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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why is there not an MMO that you can solo 100% of everything?

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  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

12/18/12 6:11:28 AM#221
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by LadyEuphei
This thread should be closed on a mmo forum. This is rediculous. No mmo should be soloable, it is just AGH! I need to breathe...seriously this idea is rediculous and it makes no sense. If you want to solo and be by yourself go play a multiplayer card game in a corner with your imaginary friends.... 

This is a good example how narrow minded, burned out and jaded we have become as a community.

This person has never ever considered that the "soloability" could take , say, 10 times as long as the grouping, actually ENCOURAGING the grouping instead of FORCING it as the new mmos do and why everyone behaves like Dfense inside a pug raid.

Because in this twisted twilight zone we operate these days, the prolonged time required would be UNFAIR to all the soloers for some reason not even the soloers understand.

Flame on!

:)

 Your form of "encouragement" is what people would refer to as "forcing".

Compared to what exactly? Raids?

Flame on!

:)

If grouping is far more efficient than soloing, people would argue that this is equivalent to "forcing" them to group. 

The efficiency is not given, you have to share with your groupmates.

And sure, if you have problems weighting the pros and cons of having the "hassle" with other individuals, you can go to the area of "I want to be a good mother, but i also want to raid, so, how do i make my toddler eat his dinner later so that i can raid?", but you will have to travel in that swamp of stupidity on your own.

Flame on!

:)

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

  countdogula

Novice Member

Joined: 5/08/07
Posts: 3

12/18/12 7:14:38 AM#222

Im mostly with the OP here. I would like to see a lot more solo content in MMO's and single player games just do not meet what I am after. I like the MMO experience because i want to play in a truly dynamic world and have the option to meet and group up with people if the mood strikes me. I am an adult and am not horribly social and do not want to play with the vast majority of people out there, especially in a game like WoW that attracts so many kids. This isn't meant to disparage those people in any way, but grouping with them is not my idea of a good time.

 

I really enjoyed EVE because I could be a really viable player all on my own, I am not sure if they intended that people could solo well, especially in a PVP environment, but people could. You really had to choose your fights and be wary, but it was very possible on many levels. I would love to see a game like that in the fantasy genre. WoW can be a lot of fun for me until I hit the brick wall of max level and have to start grouping to progress, this isn't to say that I never group up, some times I do a lot, but the last time I played the whole dungeon finder experience was absolutely awful at max level.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1445

12/18/12 7:59:33 AM#223
Originally posted by lorewise

This discussion has created some interesting questions. In a recent interview with Gamebreaker, Greg Street the lead system designer for World Of Warcraft admitted that 25 man raiding suffers from logistical problems and most guilds / raid groups are adopting the 10 man set up. Because of this they feel like they have to incentivize 25 man raids by having better loot.

This makes me wonder, how many people actually like group content that requires more than 5-10 people? Do they enjoy it for that reason? If the biggest MMO in the world feels like their players will only play through content if the rewards are better than what's available in other content, what does that say about the game? What does it say about the players?

 

TLDR: If you really enjoy group content, would you still enjoy it if the in game rewards were no better than what could be achieved without a group?

I think we all know the answer would be no, grouping would not nearly be as inviting if it didn't offer more rewards.

Usually people that want grouping are quick to talk about effort being greater deserves greater rewards. Then they will claim you don't want to work for it or put in your time if you won't group. That's when it becomes a tiny bit offensive. Solo people aren't mandated to login for 10 minutes then leave. The accusation is that you must be casual and non-chalant because you are solo so doubly undeserving of anything that would take time. I've put in way too many hours solo to be considered either of those. On the reverse, I have seen many people say they don't play x game because they couldn't find a group. That's why the group lovers want high population in games and the solo-ers will settle down in low pop games as long as the gameplay is engaging. Once I see someone ragging on a game because it doesn't have millions of people... automatically I think, there's someone that can't find anything to do on a rainy day.

 

I still think it has a lot to do with our real life personalities so we can't change each other any more than we can change what food the other person dislikes but we can agree to disagree and accept each other as different instead of "playing wrong".

  daltanious

Elite Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1775

12/18/12 8:54:19 AM#224

By large measure I prefer solo oriented games. I would not care playing wow, swtor, ... in single player version if available. 

As for group content, people have endgame.

  xAPOCx

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 891

12/18/12 9:31:19 AM#225
Originally posted by daltanious

By large measure I prefer solo oriented games. I would not care playing wow, swtor, ... in single player version if available. 

