Originally posted by InFlamestwo
So i heard it's pay to win. WHY IN THE HOLY FUCK are some developers using pay to win in their games. If i could sit face to face i would tell them all the reasons why it's bad and why it ruin games and communities.

Read please this on going debate  http://www.ageofwushu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2345&sid=a387d8f83f4644caf8348714b75a4482

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by Sovrath

Asking for money just so I can then "make up my mind" was a bit of a downer for me. Eveywhere I moved I was hit by that roadblock. Could have just been my dumb luck but that was my experience.

Have to say this perticular part grabbed me and amused me because irony is that most P2P games do just that.  Sure this game is expected to be F2P but meh, since when do F2P games not hit you with "You must pay for this" each time you try to use some of its "prenium" features?  Sadly thats just how it is really with alot of games but hey, they gotta make money to pay the bills and labour somehow right?  Where I come from there's a saying we use quite commonly "nothing is free in this world" I think this lesson needs to be learned by some people.

Oh, I have to clarify, I don't mind paying for my entertainment. As a matter of fact I always pay something in a f2p game to support the game.

My issue with my starter experience, in a beta test, was that I ran into several instances of "this is for premium players".

Now, i didn't know that this beta was really a sort of soft launch, so that makes sense. But I don't buy games that I am not already convinced that I can get something out of. Usually that comes from me being really jazzed by the subject matter or my experience with a beta or stress test.

Since I was curious about the game and since I'm one of the 12 people left in the world who actually tests and submits bugs, suggestions, etc, I logged in and was met with the "this is for premium players" schtick. Since I wasn't captivated by anything yet I decided not to continue.

If More and more players start raving about how awesome the game is, especially if they are players who have an opinion I generally find congruent with my own, then I will bite the bullet and pay the $20.00. Until then I'll just keep an eye on the game.

Originally posted by Sovrath

hmmm, well, I downloaded it, started it up and before I could get into any rhthm of game play I was hit with the "this is for x type of member only". Essentially, getting hit with the cash shop.

for a beta test (alpha? whatever it is) I was put off by having the hand out right from the gate. Now, if they gave players some "fake money" so that one could test the store and then become a premium member (or whatever) and then allow players to get into the game proper, then I might not have been so annoyed.

took it off my hard drive.

 

Thanks for the post.

I was considering giving the Wushu a go, but this is enough for me to pass. I respect your opinion and you have confirmed that my concerns with the payment plan were valid.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by RudedawgCDN

Originally posted by Sovrath

hmmm, well, I downloaded it, started it up and before I could get into any rhthm of game play I was hit with the "this is for x type of member only". Essentially, getting hit with the cash shop.

for a beta test (alpha? whatever it is) I was put off by having the hand out right from the gate. Now, if they gave players some "fake money" so that one could test the store and then become a premium member (or whatever) and then allow players to get into the game proper, then I might not have been so annoyed.

took it off my hard drive.

 

You have missed out on a FANTASTIC game.

$20.00 to play. No monthly sub.

Open Sand Box Game with TONS of interesting things to do - spying, kidnapping, stealing skills from other schools.... I could go on and on.

I have played everything - EQ1 and 2 / Wow / Vanguard / DAOC / AC / AO / Warhammer / GW 1 and 2, etc...

GW2 innovative?

Sorry not even close - AOW is the most innovative mmo I have ever played.

It's not perfect, but it has a lot to like about it.

well, let's put it this way,

How can I play a game, let alone test it (which was why I was there) when right out of the gate the hand is going into my wallet? I mean right then and there. No chance to really get hooked or to really experience anything before they say "if you want to start off you need to give us money. Real money."

Now, you might say "well, if you just ignored that and did something else, it wouldn't have been an issue".

Excpet that the first things I tried to do had the "ony for premium members" or whatever it was. My thought, testing aside, is that you can at least get me interested in the game, invested in the game by my own actions and THEN tell me what I need to pay for. I have no problems with companies making money. I do have a problem with a beta test that hits me up for money before I even know what the game is about, how it plays, and whether or not it gets me hooked.

Asking for money just so I can then "make up my mind" was a bit of a downer for me. Eveywhere I moved I was hit by that roadblock. Could have just been my dumb luck but that was my experience.

