Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

I support the Nether Sandbox!

But seriously, Darkfall has some crafting, some PvE elements, building your villages, looting the corpses of your former "friends" who thought they could trust you.

It's a lot more sandboxy than PS2. But I agree it's not as sandboxy as it should be. Too much emphasis on the PvP part.

sandbox in the literal term means a box where you build everything you want. 

aka nothing is premade for you. 

so no PS2 is not a sandbox its a FPS game with capture the flag mechanics. as for DF i wouldnt really call it a sandbox either as far as im aware of its game mechanics its your typical mmo style pvp game. with just a jack of all trades system but like most people. everyone will have differant views on things. 

personally for me i dont care if a game is or is not a sandbox as long as it fullfills the promises it makes and is enjoyable.

I vote for "Both are but for different reasons".

DF's delineation is being able to build things, in PS2 you can't.  That said you can change "classes in PS2 at any time and has a pretty open progession system.  Once PS2 adds player built bases from resources I will consider it a more complete sandbox.

Edit: Not more sandbox than DF but more sandbox to itself.

Aventurine is a great Indie company lead by supersmart devs like Tasos who work long hard hours with no pay just to bring players a amazing game and are mocked for thier brilliance. Thus Darkfall unholy wars is a sandbox.

Planetside 2 is run by SOE a money grubbing greedy company that is the devil. Thus it is a themepark!

/sarcasm off

Neither are sandboxes but then ask people what sand is and you will get many different answers.

   So we should stick to what we know....

Planetside 2 is a f2P released game that is playable. (is it fun? Opinions differ)

Darkfall Unholy wars is a Pay beta subscription game that has now missed multiple release dates and been forced back to a very buggy beta state thats barely off the ground with most players unable to even log in . (is it Fun? Opinions differ but I think its safe to point out some people find cutting themselves and self mutilization fun as well)

ps2 would only be a sandbox if they did away with classes completely, and required you to build each part of the moble units (not just the modules) as well if they included actual player/group conquest zones where you can build stuff (bases ect) and had each part indepent of everything (like repopulation is doing) then it would be more of a fps sandbox  until then its always going to be a FPS capture the flag progression game.

other wise you may as well say counter strike is a sandbox :/ 

if a game wants to be a sandbox it can not include a class system, as well as allow players to explore and build anything anywhere they want with enough time to do so.  which neither game really seems to have from what i have seen.

Originally posted by Ichmen

if a game wants to be a sandbox it can not include a class system, as well as allow players to explore and build anything anywhere they want with enough time to do so.  which neither game really seems to have from what i have seen.

Elder Scrolls.

PS2 will be adding more sandbpx features, like outfit owned bases.The first sandbox mmofps? Maybe, but It is not a mmoRPG. 

Originally posted by winter

Aventurine is a great Indie company lead by supersmart devs like Tasos who work long hard hours with no pay just to bring players a amazing game and are mocked for thier brilliance. Thus Darkfall unholy wars is a sandbox.

Planetside 2 is run by SOE a money grubbing greedy company that is the devil. Thus it is a themepark!

/sarcasm off

Neither are sandboxes but then ask people what sand is and you will get many different answers.

   So we should stick to what we know....

Planetside 2 is a f2P released game that is playable. (is it fun? Opinions differ)

Darkfall Unholy wars is a Pay beta subscription game that has now missed multiple release dates and been forced back to a very buggy beta state thats barely off the ground with most players unable to even log in . (is it Fun? Opinions differ but I think its safe to point out some people find cutting themselves and self mutilization fun as well)

 you almost had me...

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

People don't understand what the term sandbox means, and that is how it gets confused with games that don't fall into the themepark mold.

I would definitely consider PS2 to be a sandbox, it's one niche of the sandbox, which is regional conquest, it doesn't have ALL the elements that a sandbox could potentially have but it has its focus on one of them, therefore I would consider it a sandbox game.

I don't think a sandbox game needs to have ALL the potential features that a sandbox could have, since a sandbox's nature is already so vast and large, that line will be VERY arbitrarily placed based on personal perference.