As for group content, people have endgame.

Think you missed the point of this thread.

  DropDeadFred

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/12
Posts: 5

12/18/12 10:45:02 AM#226
I just watched a video on U tube about Elder Scrolls Online. They say that  you will be able to go solo. Anyone that has played this game knows how you can go where you want and do anythig you want. This is still going to be the same when it goes online. I cant wait for this to come out next year... :-)
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12255

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/18/12 10:53:17 AM#227
Originally posted by Sheista

It's been mentioned several times in the thread, but Asheron's Call was entirely soloable.

They don't want to hear it.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12255

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/18/12 11:03:21 AM#228
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by xAPOCx

The idea of a full on MMORPG that is 100% solo centric is laughable at best. Even the crap MMos that are being pumped out now, as easy as they are, still require the best stuff to come from harder content. ( Group content )

Thou dost laugh at UO?

I never played UO. Is the game 100% soloable? No group content what so ever? Everything thats ingame can be attained completely through 100% solo gameplay? Any pvp and or rewards from pvp

Not being a smartass. I really want to know.

Nothing requires a group to complete. Then again, UO, Second Life, There, vMTV and other MMOs with a virtual world emphasis are about creating and building a character that takes part in a game world with other characters. The only coded part about interaction is tools to support how players interact. In those MMOs there is no such thing as 'grouping' because it's a natural part of social behaviour. The term itself is ridiculous and shows a major issue with the development of today's MMOs. Interaction - social or otherwise - is done both at the level of the players interest and voluntarily.

Most MMOs are just about killing small mobs to be able to kill bigger mobs to be able to kill bigger mobs, etc, etc. They are shallow experiences with few, if any, tools to support player interaction.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

12/18/12 11:06:11 AM#229
Originally posted by pkerguy
Simply because it will beat the whole purpose of playing an MMO..that's why single player games exist..

As if you know what the purpose of everyone for playing an MMO is.

What if someone wants to solo adventure, then trade with massive number of players on the AH? He can't do it in a single player game, can he?

  Thorbrand

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/04
Posts: 1217

12/18/12 11:08:06 AM#230
Average player should not ever be able to solo in a MMO unless they are grinding on lower lvl mobs. Part of why they are currently broken.
  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

12/18/12 11:10:36 AM#231
Originally posted by DropDeadFred
I just watched a video on U tube about Elder Scrolls Online. They say that  you will be able to go solo. Anyone that has played this game knows how you can go where you want and do anythig you want. This is still going to be the same when it goes online. I cant wait for this to come out next year... :-)

Sorry to burst your bubble, but you will NOT be able to go whereever you want in TESO like the SPG games.

Almost 2/3 of the game area will be closed off to opposing realms (because there were closed off realms in the SPG games, right?), so the only way you get to see those places, is to play 2 other toons.

Plus, the realms/classes are race locked, to if you want to play anything but the pre-selected affiliations, you are out of luck (which is the polar opposite of the ES SPG games, where could play whatever toon you wanted and do anything).

The names and places from the ES world might be in there, but most of the gameplay and gameplay philosophies, are not.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12255

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

12/18/12 12:27:55 PM#232
Originally posted by Thorbrand
Average player should not ever be able to solo in a MMO unless they are grinding on lower lvl mobs. Part of why they are currently broken.

One of the many reasons why this group is hard to please when it comes to MMOs. There is a constant call for a world their character can live in, but built around arbitrary rules that humans normally do not - and in some cases cannot - live by.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/18/12 12:36:48 PM#233
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

  Gigachip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/10
Posts: 35

12/18/12 12:55:38 PM#234

I think there should be a MMO where you can solo EVERYTHING(or partially). Though, should you get it at the same rate of people who group, I don't think so. Some benefit should be given to those who decide to group. Example: Group takes 1-2 days to get items, solo takes 4-6 days. Or even make it where if you want the BEST gear grouping is needed.

Gigachip Xfire Miniprofile
  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 530

12/18/12 12:57:15 PM#235
Originally posted by TheScavenger

I'm not talking about having companions (npc or player)...but one character being able to solo 100% of everything. Now...hear me out...

 

Many MMOs, especially themeparks...they in a way...very much mislead you. You can spen levels 1 to 85 (as an example) being able to do EVERYTHING solo. Suddenly you hit max level...and the game had the bait...then it switched...suddenly there is very little content you can solo. You can only do raids if you are in a group, or if the raids become out of date (and that takes a while)...only very few (if any) classes are able to solo (when, while leveling, every class can solo everything). 