 

Pretty much this, I already see the fanboys putting on the riot gear so I will be quick. The "out the door" experience that AoW gives with it's limited "trial" should be re-evaluated so people who are interested enough to install the game are actually interested in playing the game or at least trying to.

Sovrath's experience matches mine and another person I played AoW with. Seems like a game that is out to nickle and dime you. We've been seeing this a lot lately.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Urvan
mmk, just had a little of a re-read through the article and I s'pose I see a reason behind the "never" part, it suggests the cash shope would put people off which I s'pose it would and judging by the recent responses I think it obviously has put at least someone off.  Anyway, just so ya know I wasn't trolling on the "never" thing, it just made me laugh cus when I first read it to myself it made me think "is this actually suggesting people wouldn't or shouldn't play or not?" I didn't quite understand, so yeah, anyway.. The game isn't all that bad but tbh for me it got kinda boring after a while but I bought premium before trying it and will probably still play it after release, I donno.

To be honest i was wondering why you didn't read between the lines.

Age Of Wushu is an very good game and should be right up their with what ArcheAge has to offer minus the sea battles. What he was saying is don't let the cash shop put you off.

We really don't know whether ArcheAge in the west won't have a cash shop, i think it will. It's  time to except that most mmos now will have a cash shop but it's how the system is set up that matters.

Ya know I really would not compare this with ArcheAge, they're in a league of their own really.  For starters does Wushu offer you to create your own home? no it doesn't, but does ArcheAge? yes it does.  At a guess I think ArcheAge is more open world PVP where as Wushu is more based on opt in choice, so again its not the same.  The fact that you can mix things up to a more custom class is also quite different as to Wushu, although I read you can obtain other class skills, I never really found it that possible to mix things up to make a more unique class.  Also, of course, ArcheAge has more races to offer where as Wushu is focused on East Asian (Chinese from what I can tell) for obvious reason and of course their classes are biased to martial arts and samurai, again for obvious reason.

In my honest opinion I'd say ArcheAge has a bit more to offer but Wushu obviously has some perks but either way I wouldn't bring ArcheAge into this nore would I dare to say Wushu was up there withi it, its not.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by InFlamestwo
So i heard it's pay to win. WHY IN THE HOLY FUCK are some developers using pay to win in their games. If i could sit face to face i would tell them all the reasons why it's bad and why it ruin games and communities.

Read please this on going debate  http://www.ageofwushu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2345&sid=a387d8f83f4644caf8348714b75a4482

I see so people called it pay to win because you could buy XP potions. That's not pay to win. Some people shouldn't be writing stuff they don't know about.

This (cut out from massively)

Let me put it to you this way. I played ArcheAge's Korean beta, which featured no English whatsoever, and I picked up its systems much more quickly than I'm picking up AoW's. Some of the mechanics are simply indecipherable sans a bit of internet research, and even then it's hit or miss because of loose translations and the fact that western players are still figuring out the title's considerable complexity.

and the fact that even my english spelling isn't the best would be an absolute no go for me.

(hope this text snippet above doesn't brake the RoC, but a simple link to the whole article wouldn't focus what I mean)

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Sovrath

hmmm, well, I downloaded it, started it up and before I could get into any rhthm of game play I was hit with the "this is for x type of member only". Essentially, getting hit with the cash shop.

for a beta test (alpha? whatever it is) I was put off by having the hand out right from the gate. Now, if they gave players some "fake money" so that one could test the store and then become a premium member (or whatever) and then allow players to get into the game proper, then I might not have been so annoyed.

took it off my hard drive.

 

Thanks for the post.

I was considering giving the Wushu a go, but this is enough for me to pass. I respect your opinion and you have confirmed that my concerns with the payment plan were valid.

well, the caveat could be that I was just unlucky and hit the few things where they let us know that a premium member has more access.

Still, my bad luck or maybe how I play (which is usually to wander around and see what I can do/see) I met the "premium member" advertisments several times. Not knowing anything about the game other than the little I read I came to the conclusion that there could be more of this before I even got started to enjoy the game, let alone actually test.

Yet it seems others have a similiar experience. For me, I submitted my opinions and will leave it at that until the time comes when I'm willing to pay to get a better idea of the game.

