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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Massively shows some honesty

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235 posts found
  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1835

12/20/12 9:25:08 AM#21
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Volkon

Meh... it's opinions, and opinions I disagree with. The fact that he's worrying about how clear roles are being defined shows he's still thinking in a more archaic "roles" mindset from too much trinity training in earlier games. 

 

It's an interesting opinion piece, nothing more.

Umm..thank you captain obvious. yes it is an opinion peice just like saying that GW2 is best MMO of 2012. Everything is an opinion and nothing more.

Don't feel bad.  Volkon is an obvious GW2 fanboi.  Just look at his recent posts regarding such.  He can't be budged at all.  :D  At least he's civil about it though, I'll give him that.

 

I'll be the first to admit to being a GW2 fanboy as well! Appreciate the note on the civility. Too much venom tends to fly over what, ultimately, are just games.

See, being a fanboy blinds you to any and all persepective other than blind devotion.

Take me, for instance. 

I like SWTOR.  I like it a lot.  But I don't consider myself a fanboy.  I see the linear gameplay and other faults with it and try not to defend the obvious shortcomings.

Being a fanboy or hater really adds nothing to any conversation because you are not able to discuss anything.  It's just all praise or hate.....and with that you really can't "discuss".

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  KingJiggly

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/11
Posts: 807

Definition for innovation is below. Your welcome.

12/20/12 9:25:51 AM#22

I can respect that. It just sounds like he is someone who likes to go from quest hub to quest hub with the holy trinity. Some people like it that way, I rather hate it. 

But, it is still goty so I am happy. 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/20/12 9:29:56 AM#23
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by BadSpock

Massively, who just voted GW2 game of the year, is not rosey-eyed fanbois chees'n on the current hotness-

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/where-guild-wars-2-goes-wrong/

Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with.

Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly.

To peak your interest - the highlights in bullet point form-

-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear

-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements

-Area flow is problematic

-Crafting is a freaking mess

-The story is weak

 

Those are some serious issues, but as much as I love the game, I have to agree with the writer of the article.

How does a AAA MMORPG get released with those serious flaws? ...

 

 

What exactly are these "serious flaws" of which you speak?

 

Roles.. of course they're "horribly underexplained and unclear". There never was the intention of "roles" such as in trinity based games. If you actually look at your skills and traits it becomes clear that you're meant to do a bit of everything at the right times. My mesmer will be dealing damage, removing boons, applying conditions, knocking back foes, removing conditions on myself or allies... all situationally. I'm not a tank, a healer or an agent of dps.

Dynamic event, to me, wonderfully replace quests to the point that I can't stomach the thought of an archaic quest-bang system ever again. Dudes with "!" are dead to me. Things should be happening, not static counters in a generic log.

Area Flow? I find it smooth, flowing and pretty well freeing. I'm not being led by a ring in the nose from one quest hub to the next in a predetermined set path through a static world. I'm going where I go, getting where I get, and progressing along the way through content that always remains a challenge.

Crafting... I've found having a 400 jewelcrafter to be a real benefit to my characters. My mesmer is 400 cook and 400 tailor... food and clothing covered! I like it, but of course different crafting likes and dislikes will always be relative. I do wish there was fishing however. 

The story... maybe it's the inner fanboy in me, maybe it's having read Destiny's Edge, but I like the story. Although I will admit to having too much Trahearne and not enough Tybalt.

 

I don't see any of these as flaws, more game benefits that make GW2 stand out above prior MMOs.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/20/12 9:31:41 AM#24
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Volkon

Meh... it's opinions, and opinions I disagree with. The fact that he's worrying about how clear roles are being defined shows he's still thinking in a more archaic "roles" mindset from too much trinity training in earlier games. 

 

It's an interesting opinion piece, nothing more.

Umm..thank you captain obvious. yes it is an opinion peice just like saying that GW2 is best MMO of 2012. Everything is an opinion and nothing more.

Don't feel bad.  Volkon is an obvious GW2 fanboi.  Just look at his recent posts regarding such.  He can't be budged at all.  :D  At least he's civil about it though, I'll give him that.

 

I'll be the first to admit to being a GW2 fanboy as well! Appreciate the note on the civility. Too much venom tends to fly over what, ultimately, are just games.

See, being a fanboy blinds you to any and all persepective other than blind devotion.

Take me, for instance. 

I like SWTOR.  I like it a lot.  But I don't consider myself a fanboy.  I see the linear gameplay and other faults with it and try not to defend the obvious shortcomings.

Being a fanboy or hater really adds nothing to any conversation because you are not able to discuss anything.  It's just all praise or hate.....and with that you really can't "discuss".

