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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Free mmo vs subscription

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28 posts found
  Kain_Dale

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/06/06
Posts: 380

 
OP  12/27/12 1:37:04 AM#1

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

Free MMORPG or Subscription Game?

Free-MMORPG
Subscription
(login to vote)
ultrainfinita Xfire Miniprofile
  ZombieKen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/27/12 1:47:01 AM#2

Lately I've been playing free access games exclusively.

 

In my case, the biggest issue is that I'm not finding subscription games that offer the type of gameplay that I'm interested in.  I'm burnt on quest-hub hopping.  I don't PvP.  I'm not interested in single player style storyline gameplay in an MMO framework.  That pretty much wipes out the whole genre.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  Marirranya

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 154

12/27/12 3:29:51 AM#3
doesnt matter to me whether its free to play or pay to play as long as i enjoy the games heh :3

There are people who play games and then there are gamers.

http://alzplz.blogspot.com

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4754

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/27/12 3:35:31 AM#4

here's enough F2P mmo's out there to be able to rotate between them and never pay yet always have what to play.

 

I like to think of that as 'beating' the system.

  Kuro1n

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/03/07
Posts: 777

12/27/12 5:29:20 AM#5
I prefer sub games however I only sub for games I think are really good, problem is when those games don't have a trial so you can't see if you enjoy the games or not.
  MyTabbycat

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 306

12/27/12 5:58:04 AM#6

I'm surprised you didn't mention Buy - to - Play MMO's which are gaining in popularity.

B2P games are the ones where you purchase the game itself and unlock all the game content with your purchase. These games have a cash shop with cosmetic items, boosts, purchasable storage and character slots and possibly a few other items. Example: GW2 and (more recently) TSW.

I voted sub fee, but I would have been tempted to vote for the B2P model if it had been available.

  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3210

"A very special kind of stupidity"

12/27/12 6:07:29 AM#7
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

 

It's not a consideration to me. I play EVE, and a subscription to that costs £49.99 for 180 days. Thats... 36p per day. I can't even buy a packet of gum for that amount these days. I generally have a couple of drinks while I'm playing, and the 2 or 3 bottles of beer or the bottle of wine I get through will cost me 7-15 times what that day's subscription.

And even that's not the biggest investment; I value 3 or 4 hours of my free time far more than then value of a bottle of wine, let alone 36p.

I literally don't care if the game is sub or F2P. I care that it's interesting, unpredictable, engaging, well coded and has a great community I can interact with. If it doesn't, then I don't give a crap that it's "free", because it's not; it just cost me 4 hours I'll never get back.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/27/12 6:56:12 AM#8
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

You listed the negative aspects of F2P and positive aspects of Subscription. The best part is that most, if not all, on your list are cmpletely subjective.   Way to go, sport.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3418

12/27/12 7:05:02 AM#9

     I used to be a sub fan when the cost of playing was justified, but not today..  Times have changed..  First the cost of servers are so cheap compared to yesterday, you can no longer use that excuse as the primary reason for monthly subscriptions.. Added countent and changes were part of the sub. That used to hold true when Blizzard and others used to have speical events for free, but those events now are just being recycled with little or no changes from previous versions.. 

     Honestly, I believe that the normal $15 per month sub is there for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only..  1) It became an easy cash cow for those companies that can get away with it.. 2) It is a competitive way of killing off the competition.. When you are king of the mountain, or one of the big boys, you use monthly subs to keep your grip of customers..  An established company like Blizzard that has extra $$$ laying around can dictate terms.. If you a new upcoming MMO you have 2 choices, you can either charge a sub, and hope like hell you can justify with the content in the game.. (This is hard to do with any new game in today's market), or you go B2P or F2P to attrack the players, but then you have to settle for much less monthly revenue and again hope you can added the needed content to stay afloat..

     This is just like the old days of monopoly business tactics.. Just like in the days of Standard Oil.. They were established with extra $$ and was able to squeeze out the competition by dictating price.. I believe we have a handful of games that are able to do as they wish with subs or not..  The rest are pretty much forced to buckle and offer their games as an extreme discount.. Business is business ..

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

12/27/12 7:07:59 AM#10
Originally posted by MyTabbycat

I'm surprised you didn't mention Buy - to - Play MMO's which are gaining in popularity.

And it shouldn't be gaining popularity. MMO gamers need to get that idiotic term out of their head right now. Marketing is laughing their way to the bank over that one. It's a term a small group of MMO gamers have sold to themselves in their constant quest to label and position titles.

Your B2P games will be item malls with a box fee up front. Actually, they currently are. You cheered on GW2 as this business model saviour - Buy to Play YAY!

It's a free to play MMO where they managed to get you to shell out cash before you even started playing, and you praised them for it. The same crowd that villifies any dev that goes the free to play route.

 

"But it's not Free to Play. There's a box fee. It's Buy to Play."

