Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by CalmOceans

I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

 

I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

More nonsense. This used to be the case 5+ years ago but now MMORPGs are much more mainstream.

I personally think this is bad as it has dumbed down the genre but it is what it is.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by CalmOceans

I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

 

I would hate to break your bubble but outside of the mmorpg community this genre doesn't really have a good name.

Anyone I ask about MMO, and the first terms that come up are: nerds, geeks, addicts above anything else lol.

More nonsense. This used to be the case 5+ years ago but now MMORPGs are much more mainstream.

I personally think this is bad as it has dumbed down the genre but it is what it is.

In some respects, both are correct ways of looking at it.

Expressions that still floats around, both in and outside "the community" - "no lifers" and "get a real life".  As in those who play these things heavily don't have real lives and live in fantasy worlds to compensate for it.

MMORPG was also *THE* focus for showing problems with computer games for quite some time and still is pointed at as a problem area. 

The old D&D to computers..  Back in the "EverCrack" days on up to modern times.  Hell, College students *STILL* spend times in these games doing "psychological and sociological" studies for their college papers, most still with negative slants to them.

You'll find their posts across a spectrum of game forums asking for feedback on questionnaires that often are heavily slanted in the direction of "have you stopped beating your wife yet? Yes - No".  It's funny to read some of them.

You will find those who are trying to recast them in a less negative light yet those papers tend to find publishing in "back pages" more than headline style.

As such, it does get a bit of a negative rap.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

Originally posted by Justin9820
Video games are in no way assosiated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.

I don't want to argue that since that would get into politics which isn't allowed on the forum.

That discussion is in no way political in nature. It would a psychology discussion. Anyway let poeple whining about voilent games. They have done so since the beginning of time and constantly jump on the newest media. 

Also in the US murder rates have been strangly the same since the 1960s and violent crimes have seen a reduction since the 1990s. I guess the "bad guys" are to busy playing violent games to actually commit an act of voilence. I enjoy the games and really do not care what others make of them. I

Originally posted by Vesavius
 

While I do not think a single game has ever 'made someone do it', I think to ignore the continual desensitisation of being exposed to violent (or any other extreme) material is foolish.

The human brain is like coding really... garbage in, garbage out. Most people eventually become a sum of their exposure.

I know most people will say 'wait, I'm a strong independent person, I am not affected by games!', but... people are not as immune to this as they like to think, and, well, yes they are. They just don't notice it because it has been happening all their lives.

I am not saying games make murderers, but I am saying being exposed to hyper violence on an extended basis numbs people to it, and that something like a game can act as a catalyst for someone who is predisposed to certain behaviours (it could even act as a normaliser, making the extreme behaviour more acceptable and therefore more likely).

To be honest, saying a twinkie made him do it (a joke example I know, but just running with it for now) is no more lazy then saying 'games and other hyper violent media have no effect at all on the humans playing them'.

It's a more complicated issue then most people choose to recognise to be honest.

That's an excellent point, and I certainly agree.  What I was trying to get at were the knee-jerk reactions that occur without much thought.  I suppose a dose of reflection is needed all around.

Originally posted by IAmMMO

Originally posted by Justin9820

Video games are in no way associated with violence. If someone is violent during or after playing video games it's because they are a violent person, not because they played a video game.

 

Edit: Spelling

 The very act of just sitting playing games for hours & days on end does have an affect on the brain and does make people agitated and aggressive. Deep down you know this yourself as a gamer on weeks you've over done it a little, any gamer that says otherwise is full of it, it's just some gamers can really go over broad and screw their mental health by over gaming. Preteens being exposed to violent games does condition the mind towards more aggressive behaviours. Especially with how FPS games are today are portraying real life violence and deaths.

 

 The army is now using virtual combat simulations with equal detail to violence to war and deaths as these games as part of the conditioning soldiers minds for combat. They know this has affect on their mind, yet you say it has no affect on young kids when their brain is at a stage of being easily influenced and conditioned? The COD craze putting fps gaming in the spot light of attention is affecting young minds in the USA and around the world in glorifying violence and gun culture.

Citation needed.

Total Buiscuit on the subject of video games being accused to be the cause of violence. It's a good video, tbh.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uwAo8lcAC4&feature=youtu.be

Anyway, regardless of OPs beliefs, games being accused of causing violence is hardly restricted to FPS. Mass Effect, for example. Star Craft. There's more that's been accused of being the reason for violent behaviour, but those will serve as examples for now.

