Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

I made a thread about a week ago asking "if you are still playing, what are you doing?"

Answers were -

dailies

Spvp (battle grounds)

dungeons 

WvW

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5467199#5467199

Sounds fimiliar huh?

 

Very, its sounds like a typical themepark endgame, what else were you expecting?

Anyone who thinks a game shouldn't be considered innovative until they re-invent the MMORPG wheel, is in for a really long wait, i think.

Its the MOST innovative.. Perhaps the competition was even less so, no?  I havent played enough other MMOs to form an opinion unfortunetly.

Originally posted by NBlitz

That is until they grow bored of the game and drop completely off the map and we don't hear from them until they sheepishly start posting how they're not playing anymore "but but but it's a great game!" 

This comment makes no sense whatsoever. It is entirely possible to no longer play a game for a varied number of reasons but still think highly of the game in question.

Since you appear to be on some kind of a holy crusade against this game lately I suppose there's just no way any reply to this thread could change your mind even in the slightest, but believe it or not, there are people that don't share your opinion.

To begin with, I think you're mixing up innovation and revolution. Except for some bizarre indie games, no game is revolutionary. Revolution doesn't tend to come with any one game but with a series of smaller innovations across many years or decades. No matter what you do with a game, there will always be someone who'll say that this or that feature is similar to this or that game; in fact, it's even desired in MMOs more so than in any other genre, otherwise you totally alienate most of the playerbase on which the game so much depends.

Moreover, this holds true not only for games, but for any type of art: literature, music, movies or even painting or architecture. It's natural and ubiquitous. I would recommend watching the short series Everything Is a Remix which deals with this very subject.

Now, to get back to your question, I personally find Guild Wars 2 innovative but not revolutionary (unsurprisingly). In fact, it's the first MMO I have played that I wasn't bored with by the time I hit the level cap.

The most important innovation I see in the game is in the way of thinking and in the freedom. Once you complete the tutorial the game won't guide your hand ever again: at that point, some players find themselves lost and aren't immediately sure what to do; some stick to the stuff they're most familiar with - map completion and storyline - use that as a checklist and very soon they say they ran out of content and merge with the first category; while others just wonder off and do whatever they fancy doing. You don't even have to play PvE at all and can immediately jump to WvW or SPvP. You may not like it, but the fact that this happens at all should be a sufficient proof that it is indeed innovative.

Speaking of the lack of checklists to guide you through the entire game, the events. (You can't say you weren't expecting this...) Even if you say these are basically the same as public quests in Warhammer, it is certainly new to base your entire overworld persistent questing content on those. In my opinion, events do one thing really well and one thing really badly. To start with the positive side, once you find yourself in an event that you may or may not have seen in the area already, you can enjoy the truly cooperative nature they provide. Long gone is the frustration I used to have with kill-stealing and the likes. If an alchemist wants a certain amount of disgusting poisonous goo, why should he want them separately from everyone? In the events, you can just grab one glob and give it to him, at which point he simply wants one glob less. Obviously. However, on the other hand, the events do a horrible job at explaining themselves in terms of story. In order to really know what you're doing, you need to talk to a nearby scout to learn about the area in general, then be in the right place before the event begins, listen to the conversations, do the event, stay there or follow the NPCs and wait if the event has a follow-up (which they more often than not do have, but sometimes it takes way over a minute to show up on the UI). And even that might not be enough, since knowledge of in-game lore from other sources, including GW1, might be useful. Nevertheless, it's still different.

The combat is very subjective. I like how fluid, fast and flashy but still understandable it is and I love the emphasis on coordination with the combos. I even prefer it over TERA's combat, but that is probably a very controversial opinion. Still, it's certainly an improvement over the static combat previous MMOs usually had.

I could go on, but you have probably already stopped reading so I won't bother. But one last thing: where the game truly shines is in the little things, in the details, the things that are easily missed and overlooked. The conversations of NPCs, environmental (and artistic) design, (jumping) puzzles, dye system, subtle references, epitaphs on the tombstones, learnable writing systems, the sound of cartridge casing dropping on the floor depending on its material, and so on.

The game's far from perfect, but it's still by far the most fun I ever had in an MMO.

tl;dr: Innovation isn't revolution but small changes. The freedom, the lack of hand-holding, the events, the combat and all the other details are in my opinion innovations. Now go read it, it took me a long time to write.

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

If you're actually being serious, then i really hope you aren't a game designer.

Innovation is either introducing someting new, reintroducing something that hasn't been used in a while in a new way, or reintroducing a feature that is common, in a different way.

GW2 does all of these. In fact it's the only MMO in 2012 that has tried to actively tackle a lot of the problems with the current MMOs. Games like TERA & TSW have some interesting features, but both are essentially repackaged versions of the same game. GW2 changes how EXP & Leveling is handled, provides a wide variety of ways in order to progress through the game, gets rid of the 'shopping list' nearly every game has now, brings back a lot of features older MMOs used to have and newer ones lack, removes a lot of barriers to content that most games have in spades. etc. etc. etc.

Love the game, or hate it, anyone who knows about game design understands why GW2 would get picked.

I'm curious, what game in 2012 do you think is more innovative?

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

Nothing in GW2 is innovative, everything have been done before, but is a players choices, and a lot of people think it is. 

I do agree with the GW2 choice. I've never played anything like it. Is it the best game out there? Not for me at least, but I can't argue with the obvious new things the game is doing/trying (with various degrees of success). 

Originally posted by hikaru77

Nothing in GW2 is innovative, everything have been done before, but is a players choices, and a lot of people think it is. 

Since the OP won't respond I'll ask you then. If not GW2, then what game deserved it for being "most innovative"?