 

MMOs are already on the path of becoming quick to play, cheap and more solo oriented. Log on, do raid/dungeon finder...play for 15-30 min and accomplish a lot. Not relying on spamming chat "lfg" "lfg"...15 minutes later... "lfg". And many MMOs are very quickly relying on the player WANTING to group, and not feeling FORCED to group. WoW went far down this path, but to do new raids...still need a group and (last I saw), new raids aren't part of the raid finder. SWTOR was on the way to this path, but found voice acting and adding to the story was much more expensive than adding raids that forced you to group.

But you can still group up while leveling in WoW and themeparks, doing dungeons and what not (that are still solable with certain classes)...if you want to...not if you are forced to.

 

You do understand what the basic concept of an MMO is compared to a single player?

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 583

12/18/12 1:12:07 PM#236
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

becaues in that design grouping is pointless when you can do it by yourself,  and if the rewards are the same the mob must be the same toughness so fighting it with a group is overkill if you can do it on your own. which really isnt fun

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/18/12 1:20:14 PM#237
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

becaues in that design grouping is pointless when you can do it by yourself,  and if the rewards are the same the mob must be the same toughness so fighting it with a group is overkill if you can do it on your own. which really isnt fun

 Well it looks like a group kills it quicker with less hassle, and thus gets more xp.  Doesn't sound too pointless to me. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 583

12/18/12 1:30:46 PM#238
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

becaues in that design grouping is pointless when you can do it by yourself,  and if the rewards are the same the mob must be the same toughness so fighting it with a group is overkill if you can do it on your own. which really isnt fun

 Well it looks like a group kills it quicker with less hassle, and thus gets more xp.  Doesn't sound too pointless to me. 

thats not group content, thats single player content played in a group. not the same

anyways, on the the tread, unless they find it worth making an entirely solo game it will never happen. and if they do it will no longer be an mmorpg but a new genre

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/18/12 1:36:01 PM#239
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

becaues in that design grouping is pointless when you can do it by yourself,  and if the rewards are the same the mob must be the same toughness so fighting it with a group is overkill if you can do it on your own. which really isnt fun

 Well it looks like a group kills it quicker with less hassle, and thus gets more xp.  Doesn't sound too pointless to me. 

thats not group content, thats single player content played in a group. not the same

anyways, on the the tread, unless they find it worth making an entirely solo game it will never happen. and if they do it will no longer be an mmorpg but a new genre

 Thats just a difference of opinion, not in reality or fact.  Group content is content that is designed for groups yes, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of doing it slower/longer/more carefully/more thought as a solo player. 

In EQ and WoW people solo dungeons they have outleveled, that is still group content that they have chosen to do solo.   I don't see any difference between that and what is discussed here. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  st4t1ck

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/10
Posts: 583

12/18/12 1:52:25 PM#240
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

I assumed that your  "10 times as long as the grouping," was under the condition that everything else was equal, which would suggest grouping to be far more efficient than soloing, which would be "forced grouping". Evidently, I was wrong in assuming that.

And what is not equal?

The mob has 10k gold, if you kill it solo, you get 10k, if you kill it in a group of 10, you get 1k, but you can kill him 10 times, with less hassle (groupmates tank,heal,buff, rez, regenerate mana).

Flame on!

:)

becaues in that design grouping is pointless when you can do it by yourself,  and if the rewards are the same the mob must be the same toughness so fighting it with a group is overkill if you can do it on your own. which really isnt fun

 Well it looks like a group kills it quicker with less hassle, and thus gets more xp.  Doesn't sound too pointless to me. 

thats not group content, thats single player content played in a group. not the same

anyways, on the the tread, unless they find it worth making an entirely solo game it will never happen. and if they do it will no longer be an mmorpg but a new genre

 Thats just a difference of opinion, not in reality or fact.  Group content is content that is designed for groups yes, but that doesn't eliminate the possibility of doing it slower/longer/more carefully/more thought as a solo player. 

In EQ and WoW people solo dungeons they have outleveled, that is still group content that they have chosen to do solo.   I don't see any difference between that and what is discussed here. 

The difference is that its all level based,  just because you can go back and do 50 levels later doesnt make it solo content,  the content was created with  a group of level apropriate people to complete it.  

most of the time when you outlevel content by a certain number of levels you gain nothing from doing it anyway

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