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Urvan
mmk, just had a little of a re-read through the article and I s'pose I see a reason behind the "never" part, it suggests the cash shope would put people off which I s'pose it would and judging by the recent responses I think it obviously has put at least someone off.  Anyway, just so ya know I wasn't trolling on the "never" thing, it just made me laugh cus when I first read it to myself it made me think "is this actually suggesting people wouldn't or shouldn't play or not?" I didn't quite understand, so yeah, anyway.. The game isn't all that bad but tbh for me it got kinda boring after a while but I bought premium before trying it and will probably still play it after release, I donno.

To be honest i was wondering why you didn't read between the lines.

Age Of Wushu is an very good game and should be right up their with what ArcheAge has to offer minus the sea battles. What he was saying is don't let the cash shop put you off.

We really don't know whether ArcheAge in the west won't have a cash shop, i think it will. It's  time to except that most mmos now will have a cash shop but it's how the system is set up that matters.

Ya know I really would not compare this with ArcheAge, they're in a league of their own really.  For starters does Wushu offer you to create your own home? no it doesn't, but does ArcheAge? yes it does.  At a guess I think ArcheAge is more open world PVP where as Wushu is more based on opt in choice, so again its not the same.  The fact that you can mix things up to a more custom class is also quite different as to Wushu, although I read you can obtain other class skills, I never really found it that possible to mix things up to make a more unique class.  Also, of course, ArcheAge has more races to offer where as Wushu is focused on East Asian (Chinese from what I can tell) for obvious reason and of course their classes are biased to martial arts and samurai, again for obvious reason.

In my honest opinion I'd say ArcheAge has a bit more to offer but Wushu obviously has some perks but either way I wouldn't bring ArcheAge into this nore would I dare to say Wushu was up there withi it, its not.

I have never played a game that has more to offer when it comes to FFA pvp. I don't think there is a game that has everything from guildwars, to arenas, to school battles, bounties, warrants, kidnapping, spying, guild supply cart robbing. The list goes on. Not knocking  any game, but each one of those things I named are multi layerd systems. 

AoW is FFA pvp. There is NO opt in system. You can put yourself on "safty" so to speak so that you don't hurt the others around you, but that doesnt stop them from hurting you lol. 

No player housing, but huge guild keeps and open world farms. You can be anything from a musician to a begger.

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Urvan
mmk, just had a little of a re-read through the article and I s'pose I see a reason behind the "never" part, it suggests the cash shope would put people off which I s'pose it would and judging by the recent responses I think it obviously has put at least someone off.  Anyway, just so ya know I wasn't trolling on the "never" thing, it just made me laugh cus when I first read it to myself it made me think "is this actually suggesting people wouldn't or shouldn't play or not?" I didn't quite understand, so yeah, anyway.. The game isn't all that bad but tbh for me it got kinda boring after a while but I bought premium before trying it and will probably still play it after release, I donno.

To be honest i was wondering why you didn't read between the lines.

Age Of Wushu is an very good game and should be right up their with what ArcheAge has to offer minus the sea battles. What he was saying is don't let the cash shop put you off.

We really don't know whether ArcheAge in the west won't have a cash shop, i think it will. It's  time to except that most mmos now will have a cash shop but it's how the system is set up that matters.

Ya know I really would not compare this with ArcheAge, they're in a league of their own really.  For starters does Wushu offer you to create your own home? no it doesn't, but does ArcheAge? yes it does.  At a guess I think ArcheAge is more open world PVP where as Wushu is more based on opt in choice, so again its not the same.  The fact that you can mix things up to a more custom class is also quite different as to Wushu, although I read you can obtain other class skills, I never really found it that possible to mix things up to make a more unique class.  Also, of course, ArcheAge has more races to offer where as Wushu is focused on East Asian (Chinese from what I can tell) for obvious reason and of course their classes are biased to martial arts and samurai, again for obvious reason.

In my honest opinion I'd say ArcheAge has a bit more to offer but Wushu obviously has some perks but either way I wouldn't bring ArcheAge into this nore would I dare to say Wushu was up there withi it, its not.

You can build forts that are faction housing.

Guilds of 300 people can claim one of 32 areas in the game and build it up. This isn't a simple "donate 100 bricks for a wall" type construction, either. Players can actually choose where to place things. Now, this does tie in for guild wars (about 250 vs. 250), but players can use the guild housing for recreational purposes as well, such as dance-offs. Players can actually coordinate dances as the game gives them directional keys to hit to ensure that players are moving together.