Originally posted by smh_alot
? Hasn't been a remarkable year? There was SWTOR(WoW in space), TSW(Wow in modern times), GW2(OG), TERA(Aion with better combat but less depth), Dayz(Meh), Planetside 2(Grindfest), WoW expansion(Talent Trees? No.), a little MMO/CORPG something for everyone. Sure, not every game will be to everyone's taste esp to those looking for a very specific type of MMO experience or who want to recreate the MMORPG experience they had when they first started playing MMO's, but compare it with the last 6 years or so and I think that 2012 has shown more MMO additions in a wider variety of gameplay features and settings than what's usual in the MMO field.

So this year we had Gw2. Pmuch the only worthy title up there, though i do own or play most of them... Gw2 is the only innovative one.

@ OP

Everything about Gw2 is Innovative... have you played it?

Originally posted by Maelzrael

So this year we had Gw2. Pmuch the only worthy title up there, though i do own or play most of them... Gw2 is the only innovative one.

 

@ OP

Everything about Gw2 is Innovative... have you played it?

Pretty much.

I'm guessing his post was directed at me which all he did was prove my remark. Think he missed the point that I was commenting on the innovation factor in relation to my comment.

Although I beg to differ that everything is innovative in the game. Compared to what else came out though the only real case one could make far as I'm concerned to a degree is DayZ far as being comparable in innovation.

Originally posted by taus01

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

 

They spent most for advertising on these sites. That is all, nothing else to it. That is also why they won best game on so many sites. It's a payed competition, ask some insiders how "ratings" are done. It is a well known fact that review sites are all payed with advertisements.

^^ Exactly this.

I find some sites are a *little* more honest in their critiques, but this site in particular is heavily influenced by $$$.  To the OP, the only thing that is eluding you is your lack of awareness of how the system works.  GW2 wasn't the Mesiah of gaming as so many fortold (as you know) and as fewer and fewer fanboys cling to.  Its just the same old same old with a pretty candy coating and a bitter, hollow core.

Its not about better, or innovation, or whatever metric they purport, rather its who stuffed who's wallet the most for better ratings. 

Originally posted by RedJorge

Please indulge me.

After the initial shock of GW2 getting GOTY second place against Pirates 101, I was really thinking about all the innovative features that must have contributed for GW2 Most Innovative award.

And besides Fractals, I could not find anything in GW2 that has not been already created before in other games.

Do you see any other innovation of GW2 that is eluding me?

No real competition, what did you expect?

Originally posted by Telondariel 

I find some sites are a *little* more honest in their critiques, but this site in particular is heavily influenced by $$$.  To the OP, the only thing that is eluding you is your lack of awareness of how the system works.  GW2 wasn't the Mesiah of gaming as so many fortold (as you know) and as fewer and fewer fanboys cling to.  Its just the same old same old with a pretty candy coating and a bitter, hollow core.

 

Its not about better, or innovation, or whatever metric they purport, rather its who stuffed who's wallet the most for better ratings. 

 

Right...sure...

Too bad apparently those behind Pirates 101 must have stuffed their pockets with more money so they won mmo of the year from here.

/floats back down to planet earth

Sometimes, especially in games, the result is more than the sum of its parts.

I know that complaining and picking apart game mechanics, claiming nothing is ever new anymore is all the rage, but seriously, it's getting old.

Cinematography hasn't changed very much the last 20 years either, yet people can still enjoy movies without bickering about them being; "all the same".

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by hikaru77

Nothing in GW2 is innovative, everything have been done before, but is a players choices, and a lot of people think it is. 

Since the OP won't respond I'll ask you then. If not GW2, then what game deserved it for being "most innovative"?

TSW is probably more innovative. DE have been done before by Rift and Warhammer PQs (DE are pretty much  improved Public quest from Warhammer), The WvWvW system is a copy and paste of DAOC and WAR 1.4 Update; Dodge system, done before by games like AoC as an example (it was more complex than GW2), even STO have a dodge system. No trinity, any console game where eveyone is just dps, like GW2. Again, is players choices, so a lot of people really believe that GW2 is new and innovative, but in the real world, is not.  

Originally posted by dlld
According to some peoples definition of innovative, I don't think anything truly can be innovative or atleast if it was it wouldn't fit inside the "MMMORPG" genre instead having to create a new one.

That sums it up well.

For some everything is simply a variation of Pong. Unless of course it is a game they're pining over.

Originally posted by Yamota

Keep in mind that innovative is not the same as inventing. Inventing means creating something new where as innovative means doing something new from something that already exists. So with that I think GW 2 deserved that because:

1. Dynamic Events is arguably doing WARs Public Quest and rifts in Rift in a new way.
2. Weapon swapping in combat was also done in a new sort of way.
3. The World vs World mechanic is yet another innovative way of doing RvR
4. Finally these vista mechanic is also pretty innovative.
5. Lack of trinity system. Again games like AC 1 did it long time ago but GW 2 did it in a new way.

Now does all these translate into a great MMORPG? No, I dont think so because neither of these brought longetivity in the game and quickly became repetetive. However I cannot deny that GW 2 was pretty innovative, for a ThemePark that is.

 

I do think TERA deserves an honorable mention in the way it does combat and BAMs and the Vanarch system but since the game is pretty boring overall I think alot of people overlook the things it did innovate on.

For Yamota,

Innovative

Adjective

 The only thing I can think that this game did as far as innovative was make it so that killing enemies everyone has their own loot and exp and the same with harvesting nodes. So no more fighting over nodes and creatures. However, that hurts the social aspect of a MMO cause you no longer really need to group for anything just run around and bash and hit everything.