Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

Apologies. But I can not approve of the way you are approaching making a game. There are many flaws in it that makes it seem only like a dream that you're forcing to become true (Take a look at the youtube video posted, it really says wonders.)

 

• There is no credibility or background of you in the video game industry.
• I have tons of ideas in my head for what I believe would make my perfect MMO, that doesn't mean it will be yours or anyone elses. It will also not mean that I will actively search for strangers on a forum to help me.
• To make an MMO would be considered the highest of the high for games considering MMO development costs, upkeep, and such. Whereas small browser games can be considered the lowest of the low, MMOs require constant bug watch, server upkeep, player management, constant updates, or you'll have a wreck.
• Just being an "overseer" isn't going to do anything for your team (Infact, it could do them worse if you underestimate or overestimate their career options, jobs, pay, or whatnot.) Most teams have leaders who are well versed in the aspects of what they are creating. Even being an entrepreneur would help your credibility.
• Where will all the funding come from? You can not expect kickstarter to provide all of your funding.
• Why would people choose your sci-fi MMO over others that could be more polished in the future, such as a released planetside 2 with updates?
• It also seems like you're just aiming for what "the players want." Sadly, even this generation's MMO's know that it's nearly impossible due to cost, time restraints, development hell, bugs, cheaters and a perfect way to add it into the game to appeal to all players (Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and Vorthos). If a game would be able to simply appeal to all things the players want in a box thats attractive why hasn't it been made yet?
• Normally, Original features in MMOs are very balance-breaking. It can be fun to the user, but not for the person it's being used on (Extra Credits)
• If the development of the game is going to take so long, do you believe that you'll actually have dedicated programmers or artists who will stick with you the entire way? Will your leaving programmers be skilled enough to write simple codes for new people to understand? Will the modelers still have a base plan for what they were doing or will you have to scrap it and start again? (Duke Nukem Forever)
• You require a publisher, who may want to get their "hands" on the game so they see it fit for publishing.
• What kind of talented artists are you looking for? Y'know, my girlfriend does some pretty nice deformed art afterall.
• Where will the main HQ or area of the game take place, a cloud server? Some area?
• What language will the game engine be in? Are you going to acquire the license for an engine or create one with programmers?
• What about modeling programs or graphic art programs. Would you encourage an GNU-style GGB (GNU Compiler, GIMP, and Blender unless someone else has other programs), VSPS3D (Visual Studio, Photoshop, and 3DS Max) or some other combo? Of course this is all optional as anyone can be fluent with anything for use as long as they are portable to other software.
• How will the music be orchestrated? Who will be the main composer also?
• How about quality assurance that isn't open betas, since they usually lead to people attempting to find ways to cheat.
• How will you benefit all your employees? If they won't get paid in your job as well as in others why would they come to you? What if they are poor/in debt?

Honestly I can keep on going. Some of these points can be countered simply and I may have not put much thought into some, but others will remain. If you truely wish to create such a great MMO, you're best off learning how to lead productively first. Take a class or gain some knowledge in entrepreneurship so you may be more knowledgeable in organizing a business. If you want to take it another notch, learn at least the basics of programming, music theory, the type of art you wish for your game, and game design.

This person is damn near right now what is needed in this field, and there is more, but thats a good start..

@op

write your ideas in a book, with all you want, story, thoughts, everything! 

try to get a game company or indie company to do it with you as a consultant

otherwise you probably make a big mistake. being a former marine doesnt make you successful in everything else too.

btw, i guess most of us have such a perfect game in mind... sell yours or give yours to an indie company

Originally posted by Oracle_Fefe

Apologies. But I can not approve of the way you are approaching making a game. There are many flaws in it that makes it seem only like a dream that you're forcing to become true (Take a look at the youtube video posted, it really says wonders.)

