Originally posted by cagan

I dont do WvW anymore, you know why? What's the point?

I used spend hours so that my server climbs up the ladder and meet stronger and better opponents. I used to defend a castle for hours dying multiple times and paying a lot of repairs so that my faction will control the castle...

Then one day I woke up and asked myself? Whats the point?

As my server goes up the ladder and as me and myguildmates spend many hours and lots of gold on this cause what do we get back? Don't tell me you get more benefits for your server as you get higher points. The benefits are almost negligible. Maybe 2% more crafting xp boost and 2% more gold from monster.

I just spend 4 hours  defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...

Now the biggest catch, what do we do when we go Wvw now? me and coupel friends just hop from one instance to another just capping the supply camps for karma, sometimes we cap undefended castles too, but dont defend it. It all turned into a big zerg around the map capping as many things in a little time and let them get capped by the enemy so u can cap them again.

At one point it was 3 big zergs of 3 servers going clockwise around the battleground just capping everything and not defending so the next group can capture it. Why defend it? whats the reward? Karma farming with a group of opposite faction is much faster, everyone is sarting to do this now...

(edit: before ppl say u get points for defending too, NO, its just a small fraction of what you would get if you were capturing it. and also its still bugged, I can stay inside the castle for hours and maybe get 1 out of 3 or 4 defense rewards)

i joined WvW for a few days and at some point i just asked myself why i do this. 

WvW in GW2 is pointless and a waste of time. sure its fun for a bit but then it becomes dull and repeative.

you take a spot they retake it and and and........

GW2 overall is a pretty dull, childish and uncomplex game. its made for 12 year olds that cant handle more than 10 skills at once....

5 attacks

3 utilities

1 elite

Thats Guild Wars 2..... i regret buying it.. 

Originally posted by Bebboh

I cant stand Guild Wars 2 but why does there need to be a point? Isnt the point of playing games to have fun. If your not having that then I guess the game is not for you.

Why not have a point and have fun, fun and no point equals boring and repetitive. Anyone who has only just figure out that GW2  WvWvW is pointless has no one but themselves to blame.

Originally posted by amadeuz

I guess many people here expect to acquire the new tier powerful gears after killing bunch of other players in WvW

//genius :)

Umm no..even new armor sets for pure asthetic would be more than enough. Why does it always have to be next tier of gear? and didn't PVE guys got new fractal armor so why not PVP?

Originally posted by Mahavishnu
So what's the point of pick-up basketball? There is no reward, but in the summer the playgrounds are crowded the whole day.

Ahh...the real life analogy. It has to come up sooner or later.

Originally posted by Goromhir

Originally posted by cagan

I dont do WvW anymore, you know why? What's the point?

I used spend hours so that my server climbs up the ladder and meet stronger and better opponents. I used to defend a castle for hours dying multiple times and paying a lot of repairs so that my faction will control the castle...

Then one day I woke up and asked myself? Whats the point?

As my server goes up the ladder and as me and myguildmates spend many hours and lots of gold on this cause what do we get back? Don't tell me you get more benefits for your server as you get higher points. The benefits are almost negligible. Maybe 2% more crafting xp boost and 2% more gold from monster.

I just spend 4 hours  defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...

Now the biggest catch, what do we do when we go Wvw now? me and coupel friends just hop from one instance to another just capping the supply camps for karma, sometimes we cap undefended castles too, but dont defend it. It all turned into a big zerg around the map capping as many things in a little time and let them get capped by the enemy so u can cap them again.

At one point it was 3 big zergs of 3 servers going clockwise around the battleground just capping everything and not defending so the next group can capture it. Why defend it? whats the reward? Karma farming with a group of opposite faction is much faster, everyone is sarting to do this now...

(edit: before ppl say u get points for defending too, NO, its just a small fraction of what you would get if you were capturing it. and also its still bugged, I can stay inside the castle for hours and maybe get 1 out of 3 or 4 defense rewards)

i joined WvW for a few days and at some point i just asked myself why i do this. 

WvW in GW2 is pointless and a waste of time. sure its fun for a bit but then it becomes dull and repeative.

you take a spot they retake it and and and........

