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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » In its quest to quickly push out a free-to-play model for its flagship MMO, has BioWare burned all players

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37 posts found
  exwin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/08/07
Posts: 225

12/17/12 2:23:13 PM#21

While I'm not saying I agree with all the decisions that were made concerning SWToR, nor do I currently play it, I did play it and enjoyed it very much.

I've payed alot more for alot less as far as mmo's go. My only real complaint is the lack of end game content. After you do your dailies and make it through all the class stories, you run out of stuff to do.

I loved the companions, you really do feel like a sith badass at the end of the story. I have mostly fond memories of the game.

Inversely, I would rather not level another charactor, which is why I don't stil play it.

If BW were to pop out another mmo, I would give it a look.

  Shazknee

Novice Member

Joined: 9/28/10
Posts: 85

12/17/12 5:31:52 PM#22
Originally posted by Quicksand

Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

 

The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

 

It's pretty simple.

 

when you fork out overprice for a collector's edition, only to find out that you bought an unfinished game, with no chance of a refund, you'll feel pretty screwed over, ofcourse the overwhelming "VIP" area and the stuffed vendor with several pages of vanity items were obviously worth the price! heck atleast I got a CD with some crap music, that they offered for free download a few days later, awesome!

 

Then they have the nerve to make a "f2p", spam you with e-mails about cartel points if you subscribe btw.

If someone walked up to me irl, and told me I could have a turd in the face FOR FREE!!!!!11 I'd tell him to sod off, and probably warn others about him aswell.

 

I paid a huge amount of money to pay an completely unfinished game for... 9 days, it's the most expensive gaming experience ever, heck I played Warhammer for 5 months, and that game was god awfull, even Conan kept me playing for longer.

 

Sure, I choose to buy the game, and the noone forced me to do so, but I'm never touching any Bioware stuff again, and I succefully kept several friends from buying the game, but in the end, Bioware burned of a fairly loyal customer, I honestly hope that their game and company will crash and burn, people who run companies, who's sole purpose if to fool you into buying something that arent what you were lead to belive it is, does not have my sympathy whatsoever, and I'll honestly put on a tiny smile the day that POS company goes down the toilet.

 

And no, I'm not gonna care what thoose desperate Bioware employees have to respond, if I were you I'd jump ship before it sinks.

 

  AG-Vuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/04
Posts: 831

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Oh, I see it's too late to help you.

12/17/12 6:44:49 PM#23

Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

 

That it's biased and meant to bash EA ? It succeeds.

Or perhaps the author misses the point ?

Perhaps EA would rather have you as a sub. Often people criticize a game for certain aspects and don't care for others. Some people love and enjoy pure PvE, some PvP. EA is basically saying we can accomadate those that fall in that category. How about the casual player, hey we can do something there too. Ulitmately, they'd rather have you pay a sub then cherry pick what you'll play. It's more geared for players that are not really commited , but want to explore. It really isn't a true F2P , in case you missed that part. It's an extensive trial.

P.S : I don't feel burned. If I were a non-commited person who expected the game on a platter and free run through every aspect of the game as some F2P do then , probably I would. I haven't seen indications of P2W , yet , but there are signs and it concerns me, as in other F2P.

  Thebigbopper

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/04
Posts: 114

12/17/12 9:16:34 PM#24

 Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

 SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

 Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

 You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

 

  Fly666monkey

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/11
Posts: 140

12/17/12 9:27:59 PM#25
Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

 

That it's biased and meant to bash EA ? It succeeds.

Or perhaps the author misses the point ?

Perhaps EA would rather have you as a sub. 

If getting people to sub to play the game had been working for them, they would not have gone F2P in the first place.

 It's an extensive trial.

Considering that the new F2P system is even MORE restrictive than the trial was, with the sole exception of being able to do story content all the way to 50, I think even calling it a trial is being genrous.

 

  Quicksand

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 605

12/18/12 2:57:03 AM#26
Originally posted by DeaconX
Originally posted by Quicksand

Threads like this always puzzle me, how can BIO have burned anyone by offering something free? They didn't GIVE you enough FREE stuff so they somehow wronged you?

 

The entitlement mentality of this generation is mind blowing.

