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General Gaming »  PC Gaming  » Will a tablet era ruin PC gaming?

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  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10552

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/26/12 2:22:09 PM#21


Originally posted by SEANMCAD
 

Originally posted by DrCokePepsi  ...
 

yes and no. PC gaming will die namely because industry as a whole (hardware and software) are pushing gaming away from PC gaming. Its more of a supplyside issue than demand I think. So its not the tablet specifically but rather a lack of drive on taking the PC to the full extent possible




PC gaming is the only sector or the PC market that is actually picking up and selling more stuff. The basic PC market took a hit and the laptop market took a hit, but the gaming PC market is actually growing. I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to see things all go to a console, but there's a limit to how much they can push things that way.

** edit **

A reference article on PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/20/next-gen-consoles-will-struggle-to-beat-pc-say-industry-insiders/

** edit edit **
I put that link there so you'd know I wasn't just making stuff up. There are more articles online about the PC gaming market growing instead of shrinking, even with the other economic stuff going on.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  iamrta

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/11
Posts: 164

12/26/12 2:30:26 PM#22

"Will a tablet era ruin PC gaming?"

Just received a Nexus 7 yesterday, my first tablet. Spent today unlocking and rooting. And I say...no it won't. 

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/26/12 2:30:35 PM#23
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by SEANMCAD
 

Originally posted by DrCokePepsi  ...
 

 

yes and no. PC gaming will die namely because industry as a whole (hardware and software) are pushing gaming away from PC gaming. Its more of a supplyside issue than demand I think. So its not the tablet specifically but rather a lack of drive on taking the PC to the full extent possible




PC gaming is the only sector or the PC market that is actually picking up and selling more stuff. The basic PC market took a hit and the laptop market took a hit, but the gaming PC market is actually growing. I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to see things all go to a console, but there's a limit to how much they can push things that way.

** edit **

A reference article on PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/20/next-gen-consoles-will-struggle-to-beat-pc-say-industry-insiders/

 

This also has to do with an inevitable limit on console games.  The hardware gets old faster than the makers can justify forcing people to upgrade, and the console game developers are coding for a specific hardware target in a lot of cases.  The best games on the 360 look like arse compared to what a medium-powered gaming PC can do.

 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1260

12/26/12 2:36:15 PM#24

Tablet gaming...

I'd honestly rather bust out the old NES / SNES.

Tablet gaming / Twitter / facebook = Social Bacteria.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/26/12 2:36:59 PM#25
Originally posted by iamrta

"Will a tablet era ruin PC gaming?"

Just received a Nexus 7 yesterday, my first tablet. Spent today unlocking and rooting. And I say...no it won't. 

I love my Nexus 7.  Such a great little device.  I unlocked and rooted mine too, but I'm not going to use a different ROM.  We are on 4.2 now while most other devices are on much older versions.

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

12/26/12 2:42:14 PM#26
you guys didn't hear about the Angry Birds mmo? 

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10552

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/26/12 2:43:03 PM#27


Originally posted by MindTrigger

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by SEANMCAD  

Originally posted by DrCokePepsi  ...
    yes and no. PC gaming will die namely because industry as a whole (hardware and software) are pushing gaming away from PC gaming. Its more of a supplyside issue than demand I think. So its not the tablet specifically but rather a lack of drive on taking the PC to the full extent possible
PC gaming is the only sector or the PC market that is actually picking up and selling more stuff. The basic PC market took a hit and the laptop market took a hit, but the gaming PC market is actually growing. I'm sure Microsoft and Sony would love to see things all go to a console, but there's a limit to how much they can push things that way. ** edit ** A reference article on PC Gamer: http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/12/20/next-gen-consoles-will-struggle-to-beat-pc-say-industry-insiders/  
This also has to do with an inevitable limit on console games.  The hardware gets old faster than the makers can justify forcing people to upgrade, and the console game developers are coding for a specific hardware target in a lot of cases.  The best games on the 360 look like arse compared to what a medium-powered gaming PC can do.

