I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

My first thought was LOTRO, great lore, rich beautiful world, I loved that game, but I left when they started selling stat scrolls for cash.  I hear end-game crafting mats and the like are for sale.  So Lotro is a bit too pay to win for me to.

Sometimes, it's hard for me to know if a game is pay to win until after I get to end-game, so let me ask, what's a good NON-pay-to-win MMO out there?

Some other games I'm considering:

EQ2 - I played it at launch, put 1000 hours /played to get my character to get to level 35.  I hear leveling is faster now and that there's tons of stuff added in the 8 years since I quit.  I only worry that the whole "free to play" thing is pay to win.

GW2 - I played it in beta, I was impressed, but ultimately I chose to continue playing swtor instead.  I'm curious about this one.

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

There is also this:

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/show/all/sCol/monthlyFee/sOrder/desc

Look for games with the $ (not the ¢ or H) under "pay" (next to "fee")

/2c

Originally posted by suzina

I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

 

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

Its worth a recheck on EQ2, i beleive they have a 2 week trial

any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

Originally posted by gessekai332

any game with item/level progression is going to be p2win if there are bots (every mmorpg known to man). sad but true. nothing is worse than playing a "hardcore" mmorpg where joe shmoe who plays 2 hrs a week is decked out in rares and destroying you in pvp and gloating in chat only because he botted his way to max level and bought all of his items on ebay.

because of this i have turned my attention to moba's where you get a true skill based rpg, where people who buy gold/bot will never stand a chance against basement dwellers who do nothing but play the game for a living.

Hmm... how's that hasty generalization working out for ya?

Originally posted by suzina

I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

My first thought was LOTRO, great lore, rich beautiful world, I loved that game, but I left when they started selling stat scrolls for cash.  I hear end-game crafting mats and the like are for sale.  So Lotro is a bit too pay to win for me to.

 

Sometimes, it's hard for me to know if a game is pay to win until after I get to end-game, so let me ask, what's a good NON-pay-to-win MMO out there?

 

Some other games I'm considering:

EQ2 - I played it at launch, put 1000 hours /played to get my character to get to level 35.  I hear leveling is faster now and that there's tons of stuff added in the 8 years since I quit.  I only worry that the whole "free to play" thing is pay to win.

GW2 - I played it in beta, I was impressed, but ultimately I chose to continue playing swtor instead.  I'm curious about this one.

 

 

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

Sorry Suzi, if you think think one game is pay to win, then basically they are all pay to win unless they are subscription, and even then they might still be pay to win.   

Frankly I think the concept most gamers have of pay to win is a load of horsepucky, but the wise ones that inhabit these forums tell me that I a simply uninformed and ignorant, and so I bow to their wisdom.

By the way, I hope you "win" your next MMO.  

There are not many non-pay to win MMO's left. TERA, GW 2, Secret World, WoW, Rift. Basically the major sub. based one's. However, all of these have a cash shop so they could easily become Pay To Win at any moment.

Best would be to find one that has no cash shop at all. Possibly Darkfall UW but that is PvP focused MMO. Warhammer Online, but that game is dying. Dunno really, not a good time for MMOs without a cash shop...

EDIT: I heard Eve being mentioned there but I would consider the Pay to Win component in that game to be massive. Basically you can spend a bunch of real money to buy PLEX and then convert that to IG money and then buy whatever you want, completely legally. Ships, equipment and even high skilled characters. Eve is one of the biggest Pay to Win games out there.

What ???-to-win would your prefer?

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by suzina

I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

 

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

 

Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

Microtransaction does not equal pay to win at all.  You are absolutely wrong about that and I recommend doing some research prior to making a statment so blatantly inaacurate.  

@OP if you feel like swithingt gears, give Planetside 2 a shot.  It is a fun massive MMOFPS, and in no way P2W.

Best of luck.

Originally posted by Hatefull

Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by suzina

I'm looking for a new MMO.  I won't get into where I'm comming from, but they recently put up best-in-slot equipment for cash on their online store.  I can't stand pay-to-win and had to unsubscribe.

 

Thanks for your help!

-Suzina

 

Every game that is built with microtransactions is P2W.   That is how the game is designed, but I suppose some are less intrusive than others.   I have seen players state The Secret World, GW2, and Aion would be similar to what you are looking for, but I don't have any 1st hand knowledge of any of those.  

Microtransaction does not equal pay to win at all.  You are absolutely wrong about that and I recommend doing some research prior to making a statment so blatantly inaacurate.  

 

@OP if you feel like swithingt gears, give Planetside 2 a shot.  It is a fun massive MMOFPS, and in no way P2W.

 

Best of luck.

Principally he is correct. Cash shop games have an inherent Pay to Win competent in them unless the devs go to great lengths not to put things there that affect gameplay. Any cash shop that has anything that is not purely cosmetical is Pay to Win because it allows people to pay go get more powerful quicker.

PS 2 is Pay to Win. Many items in that game can be obtained faster if you pay. I think you Pay to Win opponents take the therm literally as "winnin" in MMOs is not that straightforward. Basically Pay to Win should translate to Pay to get Advantages and almost every cash shop are like that.

WoW and Rift are definitely your two best options if you want a fantasy MMORPG that is not pay-to-win in any way, shape or form.

While I can't really think of a F2P game that doesn't have some level of pay-to-win, I do know what that looks like and means.

At one point, Nexon's flagship game Maple Story was not pay-to-win at all. The cash shop yielded only items for avatar appearance, world communication, and minor conveniences like pets whose sole contribution was picking up loot for you, something that wasn't always convenient.

When things like 2x exp tickets first came out, that changed things. Grind mattered, thus grind speed gave people an advantage. It wasn't buying elite gear, but it did have impact. Now, the game has a trading system where gear can be bought and sold not unlike Diablo 3's real money auction house, except it's all based on in-game cash shop points. While grind has become so easy that increased exp coupons aren't a huge deal, the market really makes things pay-to-win.

Meanwhile, other games outright offer equipment or gambling/gachapon/mystery purchases which yield gear so far beyond what is commonly available that it's not just pay-to-win, it's pay-to-even-try-PvP.

Honestly, given how easy it is to purchase in-game gear either through gold farming purchases or cash shops, you're looking for a game that mandates the best gear be found, bound to character/account, and/or ignores gear enough that difference in skill is a reliable indicator of performance. If you don't mind how MOBAs and MMOFPS games require unlocks that take a long time and leave you at a serious disadvantage for a long period without paying, you'd be fine. Still, you'll need either quite a few hours of play time or an open wallet to unlock the means to fight competitively at the highest level.

So long as people will pay to win, pay to win is a very attractive business model. If there were enough people who would pay to avoid pay to win, it might make sense to make a game that refuses the pay to win model entirely. At the same time, it seems there's always more people with enough money to ensure pay to win proponents are offering a more profitable game.

Best of luck to you, even if I can't quote any examples. I know what you seek, but I don't know in what form it may exist.

Not pay-to-win:

I would consider this to mean either a) the game is pay-to-play (subscription) and/or b) buy-to-play with no virtual goods selling (legally) for real money.

Vendetta Online is not a pay-to-win game; there is no dl/buy price, and it charges a low subscription fee.  More importantly, there are no virtual items / abilities / areas sold for cash.  If you are a subscriber, you are presented with the same game / virtual world / playing field as everyone else.  It appears as though VO is one of the few and far between games that actually do this, and this is one of the reasons I've kept playing for as long as I have.  It is also worth noting that the VO devs have followed their current business model for over 8 years.