How is ArcheAge more open world PvP, isnt the fort PVP done in an instanced or enclosed bubble. I can PVP anywhere in Age Of Wushu?

The whole game is FFA PvP in the open world, you can't deflag PVP.

I can learn every skill in the game

AoW is a skill-based game. The more you do certain activities, the better you get at them. There's no skill decay, though, and since you can cross-train with other schools (like classes in other MMOs, but they're also factions you can align yourself with), it's actually possible to master all the skills in the game. Of course, this is supposed to take a very long time.

Originally posted by Sovrath

...snip 

sometimes we miss the turn around, when we rush to defense ;) 

I saw you say "That explains it." You got hammered a few times after that though lol. Regardless I hope you get back in. You wont be sorry.  

The game doesn't keep you broke like other games and force you to use the cash shop. It's a free economy w/o stupid system money grabs. Free players will be just fine, since gear is alomst like a non factor, but they will progress slower do to not being able to offline. Free player can't have offline shops either. 

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Urvan

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Urvan
mmk, just had a little of a re-read through the article and I s'pose I see a reason behind the "never" part, it suggests the cash shope would put people off which I s'pose it would and judging by the recent responses I think it obviously has put at least someone off.  Anyway, just so ya know I wasn't trolling on the "never" thing, it just made me laugh cus when I first read it to myself it made me think "is this actually suggesting people wouldn't or shouldn't play or not?" I didn't quite understand, so yeah, anyway.. The game isn't all that bad but tbh for me it got kinda boring after a while but I bought premium before trying it and will probably still play it after release, I donno.

To be honest i was wondering why you didn't read between the lines.

Age Of Wushu is an very good game and should be right up their with what ArcheAge has to offer minus the sea battles. What he was saying is don't let the cash shop put you off.

We really don't know whether ArcheAge in the west won't have a cash shop, i think it will. It's  time to except that most mmos now will have a cash shop but it's how the system is set up that matters.

Ya know I really would not compare this with ArcheAge, they're in a league of their own really.  For starters does Wushu offer you to create your own home? no it doesn't, but does ArcheAge? yes it does.  At a guess I think ArcheAge is more open world PVP where as Wushu is more based on opt in choice, so again its not the same.  The fact that you can mix things up to a more custom class is also quite different as to Wushu, although I read you can obtain other class skills, I never really found it that possible to mix things up to make a more unique class.  Also, of course, ArcheAge has more races to offer where as Wushu is focused on East Asian (Chinese from what I can tell) for obvious reason and of course their classes are biased to martial arts and samurai, again for obvious reason.

In my honest opinion I'd say ArcheAge has a bit more to offer but Wushu obviously has some perks but either way I wouldn't bring ArcheAge into this nore would I dare to say Wushu was up there withi it, its not.

I have never played a game that has more to offer when it comes to FFA pvp. I don't think there is a game that has everything from guildwars, to arenas, to school battles, bounties, warrants, kidnapping, spying, guild supply cart robbing. The list goes on. Not knocking  any game, but each one of those things I named are multi layerd systems. 

 

AoW is FFA pvp. There is NO opt in system. You can put yourself on "safty" so to speak so that you don't hurt the others around you, but that doesnt stop them from hurting you lol. 

 

No player housing, but huge guild keeps and open world farms. You can be anything from a musician to a begger.

I don't think he actually played the game, if he did then he didn't get very far.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Sovrath

...snip 

sometimes we miss the turn around, when we rush to defense ;) 

 

I saw you say "That explains it." You got hammered a few times after that though lol. Regardless I hope you get back in. You wont be sorry.  

 

The game doesn't keep you broke like other games and force you to use the cash shop. It's a free economy w/o stupid system money grabs. Free players will be just fine, since gear is alomst like a non factor, but they will progress slower do to not being able to offline. Free player can't have offline shops either. 

Well, again, I was there to test and was greeted by the advertisments. I'm not trying to win anything, just explain my first experience. As I mentioned, there could be 20,000 thigns I missed in that starter area that didn't say "if you want to take part you have to be premium". But when my first few moments, my first attempts at finding out what the game was about, were reminders that I needed to be a payign customer for x an y, I couldn't take another step as I didn't know if I wanted to be a paying customer.

Nor was I that taken with the game to continue searching. How could I be taken with the game when I hadn't even started yet but already I knew that the few things I tried or read indicated that a premium member would be able to take part in it.