 




Yeah, I kind of think the real loser in all of this is going to be console gaming. At least in terms of specific companies having a console. The people who want bigger, better, faster, more are going to go with PCs, and everyone else is going to buy a box that does all your media streaming, general web surfing and email, along with a bunch of games. The people who don't care about games will use regular remote controls, and the people who do will buy blue tooth game controllers. It'll be a general purpose entertainment console instead of a general purpose computer. Something like that anyway.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 501

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

12/26/12 2:53:37 PM#28

^ that

 

Generally speaking, Gaming consoles are computers.  The only thing they are lacking is the ability to us Productivity Software.  Even that may change with the release of Windows 8.  Honestly speaking, Microsoft could easily release a "XBOX Computer" that can play their games, run office, and browse the internet.

We're almost there as it is.  Think about it.  You can browse the internet, download apps to suppliment certain websites, like TNT, ESPN, Crunchyroll, Hulu, etc.

I see us moving towards your "XBOX" or "Playstation" as being your entertainment device for your TV.  Toss in an equalizer, some speakers, and you could do it right now.

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Everquest, Hearthstone, League of Legends
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Archeage

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  MoutonDocile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/12
Posts: 17

12/26/12 2:56:15 PM#29

Tablets aren't doing anything to PC gaming. They are introducing masses to gaming. I think it's a good thing .

 

Tablets are part of the transition that's been going on in the gaming industry. The casual market took off thanks to tablet, facebook games and so on.

 

The most important thing to watch out for is how is going to influence input devices. Is touch going to completely take over? I don't think so, but the era of physical input like controllers or mouse and keyboards is definitely going to end eventually. How are we going to end up? Who knows! It's probably going to be some kind of hybrid technology between all input types available.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3266

Poacher killer.

12/26/12 3:11:19 PM#30
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Tablet gaming...

I'd honestly rather bust out the old NES / SNES.

Tablet gaming / Twitter / facebook = Social Bacteria.

Yeah, lol.

The only use I have for my ipad now is bathroom reading material. My laptop and netbook are just superior pieces of technology for my needs. And don't even get me started on Twatter let alone facebook. I can't believe people are still using facebook. It's madness, I tell you ;)

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 501

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

12/26/12 3:13:56 PM#31
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Tablet gaming...

I'd honestly rather bust out the old NES / SNES.

Tablet gaming / Twitter / facebook = Social Bacteria.

Yeah, lol.

The only use I have for my ipad now is bathroom reading material. My laptop and netbook are just superior pieces of technology for my needs. And don't even get me started on Twatter let alone facebook. I can't believe people are still using facebook. It's madness, I tell you ;)

So true.  The only reason I use Facebook is because of my siblings and parents.  Otherwise, I wouldn't have it.

Also, I'm glad I'm not the only one that uses a tablet in the can.  I play Minecraft or browse ESPN while I make my "deposit" with the 1st Bank of John.

Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Everquest, Hearthstone, League of Legends
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next, Everquest Next Landmark, Archeage

The secret to making a great game: Don't cater to the masses!

  Darrgen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/10
Posts: 65

12/26/12 3:14:16 PM#32
No but i do see tablets and laptops becoming one and the same. Convertable notebooks are already happening but soon i think you will see even more kinda like the asus transformer prime book. It's a tablet the connects to a keyboard that holds a graphics card and if im not mistaken a stronger processer. So basically you can disconnect it and have the same things you get with a tablet, or connect it to the keyboard and have the power needed for gaming.
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13305

12/26/12 3:19:50 PM#33
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Quizzical

Allowing more power consumption will probably always allow for desktops to be dramatically faster than tablets.  It would take some radical and revolutionary changes--most notably including completely replacing transistors by something else--to have any chance of changing that.




I remember you talking about this in regards to the Windows RT devices. The battery life was much shorter because the processors used a lot more power.

Wouldn't heat dissipation be an issue as well? Getting something like desktop performance is going to lead to something like desktop levels of heat generation.