 

You are about to not only usher in but welcome and celebrate a new change in F2P in NA/EU. A box fee up front on an otherwise free to play game. The typical dev line will be "Oh, we make our money off of the box. The ingame store is just cosmetic extras for the people that want it." And you're going to believe it, pay for it, and love it. :)

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  AwDiddums

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/12
Posts: 386

12/27/12 7:14:44 AM#11

There is no such thing as a Free Lunch, you will pay one way or the other, none of these companies that run the F2P MMO's are charities, they have overheads to cover, they have wages to pay, they need to make a profit to keep the game up.

I'm in the Buy 2 Play camp, F2P has limits in place that end up seeing you pay more than a subscription if you want to get the most out of the game, the F2P aspect is a con to lure new ppl into the game, stay put as a subscriber when your game goes F2P because your the one that wins in this situation, well 99% of the time you do.

Buy 2 Play will still see me having to fork out cash every so often for the new exp pac but at least there isn't the need to constantly hand over a monthly amount of cash for very little new game content, for example if WoW was to generate cash from a B2P model I believe it would be struggling after the initial purchase of it's base product, it's just too slow in pushing out real content updates that would qualify for extra payments, it would need to push out game content at a regular pace to stay afloat, or push it's cash shop even harder into players faces.

So I'm a big NO to F2P because all you get is a bare bones game that dangles all the good bits at you at an inflated price.

 

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/27/12 7:45:12 AM#12
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

3. A few years ago sure and obviously there are still some with bad or average graphics, then again same goes for sub games. There isn't much difference between the two really.

1. That's just a illusion cause you know it aint true that a sub-fee game offers fair competetion. Atleast with F2P games the type of player who spends rl money is more open about it. In a sub-fee game those who use 3rd party goldscammers or item/gear/armor website will most likely not be so open about it.

I also do not believe that game company's don't put passion into their game cause lets face you should have some passion if you're going to devote many years on one project, working on irregular hours. And then hear some forum posters think they could do better without actually any developing experiance as often they even say they got a whole lot of gaming experiance. Still doesn't make one a developer if one only play's games.

Is it greed? well I guess some people have so much money laying around, are likely to invest millions of dollars yet don't expect some return revenue cause those forum poster developers are so noble and only want a gamers game. Yeah right....

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2542

12/27/12 7:56:22 AM#13
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.  to grind, just by what you posted.

Your post shows that you have a bias against F2P games. If you want a poll, you should have just introdced the poll without the post.

Allods Online was decent before they went P2W and it had good graphics with full acces. Not sure what games you are talking about.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7430

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/27/12 8:03:45 AM#14
Originally posted by Robokapp

here's enough F2P mmo's out there to be able to rotate between them and never pay yet always have what to play.

 

I like to think of that as 'beating' the system.

 

I think of it as a payment model that creates a transient and non invested playerbase that at the every least makes it harder to form communities, at least decent ones, in these games.

It also means that the focus shifts from inter dependent co-op based challenging gameplay towards solo ez mode hand held gameplay as the modern 'F2P' ADHD player base moves from one game to the next but still demands the same rewards as the committed player (even if they have to buy them from a cash shop).

 

I personally loathe the cash shop model and no game IMO has ever been improved by it. In fact, many are damaged with the changes to core game design and manipulation needed to steer consumers into their shops.

£2.50 a week simply is not a barrier to me playing the game I enjoy and I won't choose a game I find less fun because it's 'free'. My gaming time is worth more then that.

 

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5343

12/27/12 8:09:42 AM#15
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.

 

Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access

 

Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access

 

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

3. A few years ago sure and obviously there are still some with bad or average graphics, then again same goes for sub games. There isn't much difference between the two really.

1. That's just a illusion cause you know it aint true that a sub-fee game offers fair competetion. Atleast with F2P games the type of player who spends rl money is more open about it. In a sub-fee game those who use 3rd party goldscammers or item/gear/armor website will most likely not be so open about it.

I also do not believe that game company's don't put passion into their game cause lets face you should have some passion if you're going to devote many years on one project, working on irregular hours. And then hear some forum posters think they could do better without actually any developing experiance as often they even say they got a whole lot of gaming experiance. Still doesn't make one a developer if one only play's games.

Is it greed? well I guess some people have so much money laying around, are likely to invest millions of dollars yet don't expect some return revenue cause those forum poster developers are so noble and only want a gamers game. Yeah right....

your argument that P2P games dont promote fair competition is more than a little misleading, as your suggesting that breaching a games EULA and using 3rd parties etc, cannot cost you your account with a particular game, which it most assuredly does, not to mention that even using such services is the reason why a good many players end up losing their accounts to hackers in the first place.  And somehow that is worse than games where any given outcome is dependant on how much you've spent in the games cash shop recently.. 

