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General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: How Far is Too Far?

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54 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/11
Posts: 129

"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall". -Confucius

12/15/12 12:41:52 AM#41

F2P Games are the strip clubs of the gaming world.  You have some sexy woman telling you how great you are, then she says she's thirsty and asks for a drink.  So you buy her that $50 shot of watered down rum, thinking "okay, it's just one drink right"?  Then you buy her another one, then she starts saying how much she likes you and asks for your number.  So you keep buying her more drinks, then suddenly her friends swarm you because they are "jealous" of her getting all the attention from the one hot guy in the club.  Suddenly you are ringing up a thousand dollar tab.  

Of course they start telling you how much they care about you, saying and doing anything they can to squeeze every last dime out of you.  You walk out of the club that night feeling like the champion of the earth.  The next morning you wake up sober; that's when you suddenly realize that you maxed out your credit card and spent your entire paycheck in one night on a glorfied prosititute.  Thanks for making it easy software developers, to nickle and dime gamers to death for the sake of "entertainment".  

Oh don't worry about giving us your credit card info, we'll put this on your tab, just click that shiney golden button that's persistently flashing all over your screen as you play.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3224

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/15/12 4:19:13 AM#42

Agree with varoious comments: An Exercise titillation + frustration.

A lot of mmorpgs perhaps use F2P because the main competition is for your time and if 90% don't cough up and 10% do, as long as you get those 10% to play the F2P mmorpg then it's business. The problem is the dishonesty: Players are not trusted to pay and developers are investigating ways to maximise the game design to exploit players. At least with a good mmorpg that the devs can build a reciprocal relationship with the players, then there's chance for progress imo. So I'm not tempted by F2P, perhaps to try some mechanics of a game, but I can't help thinking the devs don't give 2 sh*ts if they are flogging their product to everyone for "free".

Great example!!


Originally posted by aktalat

Kid #1: I want to be a multi-class Half-Elf Fighter-Magic-User!

DM: Sorry, multi-class requires you pay me $5, only single-class start free.

Kid #2: Ok, I've rolled my character, now I'm going to buy my initial equipment!

DM: Sorry, you have no in-game currencey, $5 for every 100 gold pieces, pay up!



Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7845

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/15/12 9:59:47 AM#43

Profits generated by openly targeting the vulnerable...


Is this really where we have arrived at as a culture in the West?


F2P is a seedy and exploitative model that relies on lieing, manipulating, and hiding true costs behind fake currencies. We deserve better.


Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7845

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/15/12 10:05:44 AM#44
Originally posted by Reklaw
Originally posted by Zekiah


Just stop supporting these rip-off projects and things will change.


Seriously all this against F2P/Cashshop doesn't really make any sense.

Let's look at pure sub based games, don't people know there are thousands and thousands of 3rd party websites that offers items, gold and what not.


Of course people against cash shops know this Rek, but they like those no better then this legitimised RMT. These games should be designing/ policing out the ability to fuel these 3rd party shops, not just selling 'our' games out for a slice of the action.


I mean... what you suggest here means we should maybe decriminalise burglary and let the government tax it? I mean.. you are never gonna stop it right and think of all the tax that go into trying... better to not bother and take a cut right? We can use the money to pay our MPs bigger wages after all.



  User Deleted
12/15/12 4:03:35 PM#45
Is this an article or is it a summary leading to an article?  Once again, this feels like another introduction to content that doesn't exist...

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

12/17/12 2:01:03 AM#46
Originally posted by asmkm22
Is this an article or is it a summary leading to an article?  Once again, this feels like another introduction to content that doesn't exist...

you have to pay if you want to read the rest.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/07
Posts: 83

12/17/12 2:35:58 AM#47
Rather pay monthly then , go to a free to play game that has micro transactions , that way everyone is on the same playing field , unless the micro transactions are just for visual purposes then i'm fine with that, but if their is P2W in it , i'm gone.
yellowbeardd Xfire Miniprofile

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 7205

12/17/12 6:21:38 AM#48
Originally posted by orbitxo




Amazing how you can be so out of touch with reality.  Just some examples, go play Perfect World, or Runes of Magic and try to come back and say that.


Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 675

Try not! Do or do not. There is no try.

12/17/12 4:40:14 PM#49
Originally posted by Rommie10-284
Eventually the gambling aspect will land the frog in hot water.  From there, who knows what will happen.

Frog Legs anyone?!

But seriously.... if people want to pay for the advantage then the games will survive, if no one or very little pay then the game shutsdown and end of story. Live and let live I say, but this gamer is one that will not fall to the pay to win trap.

  User Deleted
12/17/12 5:41:39 PM#50
Originally posted by Ozmodan
Originally posted by orbitxo




Amazing how you can be so out of touch with reality.  Just some examples, go play Perfect World, or Runes of Magic and try to come back and say that.

Played both both on official and private servers, the only difference your so called P2W shop makes in-game  is ease, in Perfect World for example you can play completely free, grind through blood sweat and tears and get to the same place someone who paid to be there got to, it isn't about getting an unfair advantage it is about getting to the end-game faster. A clear cut example of this is Forsaken World where completely gearing your character with everything it needs would require months maybe even years of work considering drops and the fact you'd have to earn the in-game currency to trade for high level gems to embed into your items whereas someone who buys everything he needs from the shop could spend 2-3 months doing it, is it right? probably not, is it fair? yes, you both get to the same point with the same capabilities.

That being said there are crappy F2P models out there but remarkably most are from the western developers ( SWTOR being the shining turd of the bunch with its god awful excuse of a free to trial system ) as eastern developers learned a long, long time ago that making a F2P game with an insane grind which can be considerably reduced via a cash shop items while a bit of a ripoff is without a doubt more popular and a better system overall. Star Trek Online is a clear example of this (they took a crappy P2P system and shifted it over to a agreeable F2P system, you can get everything in-game regardless if you ever paid or not, it'll just take you longer if you didn't pay).


Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5731

12/18/12 5:15:45 AM#51

How many times on these forums have I and so many others spoken out against F2P and now it is everywhere. Now we are getting a reaction against P2W.

Wake up and smell the monetary coffee, if it makes money, then gaming companies will introduce it. In five years time we will be talking about how every MMO has P2W.

Our MMO's are becoming a travesty of what they once were and the desire to reach out to an ever wider demographic and rake in as many pennies as they can will only accelerate this trend.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 197

12/18/12 10:42:31 AM#52

Any form of in-game advantage for money is too far for me. I'll gladly pay a monthly fee for a MMO I enjoy playing, as long as what you achieve in the game is earned with time and effort spent playing the game.




Advanced Member

Joined: 9/28/04
Posts: 1843

12/18/12 11:15:08 AM#53

1. Not all F2P games are F2P, the industry has labeled everything without a subscription with F2P or B2P, most of them are freemium/paytrap.

2. P2W is mostly a myth.

3. Atlantica Online makes more money with their gambling aspect shop than most P2P games, that is why Nexon makes over 1 BILLION DOLLARS a year in profits mostly coming from their F2P games. AO has been doing it for over 5 years, it isnt a flash in the pan thing that is going to go away. It is not as much a part of the genre as subscriptions.

“I hope we shall its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson


Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 273

12/18/12 11:18:59 AM#54

Atlantica Online uses (or used, it's been some time since i played) a 'roulette' purchasing system


1 really nice item, 1 ok item and a dozen different crap 'regen/license' items .... most of the time you got the crap 'regen/licesne' item.


It's that route that I object to

Fine, sell the "Uber Sword of Ultimate Doom" for $

but when one person can spend $50 and get 5 of them, and you can spend $500 and get 0, it's in my mind fraudulent.

and yes i know, these companies have highly priced lawyers who say it's a valid business tactic

but are these companies also paying the relavant 'gambling taxes and licenses' in the various countries they operate in ? because i seriously doubt it.


If a game is worth playing, people will pay subs.

people won't pay subs for a substandard contentless rehash of yesterdays flameofthemonth system

but right now as i look at the huge list of games in development or that have released recently

they are for the most part substandard contentless rehashes of "games of last tuesday!!"


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