You wound me. I definitely disagree with the negative crowd on most things, but I feel I've been fairly good at expressing myself in a positive discussive manner. 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  Shannia

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/05
Posts: 2125

"World of WarCraft is held alive solely by the mediocrity of competing products." RendRegen

12/20/12 9:32:26 AM#25
Originally posted by Volkon

 

I don't see any of these as flaws, more game benefits that make GW2 stand out above prior MMOs.

Just wanted to say thank you for completely ingoring the point of my reply.

Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware

"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1835

12/20/12 9:33:32 AM#26
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by Zalmon
Originally posted by Volkon

Meh... it's opinions, and opinions I disagree with. The fact that he's worrying about how clear roles are being defined shows he's still thinking in a more archaic "roles" mindset from too much trinity training in earlier games. 

 

It's an interesting opinion piece, nothing more.

Umm..thank you captain obvious. yes it is an opinion peice just like saying that GW2 is best MMO of 2012. Everything is an opinion and nothing more.

Don't feel bad.  Volkon is an obvious GW2 fanboi.  Just look at his recent posts regarding such.  He can't be budged at all.  :D  At least he's civil about it though, I'll give him that.

 

I'll be the first to admit to being a GW2 fanboy as well! Appreciate the note on the civility. Too much venom tends to fly over what, ultimately, are just games.

See, being a fanboy blinds you to any and all persepective other than blind devotion.

Take me, for instance. 

I like SWTOR.  I like it a lot.  But I don't consider myself a fanboy.  I see the linear gameplay and other faults with it and try not to defend the obvious shortcomings.

Being a fanboy or hater really adds nothing to any conversation because you are not able to discuss anything.  It's just all praise or hate.....and with that you really can't "discuss".

You wound me. I definitely disagree with the negative crowd on most things, but I feel I've been fairly good at expressing myself in a positive discussive manner. 

Ha.  I didn't mean you in particular.  In hindsight, I shouldn't have really targeted you like that.  I just mean those on either extreme.

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

12/20/12 9:33:42 AM#27

Yea, but they awarded it game of the year.  They also ran the article at some time in the past illustrating some conceived weak points with GW2. 

 

To say GW2 is a perfect game is ridiculous because its not.  However I can't really find myself to agree with all the points of the article either. 

 

-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear

Roles are horribly unclear?  In what way exactly?  They're not.  I've NEVER heard this as a negative point regarding GW2 until now.  There's not a trinity, so I'm not sure what roles has to do with anything.  You can speck your character in a variety of ways making them more tanky, dps oriented, or otherwise. 

-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements

Dynamic Events are not supposed to take the place of quests, but I do get the feeling while playing TASKS are.  And in that regard they do just fine, giving multiple ways to complete the task (the little hearts on the map).  Dynamic events are just an added bonus that adds variety and something extra to do. 

-Area flow is problematic

Yea...again...this doesn't even make sense.  "Area flow" is fine.  I transition from one area to the next having absolutely no issue or confusion regarding where to go or what to do.  I read his reasoning in the article and that has not been my experience with GW2 in any way, shape, or form.  Area flow...yea...gimme a break.  In fact, I'd say "area flow" is fantastic.  I've never had any kind of problem. 

-Crafting is a freaking mess  

Could be.  I have no idea.  I don't craft in mmos.  Just not my thing. 

-The story is weak

I'll agree with this one.  I don't prefer the story in GW2 of any of the classes I've played and usually put off story missions as some sort of side thing I do from time to time and only kind of enjoy.  I don't dislike it, but I don't like it either.  It's passable for what it is but not a high point of the game. 

 

 

So I could only possibly agree with one thing this author said, regarding story.   Couldn't speak to what crafting is like.  The rest of it doesn't even make sense to me.  They are not things I've noticed in GW2.  I seriously enjoy GW2 and I think its probably the best mmo I've played. 

 

But if you want critical honesty, I have a few gripes that I see as legitimate, at least to me. 

 

First off I think PVP is garbage.  I can't tell what's even going on half the time due to all the spell effects.  In all other mmorpgs, Im completely aware of what's going on, all the time.  If I die I know exactly why.  I know exactly what Im doing, and I usually excel in PVP.  In GW2 sometimes I'm the best player, and in the match right after that I'm one of the worst.  I can't tell what's even going on half the time.  It feels like a chaotic madhouse to me. 

 

There needs to be a "preview" option for the tradehouse, because in such a cosmetic focused game this not being there is a ridiculous oversight. 

 

The lack of a dungeon finder is equally as ridiculous. 

 

I think weapon models and armor models are not evenly spread throughout the game.  In the path from 1 to 80 you are probably not going to find a lot of varied looking types of weapons and armor, even with the ability to transmute. 

