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LFGame  » Looking for MMO that's not pay-to-win

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32 posts found
  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/23/12 8:43:59 AM#21

Hmm i would probably go with Rift aswell for this. It seems the most "oldschool" of the major sub based games out there currently. WoW technically qualifies aswell, but imho that train has left the station long ago i wouldn't recommend that game to players anymore.

TSW im not so sure of, it just went B2P and there is some stuff in the store that smells of P2W to me. Like weapons and items that are not just cosmetic, it certainly looks like the beginnings of P2W to me.

 

Calling EvE P2W is a bit harsh. Buying accounts/gold etc is always just a EULA violation away in any game. And your not buying advantages from CCP but from other players, thus it isn't affecting the games developement/direction which is imho one of the main complaints about P2W games(i.e. slowly increasing difficulty etc so that advantages from the store get mandatory).

  VendettaDFA

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/12
Posts: 74

12/23/12 8:49:17 AM#22
Aion is a good option to try out. Free to play and all the content is available to play as well. No having to purchase a dungeon run or expansion. It's still updated. The items in the cash shop are pretty much cosmetic. Excellent character creation section as well. If ya don't care for it you are out nothing.
  Ice-Queen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

12/23/12 8:51:17 AM#23

I would say World of Warcraft,

 

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  ender67

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 17

12/23/12 8:56:45 AM#24
Originally posted by gessekai332

any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

^^^^

Off-topic:

This is exactly the reason why I consider dev's should inspire more from MOBA's when developing their games. MMORPG's should be more of "how I play it" and less of "what gear/level I have". I understand very well that RPG means progression, but DotA and all the games made after this mode, proved that you can have progression without: end game content, grind and 100 useless skills. 

And a lot of gamers will say: and where is the purpose / finality in a game where you play the same map, with the same heroes, with only 4 skills, over and over again. Paradoxically less is more. It's harder to learn how to play a MobA then a MMORPG. That the true progression: what I learned and what I know.

And interesting is the fact that MobA's have a bigger fan base then MMORPG's. In DotA 2 at 21:00 - 22:00 UTC+2 usualy are 200.000 concurent users playing. I presume that LoL and DotA have at least the same number of users. 

 

On-topic:

If you want a f2p that is not p2w you could try DotA 2. It has an awful community and a high learning curbe but I think that it's funny. If you need a beta-key for it, PM me.

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/23/12 9:02:19 AM#25
Originally posted by ender67
Originally posted by gessekai332

any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

^^^^

Off-topic:

This is exactly the reason why I consider dev's should inspire more from MOBA's when developing their games. MMORPG's should be more of "how I play it" and less of "what gear/level I have". I understand very well that RPG means progression, but DotA and all the games made after this mode, proved that you can have progression without: end game content, grind and 100 useless skills. 

And a lot of gamers will say: and where is the purpose / finality in a game where you play the same map, with the same heroes, with only 4 skills, over and over again. Paradoxically less is more. It's harder to learn how to play a MobA then a MMORPG. That the true progression: what I learned and what I know.

And interesting is the fact that MobA's have a bigger fan base then MMORPG's. In DotA 2 at 21:00 - 22:00 UTC+2 usualy are 200.000 concurent users playing. I presume that LoL and DotA have at least the same number of users. 

 

On-topic:

If you want a f2p that is not p2w you could try DotA 2. It has an awful community and a high learning curbe but I think that it's funny. If you need a beta-key for it, PM me.

Moba's already exist, whats the point of making MMOs be like them? Thats like making action movies to be more like romance movies, in the end you just piss off both audiences.

Also i fail to see how having less variety could be a improvement, we need more different games, not more similar games.

  ender67

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 17

12/23/12 9:25:08 AM#26

I'm not saying that the dev's should copy-paste MobA's. I'm saying that this genre has a lot of things that could be implemented in MMORPG's.

ArenaNet tried to implement some things from MobA's with Guild Wars 2. For example in DotA you have just 1 hero from 105  that can taunt. The holy trinty doesn't exist in Moba's. You have at least 5 or six different roles. 

I simply say that I want this things in MMORPG's. I cannot understand users that are crying after the holy trinity. Why should we have 3 roles to fufill: DPS, Tanker and Healer when we could have 10 or 15? Why should be one shot by another player just because he plays 10 hours per day and I'm playing 10 hours per week? 

If you will ever play a MobA you will see that it has a greater complexity then the PVP of a MMORPG.

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6486

"Only cunts name their swords"

12/23/12 10:19:10 AM#27
Originally posted by ender67

I'm not saying that the dev's should copy-paste MobA's. I'm saying that this genre has a lot of things that could be implemented in MMORPG's.

ArenaNet tried to implement some things from MobA's with Guild Wars 2. For example in DotA you have just 1 hero from 105  that can taunt. The holy trinty doesn't exist in Moba's. You have at least 5 or six different roles. 

I simply say that I want this things in MMORPG's. I cannot understand users that are crying after the holy trinity. Why should we have 3 roles to fufill: DPS, Tanker and Healer when we could have 10 or 15? Why should be one shot by another player just because he plays 10 hours per day and I'm playing 10 hours per week? 

If you will ever play a MobA you will see that it has a greater complexity then the PVP of a MMORPG.

PvP in MMORPG can have the complexity which you can never see in a MOBA. Reason is that the world is persistant in an MMORPG where as in a MOBA it is not. So you can have guild politics and continual warfare over resources which you can never have in a MOBA.