 

Power consumed = heat generated.  That's what happens to the power when it gets used.  It's the law of conservation of energy.

And yes, heat dissipation is the more direct problem.  From a battery perspective, you could make a tablet that puts out 40 W and just has a really short battery life.  But if you try to fit that into a typical tablet form factor, you probably have a heat-related hardware failure before you manage to drain the battery.

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6673

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

12/26/12 3:20:28 PM#34

I find console peripheral gaming is a brutal idea.Their shelf life is about 2-3 years,as the makers find new gimmicks to sell each and every christmas.Pc's although always improving,the games actually do not.Simple case in point,the devs don't want to retrain,so they stick forever with old tech.Also devs don't like to alienate customers,so yo ustill see them using DX9 ,even tohugh we have seen DX 10 [Vista] DX11 win 7 and now  Windows 8 DX libraries.We will probably see Windows 10/11/12 before we see any dev making a Win 8 game.

The problem i see is overall bandwidth ,memory and still the need for space.If a game tries to stream or play like a browser game,then yes it wil lbe crap.No question the technology is here,just look at the Epic Citadel app by Epic games.That was a simple map made by one person that is more detaield than msot otehr games maps that are doing a lot of bragging.

IMO Epic will be the ongoing leader,they are a brilliant developer and technical operation.It is just too bad they are not into making MMORPG's,i guess they really don't have the time to commit long term to a great game design.

I do not see anyone at all breaking ground before Epic,we will see tons of cheap games pop up no question about it.Every new peripheral that coems along,somebody gets rich off it because it is NEW.Then media starts telling us how great it is and they are making millions,all the while not telling you about all the devs that fail and lose their shirt.

IMO EVERYTHING we see for several years will be cheap products,fast designs ,like one year max,small teams like 30 or so and small budgets like less than 5 million.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  SEANMCAD

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 5165

12/26/12 3:23:46 PM#35

I think this conversation is a little confused, let me try to explain.

 

Tablets will not technically replace PC MMOs. That is not realistic. HOWEVER, the market is currently tapping into a large demographic that is fairly new (in that it some what was unknown) the 'casual' market. Could the industry as a whole start moving games to other non-PC devices by creating games that dont require as much processing power while at the same time reducing the amount of what we call AAA games?

 

absolutely

Correlation does not imply causation

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13305

12/26/12 3:32:24 PM#36
Originally posted by Roguewiz

Generally speaking, Gaming consoles are computers.  The only thing they are lacking is the ability to us Productivity Software.  Even that may change with the release of Windows 8.  Honestly speaking, Microsoft could easily release a "XBOX Computer" that can play their games, run office, and browse the internet.

Consoles are closed platforms, which means you can't run anything on them unless it's approved by whoever controls the platform.  PCs (whether Windows, Mac, or Linux) are open platforms, which means you can run whatever you want.  At the moment, tablets are mixed, with iOS and Windows RT as closed platforms while Google Android is an open platform.  There is a place for both in the world, and they're not interchangeable.

Consoles can't move to being open platforms, as being a closed platform is their very reason to exist.  Closed platform means piracy is much, much harder to do.  Games need robust anti-piracy measures if they want to make any money.  The only two anti-piracy measures that people have come up with that actually work are putting your game on a closed platform or requiring a constant Internet connection to play the game at all.  The latter is a problem for single-player games, especially when people want to be able to play without needing an active Internet connection.  That's why single-player games mostly stick to closed platforms.

Meanwhile, online games have the Internet connection requirement built in and have no need for closed platforms as an anti-piracy measure.  Furthermore, online games want open platforms, as that lets you update the game whenever you want, and without paying a large cut of your revenue to whoever controls the platform in order to get them to let your game run.  That's why MMORPGs on closed platforms are still very rare.

That's why it's highly probable that we'll see more MMORPGs made for Google Android than for iOS, PlayStation 4, XBox 720, and Wii U added together.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6153

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/26/12 3:40:23 PM#37
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by apocoluster
Voted Yes but ...only IF tablets ever outpace PCs for capabitlity.  Seems like it will be a while if ever..