Of course, it's total idiocy to believe they would, but hey.. people aren't that smart. If the news, even if it's Fox, tell them that it's the case - then it has to be true! Media, to the average Joe, is writing the truth. Why would they print stuff if it isn't correct? Media, however, is of course out to make money. But I digress - my apologies.

Back on topic! MMOs being associated with FPS or not is irrelevant - it's a game. Ergo, people think it's a cause of violence. It doesn't really matter what it's about. Time and time again World of Warcraft have been part of the focus of media when violence ensues (for example, the blasted mass murderer in Norway). They're already after your precious MMO's, OP. Don't fool yourself into thinking otherwise.

EDIT: At that, kids are of course not meant to play violent videogames. When this happen it's the fault of the parents, however. The ESRB ratings are there to prevent this from happening. If you cannot control your child, or you allow your child to play M-rated, or T-rated, games when they are still in their early teens or preteens, you're doing it wrong. 

Originally posted by zymurgeist
The desensitation argument is bunk. People, even children, can tell the difference between real violence and imaginary violence. The three stooges didn't lead to a outbreak of people poking each other's eyes out.  If anything video games reduce violence by providing an outlet for the agressive feelings common in adolescence. The thing overlooked is the murder rate is actually dropping slowly and has been for years. The rate of video games playing has increased. There is neither correlation nor causation. Now I agree we can probably do without the really over the top games like Postal but to blame any MMO is nonsense of the purest form.

Just for lulz...

And yet, we hold written books, non-interactive media, as inciteful of violence and corruptive & destructive attitudes.  This is well documented across decades of research.

Now take the book, go with "Avatars" in an interactive "play" setting and tell me how those "words on pages" showed one way, yet these "interactive games" don't?

As I pointed out to a ganker type who said "It's just a GAME!" - "How should we think of people?  Based upon what they must do for a living or what they choose to do for their fun? - You choose to cause as much misery as you possibly can 'for fun' - so what does this say about you as a person?"

Now when you take the "good guys" who stop corruption and violence and make it so they *CANNOT* stop it (and ride-off into the sunset), while making the "bad guys" able to live forever and cause misery...  You disuade those who would try and stop it -- they can't, while enticing more to the "bad guys" view of self-service and feeding off the misery of others.  "If you can't beat them, join them" - and this is going to improve social interactions in what way? ...

Not fun stuff to look at but it's there.

Originally posted by Durao

Originally posted by Vesavius
 

While I do not think a single game has ever 'made someone do it', I think to ignore the continual desensitisation of being exposed to violent (or any other extreme) material is foolish.

The human brain is like coding really... garbage in, garbage out. Most people eventually become a sum of their exposure.

I know most people will say 'wait, I'm a strong independent person, I am not affected by games!', but... people are not as immune to this as they like to think, and, well, yes they are. They just don't notice it because it has been happening all their lives.

I am not saying games make murderers, but I am saying being exposed to hyper violence on an extended basis numbs people to it, and that something like a game can act as a catalyst for someone who is predisposed to certain behaviours (it could even act as a normaliser, making the extreme behaviour more acceptable and therefore more likely).

To be honest, saying a twinkie made him do it (a joke example I know, but just running with it for now) is no more lazy then saying 'games and other hyper violent media have no effect at all on the humans playing them'.

It's a more complicated issue then most people choose to recognise to be honest.

That's an excellent point, and I certainly agree.  What I was trying to get at were the knee-jerk reactions that occur without much thought.  I suppose a dose of reflection is needed all around.

Yeah, gamers need to stop with the siege mentallity and take a realistic view at all sides of what's being said. I personally usually find the truth of any debate like this lies inbetween the more polarised of views.

The conversation isn't simply 'a game made me shoot him', or 'games have zero negative impact on the me'.

I also think that the people who are crying 'nonsense' and 'bullshit' to this subject, and seemingly unable to recognise the slightest of truth in that the media we expose ourselves too has any impact on us, the loudest are usually pretty desensitised themselves already and just don't recognise it. I guess that's part of what makes them so hard to reach.

now my 2 cents about games and violence..