GW2 overall is a pretty dull, childish and uncomplex game. its made for 12 year olds that cant handle more than 10 skills at once....

5 attacks

3 utilities

1 elite

Thats Guild Wars 2..... i regret buying it.. 

I'd just point out one thing about the 10 skills. The skills are purposeply made that way because that way you can change your skills for a specific situation, not just all skills at your disposal in many action bars. It was used to make the game somewhat more challenging. Now about the dull and repetetive part, I agree with you there because right now I haven't maxed my main yet even after all these months and i just quitted after a few months. Maybe for some or even most GW2 is worth the price but for the others like you it's not, just goes to show that GW2 is not for everybody.

Everything online is imaginary, but it has to inspire your imagination. Faction based combat on the same server does that. Server versus server never will.

Originally posted by sketchy_

Originally posted by Zalmon

Originally posted by sketchy_

What's the point? To have fun maybe.

Why do you play games in general? Most likely becuase you find it entertaining.

I know I still have a blast in WvW. Running around with guild groups and taking on massive numbers. That's always been the part of larger scale pvp I found fun. Being outnumbered and coming out as the winner.

And fun is subjective. While some people don't care for progression and rewards in PVP but others do? why not create a balance for both type of players? no side is better or more entitled than the other because there is not just one way to have fun in an MMO.

From your posts it sounds as if your way of playing the game is the only fun way.

I said what I found fun. That doesn't apply to everyone.

On the other hand I don't understand people that need a carrot to keep on playing. What do you do when you get your gear/title/achievement or whatever it is? Quit? Wait for the next expansion with new carrots to chase? Sounds kinda of boring if you ask me.

As long as I have fun I will continue to play and what I wrote in my first post was an example of why I still have fun in WvW.

 

And i am still telling you that fun is subjective. So if you understand that, i don't think there is any reason to get all surprised as to why others enjoy gear progression.  Progression has always been a staple feature of MMOS and it will always will be in one form or another.

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by KingJiggly

Originally posted by Aquazen

Originally posted by Starpower
A lot of posters here either forgot all about DAoC or never played it. Controlling relics and keeps mattered. You could also control darkness falls. PvP doesn't have to be a mindless zerg fest. That's a fault that lies within the game and not a players mentality. If people are satisfied with killing for the sake of killing then I'm sure GW2 is a great game. For somebody like me that expects a little more I think I did the right thing by passing this game by

   /\

   Although I still have fun with WvW in GW2, it's just that kind of game, casual at best.

The reason daoc mattered was becuase you were part of something huge. It was almost like nationalism, something I do not feel while playing gw2. Relics and keeps truthfully had no real affect on me or the gameplay, heck wvw affects the pve server more than daoc did, yet it still mattered more simply because your "country" won it.

This would've mattered more with factions.  This where i think GW2 went wrong.  They tried to have server pride instead of faction pride.

Exactly. Once they remove free server transfers, it will hopefully die down. 

Originally posted by cagan

I dont do WvW anymore, you know why? What's the point?

I used spend hours so that my server climbs up the ladder and meet stronger and better opponents. I used to defend a castle for hours dying multiple times and paying a lot of repairs so that my faction will control the castle...

Then one day I woke up and asked myself? Whats the point?

As my server goes up the ladder and as me and myguildmates spend many hours and lots of gold on this cause what do we get back? Don't tell me you get more benefits for your server as you get higher points. The benefits are almost negligible. Maybe 2% more crafting xp boost and 2% more gold from monster.

I just spend 4 hours  defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...

Now the biggest catch, what do we do when we go Wvw now? me and coupel friends just hop from one instance to another just capping the supply camps for karma, sometimes we cap undefended castles too, but dont defend it. It all turned into a big zerg around the map capping as many things in a little time and let them get capped by the enemy so u can cap them again.

At one point it was 3 big zergs of 3 servers going clockwise around the battleground just capping everything and not defending so the next group can capture it. Why defend it? whats the reward? Karma farming with a group of opposite faction is much faster, everyone is sarting to do this now...

