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News & Features Discussion  » General: Smedley: MMOs 'Are Stagnant and Stuck in This Model'

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113 posts found
  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 965

12/20/12 2:41:34 PM#41

You can make almost any game work if you correctly budget for the amount of money you'll bring in.   Making a high quality clone has paid off for Rift, while SWTOR misjudgements have caused problems.

 

While this sort of talk flows like mana to some ears, just look at the entertainment business's other patterns.   Every summer, blockbusters with roughly similar explosions, shooting, action, and lackluster story and sense make a ton of money.  Most are sequels and remakes.  

 

Fans of the old school have to hope that this talk is serious, and that what comes of it will be good, and make enough money to prove the model to be viable.   At least Sony doesn't tend to kill of their creations at the drop of a hat, like some. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  PyrateLV

Tipster

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 1106

12/20/12 2:45:56 PM#42
Umm, isnt Smedley one of the very people that has been keeping MMOs "stagnant and stuck"?

Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
Played: UO - EQ1 - AO - DAoC - NC - CoH/CoV - SWG - WoW - EVE - AA - LotRO - DFO - STO - FE - MO - RIFT
Playing: Skyrim
Following: The Repopulation
I want a Virtual World, not just a Game.
ITS TOO HARD! - Matt Firor (ZeniMax)

  Olevott

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/20/12
Posts: 2

12/20/12 2:57:20 PM#43

You know what is rediculous in Smedley saying this ... STAR WARS WAS A DAMN SANDBOX .. They completely destroyed that game and lost 240k subscriptions in 30 days ... Are we to honestly believe that now you want to make a living breathing world when you already had it and destroyed it?

 

I wouldn't play your sandbox game if it bites me in the ass because sure enough 2 years after release you will completely morph the game into the status quo.

 

People from SWG asked for small tweaks and bug fixes and they got the Nge/WOW clone.  People will not forget what you did to your first sandbox and you tried to tell the players this is what you asked for and it was not.   After 240k subscriptions left you you held to your guns and said "this is a better version of the game", a couple of years later SWG was cancelled and you lost your liscense with Lucas ... I guess it wasn't a better version after all.  No one at SOE would own up to their mistake and change it back, you wouldn't offer a classic server for those 240k who refused to play the garbage you replaced it with, so give them one reason why ANYONE should trust anything you say.

 

 

JUST SAYING...............

  Hedeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/27/05
Posts: 889

12/20/12 3:00:15 PM#44
Originally posted by health001

3 things that are a must for eq 3

 

1 racial starting citys

2 omg large raids (make guilds compete)

3 the most important one ,TRAIN TO ZONE !

 

 

well atleast 1 of those points, you can already know wont happen - atleast I d expect them to have no visual zones in EQ Next : P   but ofc, Smed pretty much confirmed that there would be raids in EQNext at the fanfaire - saying EQ players expect to see raids in a game with this name

  GrayGhost79

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 4885

12/20/12 3:05:59 PM#45
Originally posted by Thebigthrill

If my last name was Smedley I would have changed it to something like Silver , Faulkner , Brooks , Tesh or Davidson.

Or I would have given myself a nick name .

But I would never have stuck with the name Smedley.

But then how would his brother Smeagol get in touch with him? Smedley and Smeagol were very close growing up. 

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1724

"I shall take your position into consideration"

12/20/12 3:10:25 PM#46
Originally posted by GrayGhost79
Originally posted by Thebigthrill

If my last name was Smedley I would have changed it to something like Silver , Faulkner , Brooks , Tesh or Davidson.

Or I would have given myself a nick name .

But I would never have stuck with the name Smedley.

But then how would his brother Smeagol get in touch with him? Smedley and Smeagol were very close growing up. 

Good one!

Playing: Chronicle 1
Waiting for: None of the games already announced

My game concept thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369707 (any feedback appreciated)

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 965

12/20/12 3:12:13 PM#47
Originally posted by Olevott

You know what is rediculous in Smedley saying this ... STAR WARS WAS A DAMN SANDBOX .. They completely destroyed that game and lost 240k subscriptions in 30 days ... Are we to honestly believe that now you want to make a living breathing world when you already had it and destroyed it?

 

I wouldn't play your sandbox game if it bites me in the ass because sure enough 2 years after release you will completely morph the game into the status quo.

 

People from SWG asked for small tweaks and bug fixes and they got the Nge/WOW clone.  People will not forget what you did to your first sandbox and you tried to tell the players this is what you asked for and it was not.   After 240k subscriptions left you you held to your guns and said "this is a better version of the game", a couple of years later SWG was cancelled and you lost your liscense with Lucas ... I guess it wasn't a better version after all.  No one at SOE would own up to their mistake and change it back, you wouldn't offer a classic server for those 240k who refused to play the garbage you replaced it with, so give them one reason why ANYONE should trust anything you say.