Even in LOTRO, you can start and play until you get to a new area and find out that you have to pay for quest packs.

My discovery that this was a soft launch doesn't invalidate my experience for me.

While I respect that some posters here seem to be very stern when it comes to sticking by their principles, I think it's a shame that people who claim to be interested in sandbox games and innovative MMO design dismiss this game for reasons that, in my opinion, are pretty shallow. It seems to me the complaints fall into one of the following categories (and now I'm excluding the obvious troll comments and uninformed misconceptions):

"It's pay to win"

No it's not. In the western version, you can't buy anything that you can't acquire in game. While some people are bothered by the fact that others buy faster skill progression and convenience items, the reality of the MMO market nowadays is that most titles are going the free to play route, meaning that cash shops are inevitable. You may not like it (I personally don't) but dismissing a potentially fun game because the business model dosen't suit your ideals means you'll miss out on some fun games.

Snail's ftp matrix is far from perfect. But it's not horrible either. Paying makes it easier to play the game, it doesn't give you an "I win" button. Player skill and experience still matters, and given enough time you'll catch up with the subbers and cash shop spenders even if you freeload. It'll just take you longer to get there - which is fine by me since after all you're not supporting the company with your money, while other are.

"It has a bad UI and poor translations"

True (well at least the translations are beyond bad at some times), but this doesn't make it unplayable. Most vital info can be readily found by trial and error, or - the horror - by interacting with other players and asking questions. The UI may not be the best around but given the game's complexity it's fully functional. Like EVE's UI, it just takes a little getting used to.

"It's too Asian"

No shit! It's a Chinese game set in ancient China, so...

Still, if you're interested in new and innovative game design you should leave your prejudices and aestethical preferences behind for one second and try to see what's behind the surface here. AoW is not your typical Asian Grinder.

Also, the game world is well made and really feels alive, something you can't say about all western MMOs. I'm not a big fan of the Wuxia stuff myself but I found myself immersed in the world anyway. It's a bit kitchy, but overall the good level design, the smooth animations and overall polish makes for a really nice atmosphere and sense of being in an actual world.

"It's not a real sandbox"

Well, perhaps it's not, but it's a very interesting game design-wise anyway. Does it have to conform to your personal idea of the ideal sandbox to be considered a good game or what? And where is this ideal sandbox that every other game has to be measured against?

Actually I think the whole sandbox vs themepark thing has gone too far and is preventing people from concentrating on what matters when it comes to games: fun.

AoW has both sandbox and themepark features. You can quest tour ass off if you like, run instances, grind mobs all day etc. You can also kidnap other players, live in a guild castle, spy on other schools and steal from them, patrol your own school and kill enemy spies, participate in school vs school battles, explore the world without any artificial restraints, attack anyone anywhere and then be caught by a player police, thrown in jail and be beheaded, you can beg on the streets, fish, play music, paint, play Go, group train with strangers and friends, set up a street stall and sell your goods, etc, etc. When you go offline your character lives on in the world - as a waiter, a beggar, a street acrobat, or perhaps as a city guard.

Name another game with all those features, "sandbox" or not?

There is a main storyline that you sort of have to do, which sucks imo, but beyond that you're free to do whatever you want, when you want do it. So in that way the game is very sandboxy and open-ended.

But I guess that's not enough to satisfy some people, even people who like to pretend they're into new and innovative stuff.

Originally posted by Urvan
fyi I did play the game and not once was I attacked by any opposition unless I was in my own school grounds looking for them or spying in theirs!  I even ran into someone of another school who requested to duel me and clearly could NOT fight me any other way! which of course I denied him of and walked way.  That to me is not open world PVP, you choose whether you want to fight or not, that to me is opting in, its a choice.  As for the guild buildings vs player housing, who the hell wants to be forced to rely on a guild to have buildings? some of us like a bit of personal touch and not have to run to a guild every time we want our own building to be proud of.  Not to mention a guild hall vs your own home isn't very personal!  And again with the class mixing its not the same, Wushu is mostly based on combat classes, ArcheAge has mixed classes of magic and combat, big friggin' difference in this respect.  I stand my ground here, ArcheAge has alot more to offer, you can't deny that, so get off your fanboy horse and don't state people haven't played this game just because their views are different to your own.