(edit: before ppl say u get points for defending too, NO, its just a small fraction of what you would get if you were capturing it. and also its still bugged, I can stay inside the castle for hours and maybe get 1 out of 3 or 4 defense rewards)

WvW has its problems.....I agree.  However, It is hard for me to sit and read your OP and not respond. 

You (and many others) sit and complain about WvW and how it is a zerg fest.  The 3 big zergs travelling in a clockwise circle around the map., it is a mindless and effortless way to play.   Are you telling me that at no point someone with half a brain said, "Hey, how about we travel COUNTER-clockwise?"   I challenge you to join one of the top three tier 1 American servers.  While it can get "zergy" at times.....your experience on these maps isnt a zerg fest travelling in a mindless circle.  That zerg would be intercepted and demolished. 

It takes approx 1/3 the amount of players to bust an enemy zerg (Maybe less).  Think about that for a sec. 

I have no pity for people who claim WvW is boring and at the same time sit and follow a mindless zerg around the map.  My advice would be to find an experienced commander and follow him instead.  Or use all that "expertise and know-how" that you have and become a commander yourself.

On a side note:  I admit that WvW is less interesting to me than it was at launch.  So, I took a break from it and recently came back.  All is well now.

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by cagan

I just spend 4 hours  defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...

 

This is biggest issue with WvW. The cost of upgrades, and siege equipment is just about as close to p2w as it gets. I didn't say it was, but close. The more you're in there the more you feel and see it. Buying WMDs with cash in a mmorpg is real iffy. At the very least wVw is an amazingly huge and effficient gold sink.

 

 

How in the world do you people loos so much silver  in WvW? Do the jumping puzzle that are there and you get siege equipment and enough badges to buy extra. I wonder because i always come out making more silver than i went in with. I don't understand how people have money issues because making gold in GW2 is just to easy.

Originally posted by TCTC

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by cagan

I just spend 4 hours  defending that castle last week, what was the reward for me or my guild? Did my guild get a reward for defending our castle? No, we actually lost a lot of gold buying siege engines and repairing. Maybe we won a little karma but thats it...

 

This is biggest issue with WvW. The cost of upgrades, and siege equipment is just about as close to p2w as it gets. I didn't say it was, but close. The more you're in there the more you feel and see it. Buying WMDs with cash in a mmorpg is real iffy. At the very least wVw is an amazingly huge and effficient gold sink.

 

 

How in the world do you people loos so much silver  in WvW? Do the jumping puzzle that are there and you get siege equipment and enough badges to buy extra. I wonder because i always come out making more silver than i went in with. I don't understand how people have money issues because making gold in GW2 is just to easy.

I'm with you. I don't understand it either. I made a profit of about a gold yesterday in 3 hours of playing WvWvW. I guess some people just die way to much.

Originally posted by Bebboh

I cant stand Guild Wars 2 but why does there need to be a point? Isnt the point of playing games to have fun. If your not having that then I guess the game is not for you.

I think his argument is similar to mine. My argument is that the drop rates in the open world are now so abysmal there's no point in logging in. You see my play style has been eradicated entirely. I'm one of the legit farmers that Anet's JonPeter's says he supports and loves, but they still haven't done a single thing about the drop rates 2 months later.

People have given me the same argument you have given the OP. The problem isn't us. The problem is the game. 0 rewards for time spent is still 0. There's no cosmetic rewards to speak of, there's restricted access to karma vendors, there's nothing really for the WvW crowd as far as i can tell.

I am angry about this problem too. He's got a different problem but they are both related.

Lack of rewards for time spent is a very big problem in MMO's because you basically don't get anything from the gameplay.

This game is not a dungeon crawler, it's an mmo themepark with some sandbox elements, it needs rewards to keep players enjoying themselves.

Even the elephant in the room knows that. So they added currencies you can actually use without the need for others coming to help (like they have in Orr right now, requires at least 5 man to buy anything). They need something similar for WvW and they need rankings from what I've read.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Tctc:
So basicly pve Mario to pay for pvp?