Processing power is determined by the amount of space you have to pack transistors into. All other things being equal, the larger processor will be faster. There may be a time when tablets are "fast enough" for general computing, but the larger form factor things will be faster, have more storage and will capable of doing more general purpose work. It's going to be a very long time before processors are so fast that having a faster one doesn't matter.

 

As far as die size goes, you can make a tablet chip as big as a desktop chip.  The die in an Apple A5 (iPad 3), for example, is nearly as big as the die in a Core i7-3770K, and likely larger than the die in an A6-5400K.  The reason you can't put those other chips in a tablet is due to power consumption, not die size.

Allowing more power consumption will probably always allow for desktops to be dramatically faster than tablets.  It would take some radical and revolutionary changes--most notably including completely replacing transistors by something else--to have any chance of changing that.

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  • Intel® Core™ i5-3317U processor (1,70 GHz met Turbo Boost 2.0)
  • Windows 8 64bit , Nederlands
  • 12,5" Full HD (1.080 p) witte led-beeldscherm met TrueLife
  • 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz
  • 256 GB Solid State-harde schijf
  • Grafische oplossing: Intel® HD grafische 4000 oplossing
  • 1 jaar Next Day In-Home Hardware Premium Software Support service
  • 1.54 kg.
 
  • Intel® Core™ i7-3517U processor (1,90 GHz met Turbo Boost 2.0)
  • Windows 8 64bit , Nederlands
  • 12,5" Full HD (1.080 p) witte led-beeldscherm met TrueLife
  • 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz
  • 256 GB Solid State-harde schijf
  • Grafische oplossing: Intel® HD grafische 4000 oplossing
  • 1 jaar Next Day In-Home Hardware Premium Software Support service

 

Think we going to see more of these type of Ultra books the coming years, it's definitly not going to take another 15 to 20 years to reach today's level of pc gaming on tablet.
But to answer OP's question about "will a tablet era ruin PC gaming" Perhaps one day it will.
 
I can see it already before me in my mind, have a docking station with a high end graphics card, powersupply and a slide to place your tablet in. The tablet funtions are mainly a mainboard and CPU, the onboard graphicscard shuts off when in slide mode and the high end card in your docking stations turns on. Docking stations could be upgradable....ahh just letting my imagination run wild here....
 
It just will not happen in the comming few years, laptops have not replaced pc's even thought they also are cappable to run high end games on high end graphics.
 
Commercially speaking I also think that plugging in a tablet in some sort of docking station to be able to play high end games on your 60" tv screen is much "cooler" to do then plug in your laptop on that same tv. Imagining my docking station that is.  
  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13305

12/26/12 3:40:56 PM#38
Originally posted by Darrgen
No but i do see tablets and laptops becoming one and the same. Convertable notebooks are already happening but soon i think you will see even more kinda like the asus transformer prime book. It's a tablet the connects to a keyboard that holds a graphics card and if im not mistaken a stronger processer. So basically you can disconnect it and have the same things you get with a tablet, or connect it to the keyboard and have the power needed for gaming.

While I do think we'll see a lot more laptop/tablet hybrids as the coming year brings a lot more tablets with performance that would be acceptable for a low end laptop, I don't think that's going to come anywhere near replacing laptops.  A tablet means that all of your functional hardware has to fit in a very small space, and right behind the monitor, which doesn't like to get terribly hot.  The amount of performance you can get in a chip with a tablet-friendly 5 W TDP trails way behind what you can get in a 35 W TDP that fits comfortably in a laptop.

What you can stick in the keyboard dock side of a hybrid device is somewhat limited.  A loose guideline is that if you can get it for a desktop in an external USB device, then you could put it in the keyboard dock of a hybrid device.  Putting a keyboard and trackpad there is easy, of course.  I don't think that putting a battery or more storage (whether a hard drive or SSD) on the keyboard dock side would be all that difficult.

