Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Well, I think in the spirit of the Final Fantasy series combat isn't supposed to be run around action based. As it is it looks a lot quicker FFXI but I dont think most Final Fantasy fans want an action based combat.

The problem then comes down to how they intend to grow. I am a middling ff fan, I enjoyed a few of the games when I still played turn based console games, but the combat is very much a deal breaker. If I am not engaged by the combat, I simply cannot play it. 2.5 sec cast spells are insane, especially in the current playerbase. There is a reason why games like WoW instituted haste, and Rift has dropped the gcd for its classes to 1 sec. People prefer "faster" combat.

 There are quite a bit of people that prefer the slower paced combat as well.  Also, combat isnt everything in a game for alot of people.  Look at Tera, i heard they have the best action combat out there and look how they're doing.  I enjoy the slow paced combat.  As long as there is content for me to do and it looks like they will have based on the just released beta road map, i'm a happy camper.

Tera combat is good (if a bit repetitive) - Tera content is (and always has been) the problem, - together with game support. Hopefully ARR will have enough content to keep their players interested long term.

It can be a fine line for devs - they issue a work in progress and people judge the launch version by that. Or they hold back for near finished content and people say nothing is coming out of the company.

Agree with the need to have variety with combat. Fast action for some, slower for others - let the gamer have the opportunity to make the choice rather than be shovelled down one road.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Well, I think in the spirit of the Final Fantasy series combat isn't supposed to be run around action based. As it is it looks a lot quicker FFXI but I dont think most Final Fantasy fans want an action based combat.

The problem then comes down to how they intend to grow. I am a middling ff fan, I enjoyed a few of the games when I still played turn based console games, but the combat is very much a deal breaker. If I am not engaged by the combat, I simply cannot play it. 2.5 sec cast spells are insane, especially in the current playerbase. There is a reason why games like WoW instituted haste, and Rift has dropped the gcd for its classes to 1 sec. People prefer "faster" combat.

 There are quite a bit of people that prefer the slower paced combat as well.  Also, combat isnt everything in a game for alot of people.  Look at Tera, i heard they have the best action combat out there and look how they're doing.  I enjoy the slow paced combat.  As long as there is content for me to do and it looks like they will have based on the just released beta road map, i'm a happy camper.

Tera is a horrible example for your position, as virtually everyone loved the combat. It was everything else they hated, to poor quests to lack of raids to poor pvp.

I thought that was my point though?  Combat isnt everything or else TERA would still have a bunch of people playing.

A better example would have been Tsw as its combat is actually similar to that of the beloved Gw2, but it still fails to engage the user. Don't take me wrong, Gw2 combat does not engage me either, but that is mostly because it comes down to "spam 1 for success" more than anything.  The combat system will in and of itself not hold many, but it WILL sink the ship if its poor.

But that's the thing, it's not poor combat, it's just not to your taste.  There are people that like this type of combat.  As i stated in my previous post, once they add all the machanics to the battles, i feel that it will be more engaging.

Ryahl imparticular has tried explaining this away in other places with the analogy of chess versus speed chess, and for me atleast that gets to the very heart of the matter. Watching chess is boring if there is for example minutes between moves, but its much more exciting if there is only 20 seconds. Speed does matter. While I would not advocate true "action" combat, at the pace it is now I will fall asleep from boredom inbetween casts, which is absurd. I am not in alpha, so I do not know if ttk and the like is in a decent spot, but based on cast times alone, nothing should be over 2 seconds if you need to use it regularly, 1-1.5 would be ideal for me atleast.

Different strokes for different folks, i like the slower tactical combat that i feel that ffxiv arr will have.

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Well, I think in the spirit of the Final Fantasy series combat isn't supposed to be run around action based. As it is it looks a lot quicker FFXI but I dont think most Final Fantasy fans want an action based combat.

The problem then comes down to how they intend to grow. I am a middling ff fan, I enjoyed a few of the games when I still played turn based console games, but the combat is very much a deal breaker. If I am not engaged by the combat, I simply cannot play it. 2.5 sec cast spells are insane, especially in the current playerbase. There is a reason why games like WoW instituted haste, and Rift has dropped the gcd for its classes to 1 sec. People prefer "faster" combat.

 There are quite a bit of people that prefer the slower paced combat as well.  Also, combat isnt everything in a game for alot of people.  Look at Tera, i heard they have the best action combat out there and look how they're doing.  I enjoy the slow paced combat.  As long as there is content for me to do and it looks like they will have based on the just released beta road map, i'm a happy camper.

Tera is a horrible example for your position, as virtually everyone loved the combat. It was everything else they hated, to poor quests to lack of raids to poor pvp.

