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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Why do people think SWTOR is good story telling?

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  tixylix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1112

 
OP  12/20/12 6:17:32 PM#1

As a fan of the original trilogy I just hate what Star Wars has become and like everyone I've watched those Redlettermedia reviews of the prequels and agreed with them almost 100%. I hate how not only does this game live up to the Star Wars cliches but also the Bioware ones. I hate how ever cutscene is so static in typical Bioware fashion but also the prequels. I really do not get why every cutscence, if you can call them that always involves shot reverse shot, two static characters talking to each other and only moving their hands or swaying side to side. If you watch a GTA 4 cutscene it's all animted, there is a lot of motion and movement, even if it is based in one room. Then you watch anything from Bioware and it is always the same thing.

I hate how now Star Wars is Black/Red = Sith and Brown/Green/Blue is Jedi.... when are these conventions followed in real life? Evil people can look like you or me, they don't wear uniform because they kill people on a whim. I can forgive the original trilogy for being the first and for trying to set an iconic look, however now they've become cliches. 

I hate how every class is based on some Star Wars character, like why couldn't they come up with anything of their own. Those CGI trailers were some of the worst things I've ever seen, they aren't Star Wars, they're about throwing as much crap on screen at once. Every character that was in them says some line another character from the films has said and is based 100% on them. Like why couldn't Bioware come up with something of their own? I'd much prefer they split a single event over the 3 or 4 CGI trailers they made. You can always remember each iconic moment in the original Trilogy, even if it seemed like not a lot was going on, it was the chaarcters that mattered and made people fall in love with the movies. Yet can you remember anything from the prequels? It's all one generic poorly written and directed mess where I cannot care about anyone. 

Why has this whole notion of Jedi not being able to have emotions come from and this whole Jedi school bullshit come from? It was kool when it was something magical and unpredictable in the original Trilogy, yet in all the new stuff it's established you must be some emotionless robot and Jedi might as well be manufactured. No wonder why people always choose to be on the side of the Sith in this game, they're the ones that show emotion in all of the writing, in the Jedi stuff it's all boring like being in a hospital or something.

Bioware have done nothing but create a Prequel Star Wars, just a load of cliche bullshit that just isn't fun to play through. I do not care about any characters, the story or anything, I hate how they've turned everything into cliches. Like when watching the redlettermedia review he says "lightning coming out of your hands is when you've achieved level 12 Sith Status"...... it's so true. No Jedi or Sith in this game have their own personality, it's abilities you must learn and everyone must be the same. At least in SWG you could mix and match and be what you wanted to be. You could be a Jedi who just did crafting if you wanted lol....

I don't think what Bioware has done is good at all, from the poor gameplay aside, their story telling is crap, it has always been crap and seems to only be getting worse. I'll never understand why their boring wooden characters that never animate in cutscences are so loved. I mean I cannot tell you a single thing about Shepard or any of the characters in Mass Effect, i couldn't care about any of them. Every time you spoke to someone it felt like they were tyring to always make it epic and over the top. I mean I had 3 lines of dialogue and suddenly my character could be in love with another, saying the most cheesy lines ever and having the worst smile animation. I just hate how everything has to be so epic and over the top like every mission involves saving someones life or something. 

 

For me Bioware are not good game makers or story tellers and all they did with Star Wars is create more bullshit to go with the rest that. 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/20/12 6:20:44 PM#2

Light saber colors come from the extended universe. Jedi's controlling their emotions comes from the movies and the extended universe.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  observer

Elite Member

Joined: 2/17/05
Posts: 2235

First came pride, then envy.

12/20/12 6:20:54 PM#3

Some would argue the stories are better in Swtor than in the prequel movies. ;)

The stories aren't that bad in swtor either, if you compare them to MMOs.  The way they are presented is a good thing.  It's one of the things i miss about that game.

  User Deleted
12/20/12 6:26:07 PM#4

SWtOR screwed a lot of things up, but the story-telling is pretty great for an MMO.  It's very cinematic (assuming you sit back and watch things and not just spacebar through it), and fairly creative.  I think the whole light-side dark-side conversations are weak, but aside from that, it's fun.