They did away with the cert system didn't they? I haven't played it yet, but that would definitely take it a little step further away, but the brunt of the game is still regional conquest - which is a sandbox feature that cannot be denied.

It is a sandbox.
 

To keep it short, I think a sandbox is an MMORPG with highly customizable character development with more than one aspect of play.

There's so many different things you could do in a game like EVE, SWG, or UO and not all of them involved fighting.  You could play a single character and not once fight a single mob let alone another player.

In Darkfall, everything you do feeds into the PvP machine same as Planetside 2.  

Darkfall is more of a sandbox than Planetside 2 thanks to character cutomization, but for it to be a true sandbox, I'd like to see more viable styles of play that don't involve PKing.

Originally posted by tollbooth
Do you people not understand the literal meaning behind the term "Sandbox"?  In a sanbox in the actual world you can build whatever you want using shovels/buckets or whatever.  That term is used to describe games where the world is built by the players instead of the dev's.  DF and PS2 are not even close to being sandboxes.  They are both just pvp arenas.

You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

Ultima Online, Wurm, SWG, EvE are sandboxes.

Darkfall, Mortal Online are Ganking Simulators an attempt to get all the antisocial gamers in one place as a social experiment.

Planetside 2, Firefall are an attempt to cash in on the MMO part by adding it to FPS and charging players for extra stuff to make them feel like a speecial snowflake.

If you need more fantastically insightful definitions of what games truly are don't hesitate to ask I'm always willing to spread the knowledge. 

Originally posted by kalrhael

You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

Lol. Everything you "conquer" in PS2 will be captured back overnight. It's totally inconsequential in the long run. You nation will not grow stronger or weaker. The only thing changing is your exp and cert amounts, which you can turn into better gear.

You cannot even lose anything in PS2.

If PS2 is a sandbox then WoW is too, because there are open world PvP areas which you can "build through conquest".

Shit, anything passes for a sandbox these days. I can see that most players have never, ever played a proper sandbox game in their lives. UO, EVE - start with those and maybe you will see the light.

Darkfall has a lot of sandbox elements.. but is it a pure sandbox probally not..

City building, house ownership, non restricted character development, player run econamy, open non intanced world.

PS2 has no sandbox elements really.. well not yet they are planning on adding some in at some point so we will have to wait and see..

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Honestly, both seem like Open World MMO PvP arenas, than Sandbox.

But how can you or anybody name one of them a Sandbox without naming the other a sandbox as well?

Darkfall has no sand at all. Just lots of base control, just like Planetside 2 has.

Apple and Oranges

PS2 is a Multiplayer Arena...........basically Battlefield with a huge map and more players.

You kill the Red players with a bunch of Blue players, conquer a hold and lose it 2 minutes later, rinse and repeat.

Darkfall although is not 100% sandbox it has politics and meaningful territory control, you control a territory until someone is able to kick you out, and while you are in control you get the benefits that comes with it, you control rare resources, and collect taxes from residents.

In order to be able to control a territory you need to forge alliances, hire mercenaries and have a good spy network.

In DF you can be a Warrior, a Spy, a Mercenary, a Crafter, a Trader, a Leader and a Forumfall Warrior, that's Sandbox enough IMO.........in PS2 you are just a Warrior that kills X to get Y

Originally posted by kalrhael

Originally posted by tollbooth
Do you people not understand the literal meaning behind the term "Sandbox"?  In a sanbox in the actual world you can build whatever you want using shovels/buckets or whatever.  That term is used to describe games where the world is built by the players instead of the dev's.  DF and PS2 are not even close to being sandboxes.  They are both just pvp arenas.

You're pigeon holing the sandbox into a crafting-based game. The sandbox is MUCH bigger than that one facet.

And PS2's world IS built by the players, it's built through conquest, which has tangible results that can effect the entire course of the battles.

Like I said, just because some games specialize on certain parts of the sandbox, doesn't make them any less of a sandbox.

I'm not pidgeon holing anything.  Sandbox games are games with player generated content.  The players make the world by not just crafting, but by being the drving force behind the life/story of the game.  In PS2 you don't even get to choose who your enemies are.