 

Those are just some of my honest complaints that agitate me.  But GW2 is a great game.  See?  I too can tell you things I dont personally like about the game.  And I too will also say its my "Game of the Year".  Trying to use an article from a source that lists problems with GW2, when the same source just gave it "Game of the Year" is kind of pointless.  I hope the OP actually understands that.  Not sure what kind of point is hoping to be made here. 

 

Probably none at all.  That's the feeling I get. 

 

 

 

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/20/12 9:34:27 AM#28


Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by BadSpock Massively, who just voted GW2 game of the year, is not rosey-eyed fanbois chees'n on the current hotness- http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/where-guild-wars-2-goes-wrong/ Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with. Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly. To peak your interest - the highlights in bullet point form- -Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear -Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements -Area flow is problematic -Crafting is a freaking mess -The story is weak  
Those are some serious issues, but as much as I love the game, I have to agree with the writer of the article. How does a AAA MMORPG get released with those serious flaws? ...  
 

What exactly are these "serious flaws" of which you speak?

 

Roles.. of course they're "horribly underexplained and unclear". There never was the intention of "roles" such as in trinity based games. If you actually look at your skills and traits it becomes clear that you're meant to do a bit of everything at the right times. My mesmer will be dealing damage, removing boons, applying conditions, knocking back foes, removing conditions on myself or allies... all situationally. I'm not a tank, a healer or an agent of dps.

Dynamic event, to me, wonderfully replace quests to the point that I can't stomach the thought of an archaic quest-bang system ever again. Dudes with "!" are dead to me. Things should be happening, not static counters in a generic log.

Area Flow? I find it smooth, flowing and pretty well freeing. I'm not being led by a ring in the nose from one quest hub to the next in a predetermined set path through a static world. I'm going where I go, getting where I get, and progressing along the way through content that always remains a challenge.

Crafting... I've found having a 400 jewelcrafter to be a real benefit to my characters. My mesmer is 400 cook and 400 tailor... food and clothing covered! I like it, but of course different crafting likes and dislikes will always be relative. I do wish there was fishing however. 

The story... maybe it's the inner fanboy in me, maybe it's having read Destiny's Edge, but I like the story. Although I will admit to having too much Trahearne and not enough Tybalt.

 

I don't see any of these as flaws, more game benefits that make GW2 stand out above prior MMOs.




Your first sentence was kind of my impression. I understand where the article is coming from, and those things are definitely things that could be worked on, but a serious flaw is something that impacts the sales of a game. These things obviously didn't.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/20/12 9:34:31 AM#29
Originally posted by Shannia
Originally posted by Volkon

 

I don't see any of these as flaws, more game benefits that make GW2 stand out above prior MMOs.

Just wanted to say thank you for completely ingoring the point of my reply.

Wait, what?

 

* Rereads*

 

Oh crap, you're right, sorry about that. I don't think cash flow was an issue with GW2, but I did <cough> overlook your point. My bad.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

12/20/12 9:38:03 AM#30

Hearts work as a replacement for quests. They never said dynamic events would.

 

Edit: I agree with the rest. Though i enjoyed some of the personal stories and some parts.

  FromHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1338

12/20/12 9:38:07 AM#31
Massively might get banned for writing the truth. Don't underestimate the power of Koreans

Secrets of Dragon´s Spine Trailer.. ! :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwT9cFVQCMw

Best MMOs ever played: Ultima, EvE, SW Galaxies, Age of Conan, The Secret World
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2X_SbZCHpc&t=21s
.


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The Return of ELITE !

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2150

12/20/12 9:38:41 AM#32
Originally posted by Volkon

The fact that he's worrying about how clear roles are being defined shows he's still thinking in a more archaic "roles" mindset from too much trinity training in earlier games. 

i have to agree with the above. there's too much of this damnable role stuff being ground into people's experience of gaming. i miss dnd where classes had roles to play but not sharply defined, esp in combat. what dm allows monsters to be so stupid as to attack only one character while the rest of the characters are pounding the crap out of them?

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  Zeus.CM

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/10
Posts: 1790

www.croatian-maniacs.com

12/20/12 9:41:05 AM#33
Originally posted by BadSpock

Massively, who just voted GW2 game of the year, is not rosey-eyed fanbois chees'n on the current hotness-

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/19/where-guild-wars-2-goes-wrong/

Have some pretty interesting and intelligent arguments against the game that I tend to agree with.

Pretty much highlights the issues I have with the game almost perfectly.

To peak your interest - the highlights in bullet point form-

-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear

The fact that roles aren't set in stone is what's great about this game. People used to praise that, and now you want back to set roles? Every class have several roles, that's why holy trinity washbrains (pardon me) can't figure it out.

-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements

Uhm, yes they do. Events are spread out everywhere, happening and you do them as you come near them. It's like seeing a quest giver "on the move" and you join his quest. I leveled up primarly doing DEs. 

