Heavy PS1 vet here; I love everything about PS2's easy to understand cash-shop. 

My defintion of p2w is not yours. I believe F2P's should offer shortcuts to paying players. PS2 does not offer subbers more health, better shield rates and ammo capacity--so this is okay. a F2P'er can go toe-to-toe with a subber and have an equal advantage; that is where this game isn't P2W.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.

Now if you sub you earn certs faster.

But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.

Now if you sub you earn certs faster.

But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

 

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

 

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

 BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.

Now if you sub you earn certs faster.

But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

 

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

 

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

As I said; Shortcuts. These items are still available to players using in-game currency. Had these been exclusive to physical currency; it'd be considered pay-to-win in my book.

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.

Now if you sub you earn certs faster.

But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

 

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

 

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

 BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour

silly minded player

kdr is not everything

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Originally posted by saurus123

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Originally posted by ShakyMo You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing. Now if you sub you earn certs faster. But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

---

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

 

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

 

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

---

Oh and rocket pods IMO are the only severe imbalancing issue at the moment, lib guns aren't that expensive, I bought a couple already and they're only 100 certs each and upgraded them a little, the Zepher is bound to be nerfed soon anyways- all the rocket pod spammers are getting tired of being killed by 20+ AA MAXs so they're going with Libs now.

The moment players are breaking down certs per hour, is the moment they shouldn't be playing the game. 

I play the game with a 200 man outfit, and completely enjoy the game. I don't bother looking at my cert gain. I just log on each day, check my certs and look for viable upgrades.

And im still having a blast.

lol OP  I didn't even read past I have never played the game but its pay 2 win.

Your post is ignorant you haven't played it but judge it based on what you read or think you know.  Well you're wrong.   The fact is your opinion was already formed without even seeing what you can buy in the cash shop because you say you have no desire to play a f2p game.    A company should invets 20-30 mil + in a new game charge nothing for it and just let you play it for free with no cash shop ?    If you ever form an MMO company please warn your investors of your brilliant business model.

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by saurus123

Originally posted by ShakyMo
You can't "just buy" though. All the things that make you more powerfull are paid for with certs. And you earn certs by playing.

Now if you sub you earn certs faster.

But you can't just go into the game splash say £100 and then have some sort of uber character. It just doesn't work like that.

no all things make you more powerfull are bought with $$

 

rocket pods = $$

tank guns = $$

rocket launchers = $$

lib gun = $$

these things make you kill alot of players

ofc you can buy them with certs but to get 1000 certs how long it will take you if an avarege player gets 20 certs per hour

 

then the upgrades that can reach 1000 certs alone

 BS, i got a 0.7 kdr and i make over 60 certs an hour

silly minded player

kdr is not everything

And you completely missed what he was trying to say. He only mentioned that his kdr isn't that good and he still makes 60 certs an hour.

All right, for ANYONE who hasn't made up his mind yet, understand this, coming from an August Beta tester.

If ANYONE is buying guns, is because hes smart enough to save those certs he has to invest in the certification system which in reality fortifies their characters AND the guns he bought. Or the ones he didn't. Jesus, for an example, Im a light assault and I bought some guns. The AC-X11 isn't more powerful then the stock gun (AF-19 Mercenary). Yes, it hits like a GOD DANM TRUCK, but has 10 less bullets then the stock weapon, LESS Accuracy, and HIGHER vertical recoil.

As a matter of fact, there are a LOT of subscribers and Station cash buyers that use those stock weapons because they are superior in every way compared to others. TR and VS can tell you a lot about that. 5 out 8 TR LAs use the TRAC5 and 7 out of 8 TR HA use the Carv 9. In the VS, Almost EVERY HA uses the Orion and LAs use the Solstice. These 4 weaposn are Stock weapons and they work wonderfully. I bought my AC-X11 because I didn't want to waste 1000 certs to obtain it without payment (and believe me, it ain't as hard to get as one thinks, people just need to understand better the game in order to see how to farm certs faster).

A PAY2WIN system would be to have a weapon that is clearly a superior weapon for cash money sale only. If you want to get it, you can play A LOT and still don't spend a dime. Yes, for people who are new to the game, it WILL take a while to understand everything and be a better player, but once you get the hang of it, you'll see that.

I'm an average player, with an outfit of my own making, with a lot of good people. We are all average players, but due to the fact that I understand the game better, I can make everyone understand what needs to be done and go after objectives that earn quite some Certificates. I normally do between 30~50 in 1 hour of gameplay, between 4~5 gameplay a day. That 150~250 certs a day. And I'm not even a very good shot. 

So tell me, what do you think is more practical? To actually go and spend a 1000 certs for 1 single weapon (one you might later find out isn't a waepon you like that much) or spend some dollars (BTW, tripple Cash 21st december) and use ALL those certs in your payed unlocks? 

I'd never spend a certification to buy a 1000 certifications weapon, for they are a pain to get. But that doesn't mean you'll be useless with a stock weapon. You kill with those high leveled players as well, quite easy also. And once you ammount those certs, you'll see that stock weapon becoming EASIER to use, not Better to kill, for YOU are getting better at killing.

So stop this BS of Pay 2 Win. People who are buying stuff know what to buy thanks to beta and they are easily counterable. Im saying this, not because SOE payed me, but because is with MORE players that the game is fun. Damn, I get lots of kill with my Stock VS HA, due to smart playing. THIS is what makes the difference in this game. If you expect to RAMBO anything, you're gonna have a bad time. If you learn the game, you won't have to spend a dime in it and will have a blast.

