  My only suggestion is don't play and pay for games that gouge.

I've spent spent nearly $300 on rift since release.  All of that will be gone and useless after my subscription expires in March.  The only games that have cost me that much were LotRO (most of that from the sub days) and GW1 ($250 - $300 over the last 7 years).  I still have access to all the content in my sub free games and can still login and enjoy them.  I can't say the same for my sub based games.

Like I've said, I don't really care if you like subs or not.  I don't and can play more for less money.  It works great for me.

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

 

 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

 

 

 

You're using the worst ftp model there is and you're assuming everyone wan't access to everything.How about looking at EQ2 that gives you the game up to lvl 90 I believe for free.Once you buy the races and classes you want,plus bag unlocks you're set.You can play to 90 with mastercrafted gear and the spells you have.So you won't need to spend anything else until end game.

Pretty sweet deal to me.Pretty sure EQ1 and Vanguard are close to this.

When you only buy what you actually need ftp is much cheaper,even with SWTOR's model.Why unlock things you don't need?If you need everything then sub.

There is far worse that TOR, i point at Atlantica Online as one example.

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

 

 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

 

 

 

 

You're using the worst ftp model there is and you're assuming everyone wan't access to everything.How about looking at EQ2 that gives you the game up to lvl 90 I believe for free.Once you buy the races and classes you want,plus bag unlocks you're set.You can play to 90 with mastercrafted gear and the spells you have.So you won't need to spend anything else until end game.

Pretty sweet deal to me.Pretty sure EQ1 and Vanguard are close to this.

When you only buy what you actually need ftp is much cheaper,even with SWTOR's model.Why unlock things you don't need?If you need everything then sub.

There is far worse that TOR, i point at Atlantica Online as one example.

I've only played maybe 30 min of that game.

The question I have is,do you need to spend that much to progress in the game?Or is that for convenience/to be competetive?I'm betting it's convenience and you can actually play pretty cheap.

You are not buying food at inflated prices to feed your family with. These are entertainment products and at the end of the day, the value of said entertainment is up to the individual.

There is no right or wrong pricing scheme. You weigh the value of what you get and make a choice based on that alone.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Onomas

Shouldnt have cried about a 15$ a month or 50 cents a day sub lol. Now you are stuck with outrageous f2p cash shops which more go pay to win lol.

 

Actually it's the SUBSCRIPTION that costs more not the F2P.  I spend nowhere near that much a month per game for any of my games.

But, since it's a sub, what's wrong with paying a dollar a day.  I mean if 50 cents is pocket change surely another 50 is peanuts as well.  Why are the sub people complaining about the cost of their subs?

To get the same out of a f2p as a pay to play you are spending a great deal more than that $15 a month. 

Lets look at SWTOR, probably the worste example but... lets use it anyways. 

As a free to play player in SWTOR it's first going to cost you $100-$180 off the rip to unlock everything. Then it's going to cost you an additional $56 a month to get access to everything lol. 

"You have to pay for four different passes to unlock four of the game's five content avenues (all but the story) and each weekly pass is 240 cartel coins. As each cartel coin costs a little over 0.727 cents USD each, 240 per pass, four passes per character, two characters, four passes a month = 7680CC, or $55.84.

Now obviously, no sane person is going to actually pay $56 a month for SWTOR. They're going to pay the $15 subscription fee, or they're not going to pay at all. Which makes one thing very painfully obvious: SWTOR's F2P isn't meant to be a free-to-play MMORPG; it's meant to be an excessively contrived demo to get people to sign up for subscriptions."

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/183525/the_burning_of_star_wars_the_old_.php

Your logic is horrible.  You can't take the example of one game and apply it to every game.  I don't play games, subscription or sub-free, that would require that much of investment.  It's like those sub games that make you purchase each and every expansion just to get caught up to date in addition to their sub fee.

None of the sub-free games I play (GW2, TSW, EQ2, STO, GW1, LotRO, RaiderZ, TL2) require that I pay that per month to enjoy the game to its fullest.  My only suggestion is don't play and pay for games that gouge.

I've spent spent nearly $300 on rift since release.  All of that will be gone and useless after my subscription expires in March.  The only games that have cost me that much were LotRO (most of that from the sub days) and GW1 ($250 - $300 over the last 7 years).  I still have access to all the content in my sub free games and can still login and enjoy them.  I can't say the same for my sub based games.

Like I've said, I don't really care if you like subs or not.  I don't and can play more for less money.  It works great for me.

 

 

 

And your example of games is pointless. First three of the games you mention are B2P, thus not using F2P model. LoTRO just had a release of an expensive expansion--59.99$ so your f2p game isnt "free". RaiderZ is still in beta testing, thus you are not 100% sure on how the market/cash shop will be further down the line. And TL2 is a single player game with multiplayer options, co-op play, not a mmorpg. And its B2P also.

People need to stop refering games that are not F2P as an example of how well F2P games are.

Originally posted by Slappy1

Originally posted by Onomas

There is far worse that TOR, i point at Atlantica Online as one example.

I've only played maybe 30 min of that game.

The question I have is,do you need to spend that much to progress in the game?Or is that for convenience/to be competetive?I'm betting it's convenience and you can actually play pretty cheap.

You need to upgrade your armor and weapons using cash shop items. You also need to upgrade your mercs/players you control via cash shop items. And much much more, it is a pay to win game, and costly. Play it longer and try it out, its one game i will never touch again. basicaly if you want a chance to be on par with other gamers you need to spend money. Again one reason why i hate F2P models.

Originally posted by Sogi-Ya

I'm seeing F2P game after F2P game price gouge the fuck out of "premium services" and "boosters," sometimes for double or tripple the cost of what it would take for a monthly subscription to a P2P game .... when did this becoime ok to do?

 

I guess this is the victory lap F2P beating P2P or something: now that F2P has is clearly winning the battle VS P2P it dosen't have to keep competitive on comparable subscriptions pricing.

 

[mod edit]: the whole reason F2P took off was because it was more accessible and affordable than P2P, shit gets too bad people will just shift back in the other direction ... espacally if going B2P works out for TSW and western P2P holdouts realise that there are other options to stay competitive.

It became "ok" when enough people do it... ^^ Thats market dynamics.  You've never played any of the major Asian F2P games on the Asian servers, have you?  $30 to $50 would be laughed at, as not nearly enough to be competitive.  These types of games are insanely profitable over there. Thats one of the reasons that many of the western groups want to get into that business model.

I doubt its going to be nearly as profitable as it is in Asia, but games like DDO and other such seem to be doing well.  I have no problem with spending money on games I enjoy. The Dev's and their investors need to make money in some fashion.  If a game is profitable, its more likely to be around for awhile, and perhaps get additional content.