 

• There is no credibility or background of you in the video game industry.
• I have tons of ideas in my head for what I believe would make my perfect MMO, that doesn't mean it will be yours or anyone elses. It will also not mean that I will actively search for strangers on a forum to help me.
• To make an MMO would be considered the highest of the high for games considering MMO development costs, upkeep, and such. Whereas small browser games can be considered the lowest of the low, MMOs require constant bug watch, server upkeep, player management, constant updates, or you'll have a wreck.
• Just being an "overseer" isn't going to do anything for your team (Infact, it could do them worse if you underestimate or overestimate their career options, jobs, pay, or whatnot.) Most teams have leaders who are well versed in the aspects of what they are creating. Even being an entrepreneur would help your credibility.
• Where will all the funding come from? You can not expect kickstarter to provide all of your funding.
• Why would people choose your sci-fi MMO over others that could be more polished in the future, such as a released planetside 2 with updates?
• It also seems like you're just aiming for what "the players want." Sadly, even this generation's MMO's know that it's nearly impossible due to cost, time restraints, development hell, bugs, cheaters and a perfect way to add it into the game to appeal to all players (Timmy, Johnny, Spike, and Vorthos). If a game would be able to simply appeal to all things the players want in a box thats attractive why hasn't it been made yet?
• Normally, Original features in MMOs are very balance-breaking. It can be fun to the user, but not for the person it's being used on (Extra Credits)
• If the development of the game is going to take so long, do you believe that you'll actually have dedicated programmers or artists who will stick with you the entire way? Will your leaving programmers be skilled enough to write simple codes for new people to understand? Will the modelers still have a base plan for what they were doing or will you have to scrap it and start again? (Duke Nukem Forever)
• You require a publisher, who may want to get their "hands" on the game so they see it fit for publishing.
• What kind of talented artists are you looking for? Y'know, my girlfriend does some pretty nice deformed art afterall.
• Where will the main HQ or area of the game take place, a cloud server? Some area?
• What language will the game engine be in? Are you going to acquire the license for an engine or create one with programmers?
• What about modeling programs or graphic art programs. Would you encourage an GNU-style GGB (GNU Compiler, GIMP, and Blender unless someone else has other programs), VSPS3D (Visual Studio, Photoshop, and 3DS Max) or some other combo? Of course this is all optional as anyone can be fluent with anything for use as long as they are portable to other software.
• How will the music be orchestrated? Who will be the main composer also?
• How about quality assurance that isn't open betas, since they usually lead to people attempting to find ways to cheat.
• How will you benefit all your employees? If they won't get paid in your job as well as in others why would they come to you? What if they are poor/in debt?

Honestly I can keep on going. Some of these points can be countered simply and I may have not put much thought into some, but others will remain. If you truely wish to create such a great MMO, you're best off learning how to lead productively first. Take a class or gain some knowledge in entrepreneurship so you may be more knowledgeable in organizing a business. If you want to take it another notch, learn at least the basics of programming, music theory, the type of art you wish for your game, and game design.

Well shoot I guess i'll hang my hat up lol.. not so much.  The original post was intended to recruit those that want to get money for their art work. If or if not I succeed is irrelivant, the person still gets paid either way. Now if someone who has actually created a successful mmo wants to tell me otherwise I would take the time to listen. 

NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY. 

SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.

Originally posted by pauly6478

NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY. 

SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.

"I have put a lot of time into working on this game, it will be a scifi mmo and I am currently looking to pay players who love video games to come up with player models and armor models for this game. You come up with the ideas of what you think looks epic and what you think games need to look like. I will pay for the rights to your artwork if I find it to be very professionally done and what I believe players want."

That's very unclear. Are you looking for concept art? It reads as if you are looking for actual 3D models, but there is no information on style, format or specs - just "what you think looks epic."

It's paragraphs like the one above that to you seem absolutely fine, but to those who are familiar with what you are requesting, it just screams of lack of familiarity with the actual scope or process of the project you are getting into. Definitely a lack of familiarity with the pitfalls. For example, no one that works on a professional level would volunteer based on what you wrote. You'll get amateurs and hobbyists. Now the problem isn't really that their work will be bad, but they won't have the experience or skills to bring all their works into one consistent look across the board. Combine that with the asset request being simply "create what you think is epic" and you'll have an epic mess of disjointed/clashing art.