  Terranah

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3616

12/20/12 6:27:52 PM#5

If I want stories, I pick up a book and read.  If I'm too lazy to do that, I'll watch tv.  If I want to play a game for story, I'll pick up an rpg.  When I play an mmo though, it's usually not for story but community.

 

A lot of the greatest Star Wars stories can not be told because it's the wrong time period.

  Sevenstar61

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1594

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

12/20/12 6:28:41 PM#6

My most favorite SW story was Drew Karpyshyn's Bane and the stories about Old Republic are set pre-Bane, which makes it really interesting for me. I love most of the stories in SWTOR, have my most favorite (Imperial Agent and ith Warrior) and the least favorite (Jedi Consular and Smuggler - though some smuggler liners make me laugh).

I am actually not so excited about the movies storyline. I was sort of disappointed that Disney decided to make Episode VII on Yavan-4 with Luke building Jedi Academy.

I would love to see movie about Darth Bane or darn about Revan. Revan is my favorite book SW book too.


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  Camaro68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 52

12/20/12 7:27:15 PM#7

I agree on the republic stories.  The good guy story doesn't carry much zing when they're part of an empire themselves.  The jedi stories especially are just a little too goodie goodie.

 

Now the Empire storylines, that's where SWTOR shines.  Because the movies only gave the bad guys a quarter of the screen time it's really interesting to play through a sith storyline.  Or see the internal conflicts between the sith and the average joe Imperials in the Agent storyline.

Plus in the sith inquisitor storyline your dark side decisions usually result in lightning shooting out of your fingertips.  You will fry any fool who gets in your way.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

12/20/12 7:34:31 PM#8

(Sidenote: I've really only experienced the Republic stories...and not all of them.

But you have to take everything into perspective.  The stories (at least the Jedi Knight) seemed to provide an overall arch for the character.  It also brought a personal touch to the whole thing.  Now this isn't great if you compare to modern cinema or even television, but compared to the crop of MMO stories we had been getting before, it was like a breath of fresh air.

I've always struggled to stay interested in the story in MMOs.  I really make an effort because I want to get the most out of the game but so many of the stories and quests in other ones are so drab and boring I am just really forcing myself in the end.  I recall playing WAR and I just couldn't for the life of me find any interest at all in the quest lore.....eventually, I just got to the point that I skipped the narrative and went straight to the objectives.

A lot of the side missions with TOR, the little dialogue becomes a bit unnecessary and annoying at times.  But the class story is something I did appreciate.  In hindsight, they could have left some of that side quest dialogue junk by the wayside.)

You also have to remember, even though EPIV is regarded by many of us to be a great story, it's still very cliche.   Small time nobody finds out he is the ruler's son and saves the kingdom and the princess from this evil. Comeon, this isn't exactly original stuff here.  Star Wars was never really regarded as great cinema for its intricate or original plot...it was more because of the new cinema technology that gave life to this traditional story.  As a result, it became a cultural phenomenum.

But you need to remember, Star Wars was also a children's story.  It was never something that was aimed at adults. 

 

TLDR: It's decent writing for an MMO, but it isn't Shakespeare by any means.

If you want something with a more sophisticated story in an MMO, I'd suggest TSW.  It

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2214

12/20/12 7:38:45 PM#9
Originally posted by Terranah

If I want stories, I pick up a book and read.  If I'm too lazy to do that, I'll watch tv.  If I want to play a game for story, I'll pick up an rpg.  When I play an mmo though, it's usually not for story but community.

 

A lot of the greatest Star Wars stories can not be told because it's the wrong time period.

I see this argument a lot and I agree to a point...but what came first with the MMORPG, the massive or the rpg?  I think you can have both and thats what Bioware tried to do. 

If I want something with lotsa people, action, and little story, I'll go for something like APB or Guild Wars 2...but I do like story in any form of RPG.   Story allows you to become invested in the journey outside of the progression mechanics.

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  User Deleted
12/20/12 7:41:45 PM#10
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Terranah

If I want stories, I pick up a book and read.  If I'm too lazy to do that, I'll watch tv.  If I want to play a game for story, I'll pick up an rpg.  When I play an mmo though, it's usually not for story but community.

 

A lot of the greatest Star Wars stories can not be told because it's the wrong time period.