Personally i'd always vote P2P vs F2P, although B2P is something of a 'grey area' particularly where a B2P game also has a cash shop that sells in game items, or items that can be used to trade for in game items. With P2P you know where you are in terms of PVP, though usualy its on some kind of item treadmill... being able to 'bypass' this treadmill with cash in a F2P game though, probably appeals to some more than others, i guess it depends on whether you value success at a price over success as a result of effort.

  Roguewiz

Elite Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 557

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

12/27/12 8:33:26 AM#16

I prefer a 3rd option:  Freemium.  Basically, a game that you can play for free, buy points, and use those points to purchase content; or, you can subscribe.  I use DDO as a good example.  I can subscribe and get 500pts per month.  I can then use those points to purchase content, which is then completely unlocked.  Afterwards, if I should decide, I can cancel and have the ability to access content that you'd normally need to purchase anyways or subscribe to get.

I bought the Collectors addition for their expansion. In doing so, I also got a huge discount on 15,000 Turbine Pts.  I then turned around, used all those points to purchase all the content up until that point (that I didn't already have unlocked), as well as the races and classes.  I haven't paid for the game since then other than an occasional stat tome.

The usual arguement I hear is that games can't release content quick enough if they're free, or, the content is lackluster.  However, that holds true for even Subscription based games.  Games can't release content fast enough, that much we know.  Same gamers could care less about the leveling process and prefer the end-game, so they rush.

Let's not also forget that the Dev Cycle is long and difficult.  Releasing content that will keep your customer entertained and paying is difficult.  Look at Blizzard.  They generally release good content, but it takes them forever.  By then they have lost some players (who do eventually come back for the content).

TLDR Version:

  • Freemium Games Preferred if the model allows you to purchase content and keep it, or subscribe and get points to purchase that content
  • Subscription Games, but only if the game is good enough.
  • Item Malls:  Not my preferred choice, but if the game allows you to play the game without HAVING to rely on the item mall, then sure.

Raquelis in various games
Raquelis, Blood Elf Warlock, Area-52
Hungweilao, Pandaren Monk, Area-52
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  PsiKahn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/26/12
Posts: 124

12/27/12 8:43:02 AM#17

I certainly like things that are free, but unfortunately F2P is anything but.  Look, they're both viable models for the right game.  On a personal level I have a harder time paying for digital content a la carte, but then again I am the kind of person who still buys whole albums most of the time and not just singles off iTunes.

I think that if a game aspires to create a robust "virtual world" first and foremost, the subscription model is preferable, as it does not let real-world economics shape the game world.  That said, I think many subscription games do a poor job justifying their monthly payment, as the consumer takeaway often chalks up to little more than server maintenance.  A game with real game managers creating live content would much more readily get my 10-15 bucks a month.

  thinktank001

Elite Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1913

12/27/12 8:48:39 AM#18
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

 

Do you have any evidence to support this statement?   All evidence outside of Asia points to cash shop based games only being more profitable than failed subscription based games. 

  Roguewiz

Elite Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 557

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

12/27/12 8:56:22 AM#19
Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to subscribe to a game (doing so now with Planetside 2).  As long as it is fresh and different than the rest.  Re-hashes of existing games because it "works" is boring and a waste of money.

Raquelis in various games
Raquelis, Blood Elf Warlock, Area-52
Hungweilao, Pandaren Monk, Area-52
Played: Everything
Playing: Hearthstone, League of Legends, World of Warcraft, Destiny (XBOX ONE)
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Warhammer 40K

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/27/12 9:01:14 AM#20
Originally posted by Phry

 

your argument that P2P games dont promote fair competition is more than a little misleading, as your suggesting that breaching a games EULA and using 3rd parties etc, cannot cost you your account with a particular game, which it most assuredly does, not to mention that even using such services is the reason why a good many players end up losing their accounts to hackers in the first place.  And somehow that is worse than games where any given outcome is dependant on how much you've spent in the games cash shop recently.. 

Personally i'd always vote P2P vs F2P, although B2P is something of a 'grey area' particularly where a B2P game also has a cash shop that sells in game items, or items that can be used to trade for in game items. With P2P you know where you are in terms of PVP, though usualy its on some kind of item treadmill... being able to 'bypass' this treadmill with cash in a F2P game though, probably appeals to some more than others, i guess it depends on whether you value success at a price over success as a result of effort.

You are right a sub-fee game itself offers a fair competition. I should have said that there are people that don't care about EULA's which make them come into sub-fee games where we the fair player never truly know if the person infront of you played fair or has taking unfair advantages thru 3rd party website's. Kinda the reason why I personaly feel it's a illusion to think sub-fee games are fair but not due to the game setup but due to it's players. Hopefully it makes more sense now in what I meant?

If a F2P game is fun to me and if I am able to aquire everything the cashshops offer pure by playing the game I have no problems with a cashshop. Will the game prevent me from having fun the way I would expect and if I need to purchase items/quest or what ever then I simply stop playing.

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