What do you do when one guy brings you a pink and orange broad sword, another brings you a rusted, serrated steel broadsword and a third brings you an oversized FinalFantasy-style six-foot monstrosity? If you're going to have them all in the game at once, I'd say Saint's Row beat you to the punch on that asthetic. :)  If you're going to allow x but not y and z then why not set those parameters earlier so as to not waste anyone's time?

Pauly this reminds me of a line from Monty Python.

Despite everything they told me I build my 1st Castle in the swamp and it sunk. So I build a second castle on top of it and it fell down and sunk into the swamp. I build my 3rd castle on top of that and it burned down, fell over, and then sunk into the swamp. But the 4th Castle, the 4th Castle I built stayed up!

Pauly my friend. There will always be people who say you will fail. You will probably fail. If you learn from your failures and use it to build the product that you envision then it may one day be what you want it to be. Thats why scientists use trial and error to to make discoveries.

Short Version: Screw the man. Make your game. Even if it burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp on the 3rd try. Because the 4th one might just stand up.

Originally posted by pauly6478

Again taking this post off topic as it wasn't to discuss the game but more to recruit. But I will reply one last time. If I made it seem as if I have no computer programmers working on this I apologize. My post above about computer programmers was in the future we will be needing more and I want them to be "players."

It has been done (see Simutronics for a working model).   Essentially, hiring coders as independent contractors, and paying them peanuts (from the player base, working for the love of the game plus beer & pretzels money).

It hasn't been done by anyone who didn't involve himself deeply in the creation of the game personally, have skills managing a team, etc.   And it hasn't been done by anyone who used "amateur" as a hiring criteria.

Interview with David Whatley.  Note the timespan we're talking about--decades rather than years.  Also not that the final product is very much a boutique game, by MMO standards.  And of course all of the early work on Hero's Journey was redirected into its own game engine (HE) and ended up as vaporware.

Originally posted by Ciano

Pauly this reminds me of a line from Monty Python.

Despite everything they told me I build my 1st Castle in the swamp and it sunk. So I build a second castle on top of it and it fell down and sunk into the swamp. I build my 3rd castle on top of that and it burned down, fell over, and then sunk into the swamp. But the 4th Castle, the 4th Castle I built stayed up!

 

Pauly my friend. There will always be people who say you will fail. You will probably fail. If you learn from your failures and use it to build the product that you envision then it may one day be what you want it to be. Thats why scientists use trial and error to to make discoveries.

 

Short Version: Screw the man. Make your game. Even if it burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp on the 3rd try. Because the 4th one might just stand up.

I think the lesson is: Listen to those smarter than you and don't build your castle on a f***ing swamp!

My ideas on a successful and fun mmorpg

- Sandbox

- Random scripted NPCs/NPCs can die/Daily habits/Vacation/Criminals/New NPCs can be added etc.

- All NPCs have voiceovers.

- NPCs can be saved from monsters/NPCs can send you to places to complete missions/Rebuild cities/Craft armour,weapons and food for soldiers etc.

- There will be no quest or event bar. Your deeds will be counted and rewarded by NPCs who you helped or gave you a mission.

- No teleportation, but mounts can be used.

- Action oriented combat. You can dodge, strafe, jump etc and use skills while you move. 

- Precise pshysical collision and physical detection.

- Weapon type determines what offensive skills you have available. Mace + Shield would let you CC enemies and Block attacks

- Armour type determines what defensive skills you have available. Light Armour would let you use magic shields, walls and destructive spells like firestorms.

- No gathering proffesions

- No craft proffesions

- You can gather anything and craft anything

- Mix and match resources to create new interesting items.

- Buildings are destructible and repairable. 

This is a few examples how a really good mmorpg could look like.

Originally posted by pauly6478

NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY. 

SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.

So why didn't you just come out and say "I have a mega-idea for a game, I want free artwork"?