I see this argument a lot and I agree to a point...but what came first with the MMORPG, the massive or the rpg?  I think you can have both and thats what Bioware tried to do. 

If I want something with lotsa people, action, and little story, I'll go for something like APB or Guild Wars 2...but I do like story in any form of RPG.   Story allows you to become invested in the journey outside of the progression mechanics.

You bring up a great point.  People seem to forget that MMORPG's have their roots in table top role playing games, like Dungeons and Dragons, where the whole point was to try and replicate the experience of *telling a story* with a bunch of friends.

  Rednecksith

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1272

Bite my fiery metal ass!

12/20/12 7:55:08 PM#11

The CGI trailers were some of the best Star Wars action ever created. I've got them all on my hard drive, and still watch them occasionally. They're more 'Star Wars' than all the prequels combined, and then some.

As for the story telling, I can't really say anything about classes other than the Imperial Agent. I will say that the agen'ts story was absolutely fantastic, and was once of the major things which kept me hooked on the game for as long as I was. It was well written, well executed, and actually made me care about / dislike the characters involved. My only real complaint about it is that it ended, and Bioware has stupidly decided not to continue it as of yet.

Word of advice: If you make an MMO based on story, you need to keep the story going. Otherwise people will lose interest and leave. Like myself and many, many others did.

  Acidon

Elite Member

Joined: 9/09/05
Posts: 720

Permafried

12/20/12 8:12:21 PM#12
Originally posted by tixylix

 I really do not get why every cutscence, if you can call them that always involves shot reverse shot, two static characters talking to each other and only moving their hands or swaying side to side. If you watch a GTA 4 cutscene it's all animted, there is a lot of motion and movement, even if it is based in one room. Then you watch anything from Bioware and it is always the same thing.

<snip>

 

I certainly agree here.  I played TSW before I tried SWTOR.   If a game nailed it on doing cutscenes in a MMO, TSW did.  After playing that and then trying SWTOR, which was hailed for its story and cutscenes, I was really disappointed.  

I know I keep comparing them, but they are two of the biggest games to include cutscenes..  In TSW, the character talking to you would walk around, use body language to emphasize while they speak, etc.  It looks and sounds real.  Obviously there's a bit of a disconnect when your own character just stands there mute, but they even had some fun with that in the story.  In contrast, SWTOR seemed second-rate to me.  

Don't get me wrong, I had fun during my trial of sweater..  But for all the resources they put into that portion of the game, I think they could have done a better job.

 

I can't really comment on the rest.  I'm not a huge Star Wars fan.  I've seen the trilogy, like most people, but I was fairly young and don't remember much.  In addition, I haven't seen the new movies, the prequels I guess.  I would imagine it would be difficult to please that large of a fanbase though.   Now I want to watch the originals and then new ones.. damnit.

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  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

12/21/12 10:35:41 AM#13

It's not that SWTOR stories were "great" or not, but it was supposed to be the driving force in this game that set it apart from other MMOs. I think everyone agrees that SWTOR focuses more on the story aspect than any other game.  What we do know is that because of the story-telling voiceovers, this was one of the most expensive MMO games ever developed. So, you would hope that it was worth it.  Clearly by going F2P within the first year proves it wasn't worth it.

I think going forward, themepark MMOs are going to be designed with F2P + box purchase price in mind as a way of making money.  The only kind of MMO games that are going to charge subscriptions are sandbox MMOs.  Just my $0.02.

  tixylix

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 1112

 
OP  12/21/12 2:33:38 PM#14

The thing is there is good story telling out there in games, it isn't like games are still stuck in the mindset of the lost in translation Japanese way of telling a story that comes off so cheesy and just horrible to us in the west. 

Portal 2 is a prime example of a game with good story telling, it is amazingly well written and funny and it keeps you in the game. Valve love creating set pieces that still give you control of your character and people are much more willing to follow a story when they're still playing. These are games and the end of the day I know far more people who skip every cutscene because they want to play, than people who actually sit there and watch them. 