Learning. That's what keeps players in PS2.

I have not purchased anything with money, I have only purchased a red dot for my starter weapon with certs and I am having a blast!  I am sitting on almost 1000 cert points to spend but can not decide which class to use them on since three of them are so much fun to play.

I dont feel this game is pay to win in any way, shape or form.  I do feel this game caters to skill and the more skilled players can specialize in certs that fit their playstyle.  I think skill should be rewarded and this game does it in spades.  No cookie cutter classes, you can be what you want and spending money does not give you any real advantage.  I kill people twice my BR level and with purchased weapons.  I see no advantage to using real money in this game.

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Originally posted by William12
lol OP  I didn't even read past I have never played the game but its pay 2 win.

 

Your post is ignorant you haven't played it but judge it based on what you read or think you know.  Well you're wrong.   The fact is your opinion was already formed without even seeing what you can buy in the cash shop because you say you have no desire to play a f2p game.    A company should invets 20-30 mil + in a new game charge nothing for it and just let you play it for free with no cash shop ?    If you ever form an MMO company please warn your investors of your brilliant business model.

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[mod edit]

[mod edit] There is nothing in this game that is pay to win. When they start letting people buy certs with real money then I will gladly say it has turned into a pay to win game.  The real issue that I think people are complaining about is that you can buy weapons and such with station cash now where as the f2p person has to wait till he gets enough certs together to be able to afford one. Is it an advantage? I think I would say it slightly is. The only real advantage is the person that bought the item can use his certs to help make it better where as the person that saved up to buy the item with certs now has to build up more certs to make it better. Pay to win? No. Pay to get some things quicker, yes.

Originally posted by Dkamanus
...

Learning. That's what keeps players in PS2.

I'd say learn what's getting players leaving PS2.  It has it's problems.

As for the rest - many are side-grades, some are pretty essential to pull of many things.

Example of non-sidegrades:

A2A and A2G rocket pods.  *NOT* side-grades.  The A2A make a huge difference in air-to-air combat.  The ground pounder models can still work in A2A (I've done this) but really shine when trashing ground.

We won't go into the Dalton and Zephyr but I think you'd agree they aren't some kind of "side-grade" either on those gunships.

Both lock-on launchers - AV and AA for the HA class.  The "dual purpose" is 2/3rds the damage of these and it takes 6 lock ons to take out a liberator class gunship.  That is over 8 to knock that ship down with the dual-purpose ones that were just introduced.

Then we have that second burster for a Max - it's pretty eseential for anti-air.  If you run VS, that second "grenade launcher" is of amazing value.  2 shotguns as NC...  So on and so forth.  Not really side-grades more specializing for a given task and that can by VERY important - especilally with how OP Air is in this game.

The "S" series guns aren't "hitting harder" but offer one hell of a lot more options than the basic model.  Seriously - nobody would call that a "side grade" when you can fit grenade launchers and the like on them.  It's not a bad thing but if you want to maximize options - this route is good.

Shotguns... That opens up their use across ALL your infantry classes.  Yes, once you get a shotgun - every class that can use a shotgun can use that gun.

As for moving on from the game...

The OP nature of air...  I dearly love the "teamwork" reply.  So everyone *EXCEPT AIR* needs to use teamwork - not to defeat them, but to drive them off...  Lovely idea of teamwork isn't it?

Also that is an entirely different portion of the game.  Helicopter simulator is quite different than infantry - far beyond the differences between infantry and the vehicles in the game.  It is a different type of game-play yet one that you *WILL* need around to play.

Then we have the poor attack vs defense rewards model.  Indefensible bases due to how many holes in the defenses.  15% bonus for nothing is still nothing and trying to defend locations where it's much easier to spy them out for how you will approach vs actually trying to defend them...

That's a problem.

I could detail them but I think you know what I mean.  The air portion is a different game mixed in and way over the top for balance between the other portions which people do seem to enjoy.

Having so much splash damage from explosions is also rediculous - I can't count how many times I've been killed inside a building from tanks and such pounding the outside of the building - without doing any damage to it.  Not just builidings but any obstruction.  Splash often goes through the terrain.

Then we have the hacks and bugs - the guys getting inside walls, aimbots and such. 

Toss on the pod deployment being 8 out of 10 times a death sentence...

Adding it all up it gets frustrating and only by hanging in a "platoon" that is more interested in flipping near-empty bases, vs actually fighting other large groups, you end up with an introduction that seems interesting and fun then slips towards annoying and frustrating.

Oh, and with some 50+ levels across chars - and tossing some funds SOE's way - with literally over a thousand kills and deaths...  I'm finding it hard to justify logging back in to play. 

"Ok, time to deploy.  Ok I'm dead again, now let's pop at a spawn point...  Ok... Ohh - enemy air, they win - find a new spot."  "Ok, it's our air - we win..."  "Look, another empty base to flip." - driving off, you see it being flipped back but who cares?  Better to go to the next base and double back to take it again *AFTER* flipping the next empty spot.

Infantry fights are fun and exciting but they aren't that common compared to butchering of individuals/small groups by large forces or air/tank farming and that gets old pretty fast but what "vets" in the game seem to prefer.