Originally posted by Ciano
Didn't you read the caps? He wants to pay for his artwork.

Might start with hiring a lead artist, I suppose.  But if he doesn't have an engine yet, he needs real coders to build one, or buy one and adapt it.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Ciano
Didn't you read the caps? He wants to pay for his artwork.

Might start with hiring a lead artist, I suppose.  But if he doesn't have an engine yet, he needs real coders to build one, or buy one and adapt it.

I heard the 'Hero Engine' is available. XD

Originally posted by jpnz

I heard the 'Hero Engine' is available. XD

Yup.  One of several available, in fact.

But starting with animators strikes me as an essentially backwards approach.  Art Style tends to be a "near the end" consideration.

And unfortunately, 3D artists no longer work for beer & pretzels money.  They're in higher demand than that.  And they certainly don't work for free (you can try to hire some Interns, I guess, before they graduate).

Not a bad plan really, all of the "work in gaming!" podunk colleges are churning out batches of "animator" people who will shortly be unemployed.

Originally posted by Ciano
Didn't you read the caps? He wants to pay for his artwork.

Works.  Sorry, I misread that and thought the OP was asking for free artwork.

@ OP:  Try the Developers Corner Help Wanted.  I'm sure there are several talented artists who are qualified to help.

Originally posted by pauly6478

,,,

I would also like to add that my inspiration comes from a game I belive to be one of the best games ever made called Anarchy Online. 

,,,

want to create a mega-sandbox mmo inspired by Anarchy Online? 

damn man, i like you already

as a fellow AO fan i can only say, GO for it and i hope you can achieve what you claim you can

Insane666 / Insanity666

Rubi-ka 1 (Atlantean)

i also would have tons of ideas

mobs played by players, when they do damage they get xp and can play better mobs. finally world or raid bosses?

must be fun, logging into a rat (swarm) hunting for lv 1 heros

quests only by other players....

Originally posted by InFlamestwo

This is a few examples how a really good mmorpg could look like.

Good.  Do you have a Server Farm available?

About done peeing in the wheaties for the day, just this last one to add: Don't become a member of the "completed mmo but no one wants to buy it" club.

There's a fair number of these startup guys running around the gaming conventions every year, trying to find a Major interested enough in supporting their game with hardware infrastructure.  Building a fair-sized server farm is generally a bigger expense than all of the software development combined.  More to it than just the servers; access to enough throughput from the internet, routers, power backup, nanana.

SOE used to rent out their excess server capacity, back in the day.  But they're carrying a lot of titles right now, there may not be more to be had.  EA probably has some excess capacity available.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Ciano

Pauly this reminds me of a line from Monty Python.

Despite everything they told me I build my 1st Castle in the swamp and it sunk. So I build a second castle on top of it and it fell down and sunk into the swamp. I build my 3rd castle on top of that and it burned down, fell over, and then sunk into the swamp. But the 4th Castle, the 4th Castle I built stayed up!

 

Pauly my friend. There will always be people who say you will fail. You will probably fail. If you learn from your failures and use it to build the product that you envision then it may one day be what you want it to be. Thats why scientists use trial and error to to make discoveries.

 

Short Version: Screw the man. Make your game. Even if it burns down, falls over, and sinks into the swamp on the 3rd try. Because the 4th one might just stand up.

I think the lesson is: Listen to those smarter than you and don't build your castle on a f***ing swamp!

 /win

The OP doesn't want to listen to the advice in this thread.  How will it turn out when the real work starts?

Originally posted by XAPGames

Originally posted by pauly6478

NOW I WILL POST IN CAPS TO HOPEFULLY GET THE POINT ACROSS. I AM LOOKING FOR SOMEONE TO PAY FOR THEIR ARTWORK. I AM NOT LOOKING FOR ADVICE ON HOW TO RUN MY COMPANY. 

SO PLEASE KEEP IT ON TOPIC.

 

So why didn't you just come out and say "I have a mega-idea for a game, I want free artwork"?

 

 

Because I dont want free I willing to pay :]