     You bet damn right video games can have an effect on the mental state of people..  EVERYTHING on this Earth has that ability, raither it be playing sports, bullying, family abuse etc etc.. Any and ALL enviroments and communities can effect the people involved and around them..  I have seen drama caused from school sports to the work place, effect mental stability..  We all know that any abuse through childhood, verbal or physical can alter and effect how the mind works..  School bullying can effect people into depression and worse.. Video game exposure is NO DAMN DIFFERENT..  To deny the effect the cyber world can have is just lying to yourself and others..  Rather it be Facebook games, to online chatrooms, peoples minds and lifestyles can be altered for the better or worse..

     I personally believe that today's FPS infactuation is more detramental to society then a benefit..  But that is just my opinion from my personal observations..  FPS games like Call of Duty I believe do not "cause" events, No more then smoking "causes" cancer.. BUT I do believe there is a relationship between the two..  Same can be said about drinking and liver problems.. I do believe there is a relationship  between violence and video games, but how and when..  OH.. btw.. This applies to Hollywood movies as well..  Imagine how many BILLIONS are made from violent entertainment, and you think many will want an unbiased report on that?   I'm still trying to understand how VIOLENCE = entertainment?  Really?   Think about it..

Originally posted by CalmOceans

MMORPG is one of the few genres that never gets named when people talk about violent video games.

Even though there is a lot of sword fighting and magic and killing, it is all set in a fantasy setting that has no equal in real-life. The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.

FPS used to be more fantasy like, now they are portrayals of real-life with real guns with real names of guns with realisic killings, I was shocked at last year's E3, how much violence was glorified as if it is some good thing. Many people after E3 were really upset at how gaming companies went about promoting their products.

I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

 

Sorry I don't see the difference in killing another player ingame in a MMORPG then I would in a FPS. FPS in the way we speak about it in this topic is meant to be a First Person Shooter. I have truly no idea what type of FPS you use to play that was more fantasy like.

Wolfenstein, Doom are just 2 of the very first type of FPS games, they sure where voilent. Already at that time I imagined a computer age where all that almost looked reall. We are getting there. Does this mean I accept voilence. In games yes, in real life I truly dislike voilence.

Maybe you looking to deep into this whole subject, perhaps some news here or there shocked you where games seemed to influence crimes people committed.

In a way I could say I am atracted to voilence but only if it's in a game/movie/tv type of way. I am truly against all forms of voilence in real life!!!

And....you think MMORPG's could not have bad influence on people already?? 10 Most Bizarre Gaming Incidents

If people do bad things it's because of them, perhaps something triggered them, but those things have always been a part of that person.

Luckely most of use understand the difference between game-voilence and real life.

Example I have never been in war myself, respect those who have. But in a way when for example the first time playing Cod 3 I truly felt a certain rush of how it must have been like in a war. I just looked so realistic that it completely drew me in. Immersion is what I seek out of my playing experiance

Originally posted by CalmOceans

MMORPG is one of the few genres that never gets named when people talk about violent video games.

Even though there is a lot of sword fighting and magic and killing, it is all set in a fantasy setting that has no equal in real-life. The games are social and don't glorify violence, there is no blood or gore or anything of the sorts in most MMO.

FPS used to be more fantasy like, now they are portrayals of real-life with real guns with real names of guns with realisic killings, I was shocked at last year's E3, how much violence was glorified as if it is some good thing. Many people after E3 were really upset at how gaming companies went about promoting their products.

I would really hate if MMO started to get a bad repuation because people would associate MMOFPS with MMORPG, they are different games and I hope they are not compared, I feel uncomfortable just looking at some trailers of current FPS games, I have never felt that looking at MMORPG games.

 

 I agree with you. I would also add that in my experience, FPS games attract a different crowd than MMORPGs. Or at least they used to. Now the lines are getting blurred and a lot of MMOs are attempting to cater to them.

I've never been interested in the 5 minute kill-fests in FPS. I guess it's the same reason I intensely dislike scenario PVP with their FPS-style scoreboards. Give me large scale open world continuous PVP like in DAoC or GW2 any day of the week over that esport garbage.

I also could care less if an MMO has combat like a martial arts arcade game. As a matter of fact if an MMO features that in their marketting, I usually stay away.

But yeah I feel the same way about modern soldier FPS as I do about the GTA franchise...they're sort of morally dodgy. I guess pimps and mercs would like thme though :P

I was playing hello kitty online.

And I was hitting on all this fluffy animal.  That is way too violence...  Eventhough you can't actually kill anything in that game only daze thing, but still... hitting on animal! Violence!

What is with mmorpg all about killing stuff.  And fighting each other?