I thought that was my point though?  Combat isnt everything or else TERA would still have a bunch of people playing.

A better example would have been Tsw as its combat is actually similar to that of the beloved Gw2, but it still fails to engage the user. Don't take me wrong, Gw2 combat does not engage me either, but that is mostly because it comes down to "spam 1 for success" more than anything.  The combat system will in and of itself not hold many, but it WILL sink the ship if its poor.

But that's the thing, it's not poor combat, it's just not to your taste.  There are people that like this type of combat.  As i stated in my previous post, once they add all the machanics to the battles, i feel that it will be more engaging.

Ryahl imparticular has tried explaining this away in other places with the analogy of chess versus speed chess, and for me atleast that gets to the very heart of the matter. Watching chess is boring if there is for example minutes between moves, but its much more exciting if there is only 20 seconds. Speed does matter. While I would not advocate true "action" combat, at the pace it is now I will fall asleep from boredom inbetween casts, which is absurd. I am not in alpha, so I do not know if ttk and the like is in a decent spot, but based on cast times alone, nothing should be over 2 seconds if you need to use it regularly, 1-1.5 would be ideal for me atleast.

Different strokes for different folks, i like the slower tactical combat that i feel that ffxiv arr will have.

People tried to use the "tactical" excuse with Gw2. I mean take a step back, you can almost feel the fanboy flow through the post. I am here offering feedback, not bashing it. They want to cater to a minority and they can make that work, then I wish them luck. Doing this sort of advertising though, showing stuff off with little to no mechanics, is making them look bad.

Also, as to your earlier point, I have found several game video's engaging. Wildstar for example looks pretty good, they offer something new. I was intrigued enough by Firefall to pony up the $20 for the beta, and a week later upgraded to the commander package. Hawken is another one that I had no real interest in, I usually do not care for mech games, nor "twitch" ones, but that one looked pretty great, it now has a spot on my hdd. These sorts of advertisements is generally how I find games.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by vandal5627

Originally posted by jimdandy26

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Well, I think in the spirit of the Final Fantasy series combat isn't supposed to be run around action based. As it is it looks a lot quicker FFXI but I dont think most Final Fantasy fans want an action based combat.

The problem then comes down to how they intend to grow. I am a middling ff fan, I enjoyed a few of the games when I still played turn based console games, but the combat is very much a deal breaker. If I am not engaged by the combat, I simply cannot play it. 2.5 sec cast spells are insane, especially in the current playerbase. There is a reason why games like WoW instituted haste, and Rift has dropped the gcd for its classes to 1 sec. People prefer "faster" combat.

 There are quite a bit of people that prefer the slower paced combat as well.  Also, combat isnt everything in a game for alot of people.  Look at Tera, i heard they have the best action combat out there and look how they're doing.  I enjoy the slow paced combat.  As long as there is content for me to do and it looks like they will have based on the just released beta road map, i'm a happy camper.

Tera is a horrible example for your position, as virtually everyone loved the combat. It was everything else they hated, to poor quests to lack of raids to poor pvp.

I thought that was my point though?  Combat isnt everything or else TERA would still have a bunch of people playing.

A better example would have been Tsw as its combat is actually similar to that of the beloved Gw2, but it still fails to engage the user. Don't take me wrong, Gw2 combat does not engage me either, but that is mostly because it comes down to "spam 1 for success" more than anything.  The combat system will in and of itself not hold many, but it WILL sink the ship if its poor.

But that's the thing, it's not poor combat, it's just not to your taste.  There are people that like this type of combat.  As i stated in my previous post, once they add all the machanics to the battles, i feel that it will be more engaging.

Ryahl imparticular has tried explaining this away in other places with the analogy of chess versus speed chess, and for me atleast that gets to the very heart of the matter. Watching chess is boring if there is for example minutes between moves, but its much more exciting if there is only 20 seconds. Speed does matter. While I would not advocate true "action" combat, at the pace it is now I will fall asleep from boredom inbetween casts, which is absurd. I am not in alpha, so I do not know if ttk and the like is in a decent spot, but based on cast times alone, nothing should be over 2 seconds if you need to use it regularly, 1-1.5 would be ideal for me atleast.

Different strokes for different folks, i like the slower tactical combat that i feel that ffxiv arr will have.

People tried to use the "tactical" excuse with Gw2. I mean take a step back, you can almost feel the fanboy flow through the post. I am here offering feedback, not bashing it. They want to cater to a minority and they can make that work, then I wish them luck. Doing this sort of advertising though, showing stuff off with little to no mechanics, is making them look bad.