Putting a more powerful CPU and GPU in the keyboard dock for use when the device is used as a laptop rather than a tablet would probably mean that you have to duplicate much of the hardware on both sides.  It would be a nifty device, but that's cost++;, and it's not going to be especially portable.

  dave6660

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2338

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

12/26/12 3:41:54 PM#39
Originally posted by adeptuz
In short I see tablet gaming the same as other portable gaming platforms. Their marketing audience differs radically from desktop gaming. So I don't see it ruining PC gaming at all.

This is how I view tablet games too.

Tablets are a pretty cool invention but I can't find any use for them personally.  My phone does everything I need from a mobile computer.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13305

12/26/12 3:46:05 PM#40
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by apocoluster
Voted Yes but ...only IF tablets ever outpace PCs for capabitlity.  Seems like it will be a while if ever..



Processing power is determined by the amount of space you have to pack transistors into. All other things being equal, the larger processor will be faster. There may be a time when tablets are "fast enough" for general computing, but the larger form factor things will be faster, have more storage and will capable of doing more general purpose work. It's going to be a very long time before processors are so fast that having a faster one doesn't matter.

 

As far as die size goes, you can make a tablet chip as big as a desktop chip.  The die in an Apple A5 (iPad 3), for example, is nearly as big as the die in a Core i7-3770K, and likely larger than the die in an A6-5400K.  The reason you can't put those other chips in a tablet is due to power consumption, not die size.

Allowing more power consumption will probably always allow for desktops to be dramatically faster than tablets.  It would take some radical and revolutionary changes--most notably including completely replacing transistors by something else--to have any chance of changing that.

XPS 12 Ultrabook™ met Touch. i5 and i7 version

  • Intel® Core™ i5-3317U processor (1,70 GHz met Turbo Boost 2.0)
  • Windows 8 64bit , Nederlands
  • 12,5" Full HD (1.080 p) witte led-beeldscherm met TrueLife
  • 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz
  • 256 GB Solid State-harde schijf
  • Grafische oplossing: Intel® HD grafische 4000 oplossing
  • 1 jaar Next Day In-Home Hardware Premium Software Support service
  • 1.54 kg.
 
  • Intel® Core™ i7-3517U processor (1,90 GHz met Turbo Boost 2.0)
  • Windows 8 64bit , Nederlands
  • 12,5" Full HD (1.080 p) witte led-beeldscherm met TrueLife
  • 8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz
  • 256 GB Solid State-harde schijf
  • Grafische oplossing: Intel® HD grafische 4000 oplossing
  • 1 jaar Next Day In-Home Hardware Premium Software Support service

 

Think we going to see more of these type of Ultra books the coming years, it's definitly not going to take another 15 to 20 years to reach today's level of pc gaming on tablet.
But to answer OP's question about "will a tablet era ruin PC gaming" Perhaps one day it will.
 
I can see it already before me in my mind, have a docking station with a high end graphics card, powersupply and a slide to place your tablet in. The tablet funtions are mainly a mainboard and CPU, the onboard graphicscard shuts off when in slide mode and the high end card in your docking stations turns on. Docking stations could be upgradable....ahh just letting my imagination run wild here....
 
It just will not happen in the comming few years, laptops have not replaced pc's even thought they also are cappable to run high end games on high end graphics.
 
Commercially speaking I also think that plugging in a tablet in some sort of docking station to be able to play high end games on your 60" tv screen is much "cooler" to do then plug in your laptop on that same tv. Imagining my docking station that is.  

A 17 W TDP in a tablet is a bad idea.  Trying to dissipate that much heat safely adds tremendously to the cost, which is why the device you link to starts at $1200 and goes up from there.  It's not going to be terribly portable as tablets, go, either.

-----

Another cost advantage of laptops over tablets is this:  what do you want to happen if a memory chip fails?  In a tablet or ultrabook, you have to replace the whole thing outright.  In a normal laptop, you can go buy a different memory module to replace the one that failed.  The same is true for storage, or if you later decide that you want to upgrade memory or storage.

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