Altough I do agree that short lived, tactical PvP in a MOBA is superior to that of an MMORPG.

  Phaserlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 677

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. -Lao Tzu

12/23/12 10:58:36 AM#28
Originally posted by ender67

I'm not saying that the dev's should copy-paste MobA's. I'm saying that this genre has a lot of things that could be implemented in MMORPG's.

ArenaNet tried to implement some things from MobA's with Guild Wars 2. For example in DotA you have just 1 hero from 105  that can taunt. The holy trinty doesn't exist in Moba's. You have at least 5 or six different roles. 

I simply say that I want this things in MMORPG's. I cannot understand users that are crying after the holy trinity. Why should we have 3 roles to fufill: DPS, Tanker and Healer when we could have 10 or 15? Why should be one shot by another player just because he plays 10 hours per day and I'm playing 10 hours per week? 

If you will ever play a MobA you will see that it has a greater complexity then the PVP of a MMORPG.

I don't think that's a fair generalization to make.  I have played my share of Dota, and while I agree that the quick changes and tactical combat make for interesting PvP, there really is no reason this can't exist in an MMORPG.  I also appreciate MMORPGs for the reason Yamota mentions; they involve persistent worlds.  There is no way to "win" an MMORPG, at least not to the degree that one wins a "match" in Dota or LoL.  In MMORPGs you have resource control, exploration, player-generated content etc.  It's an added layer of complexity.  The one thing MOBAs may have going for them are the quick action.  It's like watching a basketball game.  The MMORPG I play is more like a continuous game of Risk (or "Go", if you prefer).

The Gear vs Player Skill is a debate that I've seen kicked around this site for years now.  In the MMO I play, player skill is a far greater factor than gear due to the "twitch" mechanics in Combat.  I'm not talking about button presses; I mean things like spatial memory and awareness, OODA loops, and formations.  The tactical PvP is there; simplicity overlying great complexity.

In a station conquest, one could easily play one out of 10 to 15 roles.  You could be a defensive fighter, on turret repairs, interdicting enemy supply lines, a resupplier, a bomber, a bomber escort... each of these could be further broken down into heavy / light, close combat / ranged etc.  Then beneath it all is the fundamental understanding of the physics and using this to one's advantage.  Multifaceted would be a word to consider.

Saying one entire genre has greater complexity in PvP than one other entire genre is a gross generalization and ignores many finer aspects inherent to each particular game.  I think games in which gear plays a greater role than player skill have a greater propensity to fall prey to the "pay-to-win" syndrome than games in which player skill is more important (Galaga, for example), and even then it's not a granted necessity; it depends on the business model.  The bottom line is that if a game does not sell virtual goods for real cash, it cannot by definition be pay-to-win.  Vendetta Online is one of the few MMORPGs that has so far followed this approach absolutely, and for a great length of time.

"To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
Check it out on Steam

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1310

12/23/12 11:00:17 AM#29
Originally posted by ender67

I'm not saying that the dev's should copy-paste MobA's. I'm saying that this genre has a lot of things that could be implemented in MMORPG's.

ArenaNet tried to implement some things from MobA's with Guild Wars 2. For example in DotA you have just 1 hero from 105  that can taunt. The holy trinty doesn't exist in Moba's. You have at least 5 or six different roles. 

I simply say that I want this things in MMORPG's. I cannot understand users that are crying after the holy trinity. Why should we have 3 roles to fufill: DPS, Tanker and Healer when we could have 10 or 15? Why should be one shot by another player just because he plays 10 hours per day and I'm playing 10 hours per week? 

If you will ever play a MobA you will see that it has a greater complexity then the PVP of a MMORPG.

But some people like the holy trinity, i for one do. Now i have no problem with adding roles, or have your role decided by a talent tree or something, but i dislike the system GW2 used where everyone is a bit of everything.

Some of us have grown up with D&D or other games, we want that warrior + priest + mage/rogue/archer theme because its what we like. Its nice that there are games like that for people like me, and games like GW2 for people like you. But taste differs, and whats fun to you may not be fun to me. Complexity doesn't even come into it, some people like baseball some like football and some people even watch soccer. You won't improve soccer by adding football rules to it, its different games for different folks.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/23/12 11:08:29 AM#30
Get Secret World, no P2W whatsoever. No gambling boxes, no treasure chest keys either.

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Prankster

Novice Member

Joined: 2/26/04
Posts: 165

People Suck Avoid Them Whenever Possible

12/23/12 11:23:14 AM#31

thinktank001 says:

"Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W."

Followed by:

"but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those."  

Classic.

 

GW2 still not pay to win. You can buy experience buffs, however they are not at all necessary and only serve to get exp points and not at all help you complete objectives or gain items that could be construed as "P2W".

Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck

  Josh007CL

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 38

12/23/12 12:40:26 PM#32

Most games that have a market/cash shop are not pay to win. They just have nice things in there to squeeze every bit of money out they can. Sadly this affects the game itself imo. I played EQ2 for years where they created content for those who PLAY the game. Now they develop most content for you to purchase.

 

So now it goes like this. Go do a hard dungeon here's some gear but it looks like crap, so why don't you purchase some nice "appearance gear" to make it shiny and sparkly for $10+. And that ugly old mount you have, why not pay $15-$30 for a nice shiny one. I remember when you actually worked for good stuff, you got good stuff. Games now are starting to piss me off and this needs to change for the furture of gaming.

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