I don't deny that i'm a fan but why do i need to take a step back.  You have your opinions and i have mine.  Do you see me descrediting your opinion in any way?  I'm just simply not aggreeing with you and providing my own feedback.  I never accused you of bashing the game.  And what excuses are you speaking of for GW2?  From what i can tell, there are alot of people that likes their combat and feel that it's tactical.  I see that you don't and that's understandable.  I will say it again, different strokes for different folks.

 

Also, as to your earlier point, I have found several game video's engaging. Wildstar for example looks pretty good, they offer something new. I was intrigued enough by Firefall to pony up the $20 for the beta, and a week later upgraded to the commander package. Hawken is another one that I had no real interest in, I usually do not care for mech games, nor "twitch" ones, but that one looked pretty great, it now has a spot on my hdd. These sorts of advertisements is generally how I find games.

That is great, their marketing worked and it hooked you.  I'm glad you can feel engaged watching a video of a game.  As for me, i can't.  I have to get hands on to know how engaged i will be.  Again, i'll say it again, different strokes for different folks. :)

After playing the alpha, I have to warn you, this game suuucks.  Also, don't post screenshots of the original, as it's a form of deception.  A Realm Reborn is greatly downgraded from that, graphically.

All Yoshi knows how to do is copy WoW.

Originally posted by jimdandy26

People tried to use the "tactical" excuse with Gw2. I mean take a step back, you can almost feel the fanboy flow through the post. I am here offering feedback, not bashing it. They want to cater to a minority and they can make that work, then I wish them luck. Doing this sort of advertising though, showing stuff off with little to no mechanics, is making them look bad.

Also, as to your earlier point, I have found several game video's engaging. Wildstar for example looks pretty good, they offer something new. I was intrigued enough by Firefall to pony up the $20 for the beta, and a week later upgraded to the commander package. Hawken is another one that I had no real interest in, I usually do not care for mech games, nor "twitch" ones, but that one looked pretty great, it now has a spot on my hdd. These sorts of advertisements is generally how I find games.

While these games have caught your eye I highly doubt the videos you watched were from a closed alpha build. The ones that we hav seen so far were from a closed alpha build devoted entirely to stress testing the brand new server structure they had built specifically for ARR. There is very little content or features added except just a hint to give testers stuff to occupy themselves with so people stay on long enough for server load gets high enough for SE to run tests and such.

Combat in XIV never seemed "slow" to me with the exception of launch due the the constant need to reposition yourself for combos or to dodge a lethal move launched by a mob. I mean sure nobody is doing triple backflips while launching a flashy 75 hit combo while crafting a sandwich but it is still fast paced especially since combos only sonsume the TP of the first skill in the chain so you only need 1000-2000 TP max to start another combo and the auto attacks between the moves generated about 300-500.

I am in now way "fanboying" over this game as I have my own personal concerns but I will hold my judgement until beta when things are under the scrutiny of everyone and SE is listening with the intent to act.

Bear in mind, the only public footage to date is also solo content under level 20.

I have played Tera, GW2, TSW and DCUO (all action combat systems) through the equivalent level.  I don't recall the solo encounters to be any more or less engaging.  Even basilisks in TERA (the first BAM you find) are simply stab-stab-stab-block as a lancer. 

The only group oriented conten ARR alpha was the dungeon which was illustrated in the ARR video released today.  They cut away from the final boss and, out of respect for the NDA, I don't talk about content that is not already publicly released.

Net result, there isn't much to take into account just yet.  FF combat should be more about layers and complexity than visceral reaction.  Combos and Limit Breaks should be a big part of making that happen.  However, for now, all we can do is speculate (in both directions) as to whether or not that will work out.

Beta will  be interesting!

Originally posted by alyosha17

After playing the alpha, I have to warn you, this game suuucks.  Also, don't post screenshots of the original, as it's a form of deception.  A Realm Reborn is greatly downgraded from that, graphically.

 

All Yoshi knows how to do is copy WoW.

LOL, this guy again won,t let this game go. It didn't go the direction you wanted it so the game must die huh?  

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by alyosha17
 

LOL, this guy again won,t let this game go. It didn't go the direction you wanted it so the game must die huh?  

Was just trying to warn you.  I'm thinking of your welfare here.

Originally posted by alyosha17

Originally posted by drivendawn

Originally posted by alyosha17
 

LOL, this guy again won,t let this game go. It didn't go the direction you wanted it so the game must die huh?  

Was just trying to warn you.  I'm thinking of your welfare here.

 

Your warning falls on deaf ears played alpha love it so far.

Originally posted by alyosha17

After playing the alpha, I have to warn you, this game suuucks.  Also, don't post screenshots of the original, as it's a form of deception.  A Realm Reborn is greatly downgraded from that, graphically.