Its just one easy way to get siege equipment. A very easy way. I mean i guess it could be difficult if you are getting ganked but its still one way of getting some siege without having to spend any of your money. I rather enjoy the pvp in GW2 even without knowing who it is im attacking. I like how everyone rallys together in WvW.  Seems some people are still use to being the person people feared or atleast acknoledged when it comes to world pvp. Had my fair share of that in Aion for almost 3 years on Zikel. But thats not what GW2 is about!

Originally posted by eyelolled

What is the "point" of any activity in any game?  Where is the true value of anything that comes from a videogame?  Maybe you should figure that one out.

 

 

Sure, enjoyment is the primary factor in past time activities.  Whether that be reading a book, watching a movie, playing a game, etc. 

Yet in a lot of games I play them because I want to see the story and finish it to its conclusion.  Or I might want to see my character get more powerful.  Or I might want to conquer the enemy (pvp). 

Games do need to have a "point" in anything you do.  No?  You disagree perhaps?  Then why is it, since the very first video games were they literally putting POINTS in games?  Or a "score" in other words.  You were trying to get a good "score".  See?  Games have always had a point.  Even since they first began.  You wanted to get a high score.  Or beat the game.  Or beat the level.  Or beat the boss. 

I love GW2.  Its a fantastic game.  However one thing I'm getting sick of, is fans of the game flaming anyone who has a problem with a part of the game.  Where are the suggestions that could make the game better?  Not only that, but I've suggested things that I think could be improvements and other fans won't even hear them.  It's apparently perfect the way it is. 

No its not.  GW2 is not perfect and there could be a whole host of improvements to make it better.  Giving WvW more of a point could really help things.  I'm sure there are some mechanics Anet could add that would benefit WvW. 

No game will ever yield some long-term fulfilling feeling. If you look at it like that, you'll get miserable quick, because they are the worst thing to do for long-term fulfillment.

The only value in these games is at-the-moment entertainment. Your reward is dominating the competition at that moment, being better at that moment, coordinating efforts to be better for a moment.

There are surely already many guilds that have quit GW2, but have a fond memory of a nail-biting battle against a prestigious top-ranked competitor. That's what you push for in these games, not some trophy a dev puts in.

If you want something that you can wake up in a year or two and not worry about saying "what's the point?", go pick up a musical instrument, or learn some form of architecture. All of these games will fall from popularity and one day your 'hard work' will be visibly fruitless.

Other than karma-trains that I just follow the zergs in, I have no use for WvW.

It is pretty much follow the person -> auto attack stuff -> get Karma.

I recall ANet getting feedback on that during the beta, guess the 'we listen' is another cliche for ANet.

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Originally posted by aesperus

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Originally posted by Wickedjelly I did it for the entertainment value. Never really was about the reward factor for me. Suppose it depends on what you expect to gain far as how much or for how long you will enjoy WvW.

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This ^

A baffling thing to think about, is if you take the OP's mentallity and apply it to ANY other genre, it doesn't make sense. So why with MMOs?

Why do MMOs have to have rewards for everything? Why the carrot? Heck, do you play TF2 for the hats? Do you play BF3 for the upgrades, and then put it down once you got the upgrade u want? Do you play skyrim for the epic axe of badassery, and then quit once you have it?

Seriously, whatever happened to playing games for fun? There are games for those that want an endless reward dispenser (D3, Borderlands 2, TL2, etc.) and honestly, I find each and every one of them to get boring fairly quick. I have far more fun playing game after game of Natural Selection 2, or Starcraft, or Planetside 2, or Civ 5, etc. etc. etc. all of which provide barely any reward outside of the knowledge that I either played well or poorly. But that's part of the fun, isn't it? Taking it upon yourself to tackle challenges, and trying to triumph against greater odds.

WvW may be 'pointless', but It's rare that I have as much fun as I do trying to defend stonemist from 3x as many invaders. I don't fight wars for magic underpants, I fight them to try and win.

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Dont ever compare MMO pvp to the likes of TF2 and BF3. Those are real PVP games that take skill, therefore its fun to win at. MMO PvP is a joke always has been. MMO anythings always a joke therefore rewards are required.