Also Valve animate a sphere of Wheatley and any robot in that game with more emotion than the whole cast of anything Bioware has ever created. Just watch the cardboard like animation of Biowares characters, these are even in cutscenes and not set pieces! I mean Shepard in Mass Effect has the worst smile ever and when he tries to give off any emotion, you don't see it, he is always standing still and looks like he is trying to fight his own face in how it animates lol. 

I would much rather Valve create a Star Wars game and see what story they create. One thing I could bet on is it wouldn't be some cliche and feel like it has been told a 1000 times before like what Bioware do. Valve would find a creative way to tell a new story and give you a new experience, they have writers who are actually good. There are other developers out there too like the people who wrote the old Lucas Arts adventure games and even the people who wrote COD4, I know that sounds funny but people always remember things they did in that game like kill you off with a Nuke and have you crawling and trying to survive. 

 

Bioware aren't all to blame though, Lucas Arts probably told them this is how it had to be in terms of every Jedi must use Light Sabers and what not. Even though in the original trilogy The Emperor seemed to think Lightsabers were pathetic and beneath him and called them a Jedi weapon, that still made sense as Darth Vader fell from being a Jedi to a Sith. However in the Prequels it's discovered that everyone starts off as a Jedi it seems and then falls to the Dark side and how even The Emperor uses a Lightsaber in it.......

Eurgh I hate you Lucas.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/21/12 3:38:00 PM#15
Originally posted by tixylix

 I really do not get why every cutscence, if you can call them that always involves shot reverse shot, two static characters talking to each other and only moving their hands or swaying side to side.

couldn´t agree more.

Always thought I am the only one noticing how badly directed and lame those cutscenes are, as if they had hired someone who failed the first semester of film school.

At least SWTOR cutscenes are still lightyears better than the laughable cutscenes GW2 is offering.

Well, another category in which Secret World blows the competion out of the water.

 

 

 

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


.
The Return of ELITE !

  Sevenstar61

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1594

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

12/21/12 3:47:15 PM#16
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by tixylix

 I really do not get why every cutscence, if you can call them that always involves shot reverse shot, two static characters talking to each other and only moving their hands or swaying side to side.

couldn´t agree more.

Always thought I am the only one noticing how badly directed and lame those cutscenes are, as if they had hired someone who failed the first semester of film school.

At least SWTOR cutscenes are still lightyears better than the laughable cutscenes GW2 is offering.

Well, another category in which Secret World blows the competion out of the water.

 

 

 I bought TSW but can't make myself to play it. The starting cutscenes are not that great in my opinion and I don't like that my character is mute. I guess it's a matter of style.

And if TSW was so great, why it does struggle so much to stay afloat, TSW has forced Xfire on log in  (which surprised me)  and even that can't make the difference in numbers. I will play it in small doses as I love storyline MMOS but it does not make me as excited as when I play SWTOR. In fact it makes me really depressed and I don't like it LOL. I don't play MMOs to get depression LOL. I play it to have fun.


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  ZombieKen

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

Zombie - Dead but still moving.

12/21/12 4:02:42 PM#17

As far as I played, I felt the storyline was well done but with excessively slow pacing.

 

I have mixed feelings on the dialog options.  They seemed to be broken down into three choices: what you're supposed to say, what you're not supposed to say, and something sort of in the middle.  I didn't want to gimp my character so regardless of how I wanted to play, I responded with what I was supposed to say.

 

MSOTSG with PPE : Massively Single-player Online Task-driven Storyline Game with Purchasable Performance Enhancements *grin*

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3564

12/21/12 4:03:30 PM#18

If SWTOR is bad at story telling, most games with the exception of 2-3 are all awful at story telling.

SWTOR is on par with 'The Walking Dead' and 'To the Moon' in terms of quality.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Vannor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2997

12/21/12 4:08:16 PM#19
In any game, having a purpose is more important than having a story. If someone can nail both those things in an MMO though we will experience something truely great. It's yet to be seen though.
  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 460

12/21/12 4:08:44 PM#20

Having never played any Bioware games previous to SWTOR, all I kept hearing about leading up to the game's launch was how awesome the story would be because Bioware was developing it.

While the story aspect is better then most other MMOs, I think I had the bar set higher then what the game delivered. The story did not branch or offer much in the way of decision-making that actually mattered. In the end, I was a spectator to my own character's story.

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