 

All Yoshi knows how to do is copy WoW.

How is this comment even remotely helpful?  You dont even explain what is so poor about the game. Mechanics? Gameplay? UI? All of it?  This is useless.

'Copy WoW' is a generic statement.  There are honestly some things that WoW did right and I wouldnt mind seeing in FF.  But you didnt present a clear argument so that is moot here.

I channel the others here and prefer "slower" combat over "action-based" combat.   What I have seen so far this looks promising and will definitely try it out for a month.  In its initial offering I didnt even feel inclined to download it.

As a avid FFXI fan (think I logged over a full year on there servers (actual time online))

I am happy to say, the new(old?) features are more then welcome!

Slower based combat, expanded crafting? more centered twards parties? yes please.

Originally posted by Silok

Originally posted by Fendel84M

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Well, I think in the spirit of the Final Fantasy series combat isn't supposed to be run around action based. As it is it looks a lot quicker FFXI but I dont think most Final Fantasy fans want an action based combat.

Exactly, FF is about tactics and position not running around the mob like rabbit on drugs.

im not asking for action combat, i said active combat (with more movement involved). I agree with you two that FF has always been more about tactics but there is zero tactics in a static combat. Even FF single player games had more tactics and even more movement with its dated turn based combat. These videos of ARR shows the typical asian combat where nobody moves around and everyone just clicks skills and endure enemy attacks from the same spot.

Originally posted by rojo6934
i am looking forward to A Realm Reborn, but please Square Enix.... these videos show horrible static combat. That is a huge deal to me and im sure many people agrees. A game like Guild Wars 2 that doesnt even have a subscription managed to make active combat. If ARR reborn relaunches with this silly "my shoes are glued to the ground" combat i wont pay a subscription for it. That is enough deal breaker to me. Specially as a black mage. Add either instant cast or let casting work while moving. Or come up with something to make us more active while fighting.

Action combat (TERA/RaiderZ and GW2) have their fans, but FF has always been more about timing/sequence and knowing ones role, and what to do, when, than it has been bouncing around like a mad superball. ^^

Different games for different people.  The more I see of this game, the more interesting it looks. Lets see how it plays.

Originally posted by alyosha17

After playing the alpha, I have to warn you, this game suuucks.  Also, don't post screenshots of the original, as it's a form of deception.  A Realm Reborn is greatly downgraded from that, graphically.

 

All Yoshi knows how to do is copy WoW.

Given the mans past history, I'd say that Yoshi P pretty much knows what FF fans want.  Its moving beyond that limited demographic that is required to make the game more successful.

Unlike many here, I still consider WoW to be a good game, all the way to level cap.  It has years and years of content, and a great deal of polish at this point.  It has made Blizzard *billions* of dollars over the years.  It would hardly have done that, if many millions of people hadn't enjoyed the game enough to pay a monthly subscription for years and years.  Not to mention millions paying for the four expansions.

If he can take some of the elements that make WoW popular, and give them a FF twist, it will be interesting to see how it works out.  I'm quite looking forwards to seeing how the game plays.  If its entertaining, that all I'm looking for.

Originally posted by JudgeUK

Appreciate the history lesson.

It would be relatively easy to point out that a lot of these features should have been in from day one, but at least they are there now.

It will take a heck of a lot of marketing to inspire some people to spend money again on FFXIV no matter what the prefix. A lot of people weren't just burnt by the original launch, they where incinerated.

Maybe a wise approach will be to hold off for a while after ARR launch until several reviews are published. 

Anyone who was 'burnt' by the original release doesn't have to spend any money. If you bought the game before the relaunch it's still valid to play ARR and all old accounts will get 30 days free playtime at (re)launch as well. SE is well aware that most people will hold off on giving the game a second chance but there's no reason not to now as it's essentially free to try if you already have an account or old access key...

You have Tera and GW2 with diffrent combat soon Blade and Soul, you cant demand all mmo's needs to copy a 6 button skill bar with dodge.

Final Fantasy needs to remain the way it was or it isnt Final Fantasy anymore.

Might as wel call it Guildwars 3 then dont we ?

Originally posted by JudgeUK

Appreciate the history lesson.

It would be relatively easy to point out that a lot of these features should have been in from day one, but at least they are there now.

It will take a heck of a lot of marketing to inspire some people to spend money again on FFXIV no matter what the prefix. A lot of people weren't just burnt by the original launch, they where incinerated.

Maybe a wise approach will be to hold off for a while after ARR launch until several reviews are published. 

All those that already spent money can just DL ARR and get a month free play to trial out. They dont have to spend a dime again. Any one else could sign up for open beta early jan and test game out. Its nice the chracters from open beta will stay for final release.