 

 

JUST SAYING...............

SWG was fairly broken on release.  It was released a year too early, had character classes that never worked, tons of bugs, and had a middle and upper management who ranged from oblvious to the trouble to actively screwing things up.  

 

It was hemmoraging subscriptions before the NGE.  In the MMO that I was playing at the time, I remember a whole slew of people who were in the 'I'm just playing this til WoW comes out' camp.  You can see that effect in the numbers of a lot of MMOs at the time, that giant sucking sound of people moving to WoW.

 

They would have been wiser to just work on the problems within the existant framework.  They'd at least have been able to keep the folks who really liked that.  But I think the game was so poorly built, so broken, that they probably couldn't have reasonably managed it.    Hopefully they've learned some lessons since then.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Ice-Queen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2423

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

12/20/12 3:12:41 PM#48
Originally posted by Larsa

Looks like SOE has seen the light, at least partly, with the admission that the current themepark model doesn't work. The themepark model works for loads of players, plenty of people buy the games - but the customers don't like the games long enough to make the model work financially.

Cue in the sandbox appraoch. Sure, you get less players initially - but those you get play (and pay) for many more months.

Now, if only SOE would see the light too with their business model. Just make it a subscription game with a free trial and ditch all this F2P nonsense.

 

I think Smedley is wrong, subscription based mmorpgs are not a thing of the past. Blizzard still shows that's not true. I'd much rather pay a subscription than have to deal with a so called "free to play" game that needs the cash shop to keep it going.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 10803

12/20/12 3:13:26 PM#49
Originally posted by PyrateLV
Umm, isnt Smedley one of the very people that has been keeping MMOs "stagnant and stuck"?

Smed blamed himself too in the article

 

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1483

12/20/12 3:14:18 PM#50
Originally posted by SBFord

Sony Online Entertainment's John Smedley has some advice for the future MMOs: "to change the way we do this", even including Sony's games in the statement. Most MMOs today are stuck in the current model of developing content that is quickly eaten up by locusts. This, according to Smed, has to change.


 

 

strange, few years ago Smed turned a sandbox into the themepark which was the future according to him.

 

 

I wonder what the general reaction of all other MMO developers out there is when they hear Smed knows how MMO's should be made.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2573

12/20/12 3:23:22 PM#51

Well, I hope they bring something out with depth to it, quality harvesting/crafting, pve with open dungeons, raid areas for all those that like raids, starter areas again for races, big world that is not cut/paste, but has interesting spots to xp hunt.  I also look forward to the alluded too content tool, making players DMs to an extent.

 

They could come out with a content kit, and maybe have some type of approval process, otherwise it would probably be abused.

 

 

I just hope they get away from all this personal story, phasing, rails, and instances.

 

Bring back earlier EQ1 type dungeons, trains (even though they can suck, it added to the adventure/experience having to keep watch and identify trouble areas/safe spots)...

 

Smed can then buy UO, re-release official classic type servers, and release content in the style of the original game....Then he can do the same for SWG, balance it, nerf the buffs down to where you are not superman, and add sandbox type content.

 

 

Not asking for much....

  Olevott

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/20/12
Posts: 2

12/20/12 4:23:17 PM#52
Originally posted by Xthos

Well, I hope they bring something out with depth to it, quality harvesting/crafting, pve with open dungeons, raid areas for all those that like raids, starter areas again for races, big world that is not cut/paste, but has interesting spots to xp hunt.  I also look forward to the alluded too content tool, making players DMs to an extent.

 

They could come out with a content kit, and maybe have some type of approval process, otherwise it would probably be abused.

 

 

I just hope they get away from all this personal story, phasing, rails, and instances.

 

Bring back earlier EQ1 type dungeons, trains (even though they can suck, it added to the adventure/experience having to keep watch and identify trouble areas/safe spots)...

 

Smed can then buy UO, re-release official classic type servers, and release content in the style of the original game....Then he can do the same for SWG, balance it, nerf the buffs down to where you are not superman, and add sandbox type content.

 

 

Not asking for much....

 

 

In all honesty ... the Jedi being an Unlocked class to me was the most fun aspect of the game ... the excitement around unlocking was fun for the entire guild, everyone helped with resources for the budding new jedi to make his/her saber, helped in the hunt for crystals and pearls.   I enjoyed it being an alpha class .... believe it or not MOST jedi's played other characters half the time .. I favored my combat medic over my jedi but sometimes i'd get on my jedi just because. 

 

Classes will NEVER be balanced in any game ... if it were it would not be fun.  There is always a class that should have an advantage over your class or a certain string of classes.  If classes were balanced well then no one would die and the game would implode!  