I can asure you, you have no choice in being attacked or not. You have the choice not to attack, and that's what the guy who wanted to duel you did. If he wanted to attack you or you him you could have.

Only the first couple hours of the game are you protected, while you go through the "tutorial" so to speak.

AoW is a social game from the ground up, I've made about 20 friends, and probably 6 enemies this past week. I know thes e people, because we have interacted on more than one occasion, it's the nature of the game. 

I choose to stop there though. I'm not looking to join a guild, nor do I have to. I'd rather rob the guilds ;) The guild keeps are part of the social political system, as real as RL tribes and clans. 

again this is not a game v game thing. This is just what I know about AoW, from playing it. I'm sure I'll give AA a go when it comes out just like DF:UW. AoW is here now, and I haven't played anything like it.

Originally posted by Scorchien
 Lots of good mechanics being implemented in this game, But i wont touch it because i dont like the setting at all...

That's fair. The setting is extremely immersive though. Maybe if you can put the dilike of setting off long enough, you'll get to enjoy the systems, which might make you respect the setting 

Originally posted by Biskop

While I respect that some posters here seem to be very stern when it comes to sticking by their principles, I think it's a shame that people who claim to be interested in sandbox games and innovative MMO design dismiss this game for reasons that, in my opinion, are pretty shallow. It seems to me the complaints fall into one of the following categories (and now I'm excluding the obvious troll comments and uninformed misconceptions):

"It's pay to win"

No it's not. In the western version, you can't buy anything that you can't acquire in game. While some people are bothered by the fact that others buy faster skill progression and convenience items, the reality of the MMO market nowadays is that most titles are going the free to play route, meaning that cash shops are inevitable. You may not like it (I personally don't) but dismissing a potentially fun game because the business model dosen't suit your ideals means you'll miss out on some fun games.

Snail's ftp matrix is far from perfect. But it's not horrible either. Paying makes it easier to play the game, it doesn't give you an "I win" button. Player skill and experience still matters, and given enough time you'll catch up with the subbers and cash shop spenders even if you freeload. It'll just take you longer to get there - which is fine by me since after all you're not supporting the company with your money, while other are.

"It has a bad UI and poor translations"

True (well at least the translations are beyond bad at some times), but this doesn't make it unplayable. Most vital info can be readily found by trial and error, or - the horror - by interacting with other players and asking questions. The UI may not be the best around but given the game's complexity it's fully functional. Like EVE's UI, it just takes a little getting used to.

"It's too Asian"

No shit! It's a Chinese game set in ancient China, so...

Still, if you're interested in new and innovative game design you should leave your prejudices and aestethical preferences behind for one second and try to see what's behind the surface here. AoW is not your typical Asian Grinder.

Also, the game world is well made and really feels alive, something you can't say about all western MMOs. I'm not a big fan of the Wuxia stuff myself but I found myself immersed in the world anyway. It's a bit kitchy, but overall the good level design, the smooth animations and overall polish makes for a really nice atmosphere and sense of being in an actual world.

"It's not a real sandbox"

Well, perhaps it's not, but it's a very interesting game design-wise anyway. Does it have to conform to your personal idea of the ideal sandbox to be considered a good game or what? And where is this ideal sandbox that every other game has to be measured against?

Actually I think the whole sandbox vs themepark thing has gone too far and is preventing people from concentrating on what matters when it comes to games: fun.

AoW has both sandbox and themepark features. You can quest tour ass off if you like, run instances, grind mobs all day etc. You can also kidnap other players, live in a guild castle, spy on other schools and steal from them, patrol your own school and kill enemy spies, participate in school vs school battles, explore the world without any artificial restraints, attack anyone anywhere and then be caught by a player police, thrown in jail and be beheaded, you can beg on the streets, fish, play music, paint, play Go, group train with strangers and friends, set up a street stall and sell your goods, etc, etc. When you go offline your character lives on in the world - as a waiter, a beggar, a street acrobat, or perhaps as a city guard.

Name another game with all those features, "sandbox" or not?

There is a main storyline that you sort of have to do, which sucks imo, but beyond that you're free to do whatever you want, when you want do it. So in that way the game is very sandboxy and open-ended.

But I guess that's not enough to satisfy some people, even people who like to pretend they're into new and innovative stuff.

Actually, they are still looking for an American and EU publisher for this game. It really depends on that - if they go with Gpotato you can bet it will be P2W.