-Area flow is problematic

Massively states that this is problematic because game doesn't force you to go to higher level areas when you outlevel it? Sorry, but that was one of the positive things about gw2 and now people hate this. ALso, masivelly states that's this is a problem because gear you get will be locked for that area level. This is misinformation, because gear drops scale to your level.

-Crafting is a freaking mess

Gw2 has simple, fast paced and logical crafting, and yet the masivelly writer was lost? I've learned how to craft in 10 minutes when I started playing this game.

-The story is weak

Can't say annything here, I like it, they don't.

 

  User Deleted
12/20/12 9:43:12 AM#34
Originally posted by BadSpock

-Roles are horribly underexplained and unclear

Agreed, and that's why so many people are confused by the game and think it's "shallow", when it's not. But then, if ANet explained it better, I'm still not sure most would understand it... people have been so brainwashed by the "carrot / trinity / threat" game model these last years, they seem unable to adapt to something different.

-Dynamic events don't work in their role as quest replacements

That is nonsense. First hint the guy played GW2 like a WoW clone, not looking any further.

-Area flow is problematic

Second hint the guy played GW2 like a WoW clone, not looking any further.

-Crafting is a freaking mess

Crafting is well done and actually produces USEFUL items, as opposed to most games we got served these last 8 years. It actually looks like the guy is pretty dumb and didn't understand how it works at all, when it's really simple. Maybe he should learn to use the Internet too, when his brain isn't good enough to do the job?

-The story is weak

 Opinion here. I've done all three different Norn story paths, and they are quite excellent, but I agree it could have been better... yet it's enjoyable enough for me to go through Norn ones three times, so it could have been worse. It's only opinion here, totally subjective.

To make it short, his first point has some merit, and I think that's why so many people like the author of that "article" are confused about GW2. But then, in the other points, it becomes clear that the author is one of those WoW and clones players who are unable to think out of the box. The chapter about "zone flow" makes that the most obvious, he obviously completely missed the point.

And when some guy adds "consider this as a reality check" at the end of his "article", my conclusion is obvious: it's another of those arrogant reviewers who think their opinion is the end of it all. And the fact that he tries to minimize the negativity with his "Is it bad then? Oh heck, no" don't change his arrogant tone which peaks at the "reality check" part.

Here's a real "reality check" for Mr Eliot: your opinion is just that... another opinion. You don't hold "The Truth".

PS: the same kind of arrogance lurks in the OP's post by the way... and I would never have thought I'd say that about badspock. So only the reviews matching your opinion are "honest"? Sorry if I don't agree. And then, the sad little tirade about fanbois. You can do better than that, Mr Spock. You can give your opinion without insulting those who happen to still enjoy the game. Sadly, you joined the bandwagon.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7677

Logic be damned!

 
OP  12/20/12 9:45:56 AM#35
Originally posted by NBlitz
Thank you for the link. Can only surf mobile.

Just a little by the by, it's "to pique someone's interest".

Lol I can't believe I did that, thanks! *fixed

Now Playing: D3:RoS, Watch Dogs
Looking Towards: Destiny

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6486

"Only cunts name their swords"

12/20/12 9:46:19 AM#36
Yeah Massively is my main source of news and reviews for MMORPGs. They (almost) always gives you a balanced view of things.

  elitero

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/30/12
Posts: 293

12/20/12 9:48:45 AM#37
Originally posted by Yamota
Yeah Massively is my main source of news and reviews for MMORPGs. They (almost) always gives you a balanced view of things.

As long as its in ones best interest right?

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/20/12 9:52:22 AM#38
Originally posted by Volkon
It's an interesting opinion piece, nothing more.

As with all player reviews or game articles, any site, any time:

Great Journalism—(if you agree)

Utter Crap—(if you don't)

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1835

12/20/12 9:54:07 AM#39
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Volkon
It's an interesting opinion piece, nothing more.

As with all player reviews or game articles, any site, any time:

Great Journalism—(if you agree)

Utter Crap—(if you don't)

That's a load of crap.

:)

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2422

12/20/12 9:57:41 AM#40


Originally posted by Volkon
Roles.. of course they're "horribly underexplained and unclear". There never was the intention of "roles" such as in trinity based games. If you actually look at your skills and traits it becomes clear that you're meant to do a bit of everything at the right times. My mesmer will be dealing damage, removing boons, applying conditions, knocking back foes, removing conditions on myself or allies... all situationally. I'm not a tank, a healer or an agent of dps.

As a self-professed "fanboy" of GW2 you should know that GW2 does indeed have a trinity of roles.


ArenaNet has been saying from the very beginning that they didnt remove the trinity they just changed it.


The combat roles for GW2 are damage, support and control.


Lastly, the roles are very much "horribly underexplained and unclear".

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