 

That is the biggest agrevation to me in any argument about class balance.  People have no concept in learning to play your class .... some of the classes that were considered horrible played by a player who knows the ins and outs of their class I have seen destroy an entire group of individuals, and then the OMG you are exploiting starts....... seriously before you start asking for class balance think about it ... try learning one class extremely well and you will see that every class has its vulnerable points.

 

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6387

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

12/20/12 4:26:29 PM#53
Originally posted by evilastro
Smed is all talk. The proof is in the pudding, I will believe what he is saying when he releases some solid info / footage of EQNext.

Exactly what I was thinking. If I wanted to listen to someone who says what I want to hear, I would listen to a politican.

  aRtFuLThinG

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1000

12/20/12 5:38:59 PM#54
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by evilastro
Smed is all talk. The proof is in the pudding, I will believe what he is saying when he releases some solid info / footage of EQNext.

Exactly what I was thinking. If I wanted to listen to someone who says what I want to hear, I would listen to a politican.

Well SOE did bring out Planetside2 so that saved Smed's reputation a little bit imo.

 

Which puts them above EA for me atm.

  Popori

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 327

12/20/12 5:50:05 PM#55

I can't do another MMO in the current themepark/indie sandbox fashion.

I offer no criticism because I can not back it up with a solution.  Everything I thought would fix my disinterest in the currect offerings fell short.  I may be among the first to admit I don't know what I want as a consumer - but I do know that nothing on the market really thrills me.  They're not even close calls.

I strongly recommend to all developers to hold your cards close to the chest and see how things play out with this final batch of MMORPGs coming out, I think the time of beating this dead genre are coming to a close and people's wearyness with it all are coming to a head.

With that being said, thank god.  With any luck an MMO crash will ensue and all the cash-grab companies will move on and we'll return to days when innovative companies with original ideas can step up to the plate without being overshadowed by companies that spend more on advertisment schemes than development.

 

/andtheniwokeup

  Hrimnir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1016

12/20/12 7:28:20 PM#56
Originally posted by Fendel84M
How great would it be with all the trash talk about SOE if they end up being the ones to bring back the sandbox on a large scale. The haters would be butt hurt to the extreme since they all vowed not to touch SOE ever again.

Man, i would collapse laughing.  LIterally fall out of my chair laughing. Especially since so much of the soe/smed hate is totally unfounded.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  goozmania

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 101

12/20/12 10:16:51 PM#57
I don't want to play Farmville: EQ Edition... Thanks, though.
  health001

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 55

12/20/12 10:24:38 PM#58
CAMP CHECK ?
  Consequence

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/04
Posts: 355

12/20/12 10:30:11 PM#59

I like what he is saying, but I know where it is coming from. This man has made a living saying 1 thing and doing another. I also find it partuclarly funny that he bashes the current batch of games, which for the most part all follow the themepark model. The Irony is Smedley is arguably the father of themeparks for his role in EQ1. 

 

I am inclinded to think he is reading comments that gamers like all of us are saying and throwing them back in our direction in an effort to tell us what we want to hear. I will care when he actually does what we want, not when he says it. 

  Telondariel

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 847

12/20/12 11:02:42 PM#60
Originally posted by Consequence

I like what he is saying, but I know where it is coming from. This man has made a living saying 1 thing and doing another. I also find it partuclarly funny that he bashes the current batch of games, which for the most part all follow the themepark model. The Irony is Smedley is arguably the father of themeparks for his role in EQ1. 

 

I am inclinded to think he is reading comments that gamers like all of us are saying and throwing them back in our direction in an effort to tell us what we want to hear. I will care when he actually does what we want, not when he says it. 

Exactly this.

 

He and his evil partner in crime, Dave Georgeson (Smokejumper) and their marionette, Holly Windstalker, have had an abrupt change of tune in the last 6 months.  They are regurgitating key phrases and words over and over that their community and the gaming community at large has been clamoring for.  Its a PR stunt.

 

Everyone for the last 5 years has been moaning about the complete failure of the current MMO offerings, their boredom, and "what would make a MMO succeed".  ANet latched onto this and used a lot of hype and spin to attract millions of disgruntled gamers, promising to be different, to truly make a game for the players.  Smedley is doing the same thing. 

 

I fell victim to GW2's overhype and walked away extremely disappointed.  I have over a decade of history with EQ, EQ2, Smedley and his little band of sycophants so I know very well how they do business.  They love to spin a merry tale of promises and the general track record is of disappointment, usually resulting in a burned, angry mass of paying customers that get ignored and left in the dust.

 

Now, as I said I have over a decade with them and chances are that I will be there with the others for the first day of EQN.  I truly love EQ.  The game and community are awesome.  The management, not so much.  So, while I may love to hate Smedley and the way he runs the show, you can't beat the depth and awesomeness of Norrath. 

 

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