You misunderstand.  Personally, I couldn't care less about 'free'.  I'd happily pay a monthly sub for a QUALITY game.  SWTOR may have players but it doesn't really make it an amazing game - not anywhere near the game I'm fairly certain most Star Wars fans wanted it to be, anyway.

 

For me, it's just a disappointment.  They had all the ingredients to make something truly special.  The only thing they did well, was the multiplayer storytelling. Aside from that, I'd say SWTOR missed the mark.

 

It's all those poor design decisions, then the further bad decisions such as HOW they chose to implement the F2P stuff that just disappoints.

 

I can't help but wonder what could have been, if the money and resources were given to 'the right' people.

I misunderstood nothing. The title of the thread suggest that BIOs free offering somehow burned players. I simple pointed out the fact that statements like that puzzle me. I have a current sub, the game plays great for me, I enjoy it and have no complaints. 

 

My wife does not sub anymore, her account is a free account. The very idea that they are not offering anything free as another reply said is blind to the truth. They may not offer what you want free, but if you can log in without paying anything (my wife can), thats free, if you can complete a quest without paying anything (my wife can), thats free.

 

The sub model they currently have is no different than any other MMO. Thus, they have not burned anyone, their free option does not in any way force anyone to buy anything in order to play their game, thus, burned no one.

 

The only people that think BIO is somehow required to GIVE them something for FREE is nothing more than the intitlement mentallity that is infecting our entire world. No one owes you anything, if you dont like the free options you have in this game then don't play it, BIO has in no way burned you because you don't want to take advantage of a free option they gave you (no matter how worthless you may find that option)

 

If you want more hotbars then sub to their game, they are not required to GIVE them to you for FREE. Want to complete a quest thats not part of their free option? then sub to their game, they are not required to GIVE it to you for FREE.

 

If you don't want to sub to the game, then don't, you are not required to. see how that works, they can't make you buy their product, you can't make them give it to you for free. Thats how it should be. You have not wronged them by not subbing to their game, its your choice. They have not wronged or burned you for not giving you something for FREE. Its their choice.

www.90and9.net
www.prophecymma.com

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

12/18/12 11:49:03 AM#27
Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

 

That it's biased and meant to bash EA ? It succeeds.

Or perhaps the author misses the point ?

Perhaps EA would rather have you as a sub. Often people criticize a game for certain aspects and don't care for others. Some people love and enjoy pure PvE, some PvP. EA is basically saying we can accomadate those that fall in that category. How about the casual player, hey we can do something there too. Ulitmately, they'd rather have you pay a sub then cherry pick what you'll play. It's more geared for players that are not really commited , but want to explore. It really isn't a true F2P , in case you missed that part. It's an extensive trial.

P.S : I don't feel burned. If I were a non-commited person who expected the game on a platter and free run through every aspect of the game as some F2P do then , probably I would. I haven't seen indications of P2W , yet , but there are signs and it concerns me, as in other F2P.

I do not find it biased or bashing EA. What is said is pretty accurate, and he even says the game can be played for free, and he still plays it, and has not written the game off either. I think you are misinterpreting it as bias/bashing through the tone of the article, which he states was don e deliberately to make it more interesting, however it probably touches the nerves of fans. I Have fallen into that trap myself - The first read through can seem negative, and bashing, but read it again a couple of times, and it makes more sense, and I do not know why I thought it seemed negative at all.

The F2P here seems to be more aimed at getting more money out of subbers than making a viable restrictive game within F2P. It is the only MMO where you have keep buying weekly passes to content, whereas other F2P MMOs, you unlock it and pay the once. They even allow you to sell stuff from the market on the GTN, so subbers can buy stuff for others.

Plus as the other peson said above, before F2P, the trial to Level 15 was less restrictive, and  gave a better view of what the game is like. Then if people like what they see, they sub.

F2P is meant to let people play parts of the game without having access to all of it, but even just to get parts of it you end up being restricted even if paying the equivalent of $15 via the CM, instead of subbing.

They still have not yet allowed more char slots to be purchased, which prevents me from playing and mainly ex players who probably would have created at least 2 chars by the time they quit. It is coming and increasing to 6, but it is taking ages and was known before the Life Day fluff. I have over 3000 CCC waiting to be spent, with the first thing being an extra char slot, which I can not yet buy, so as I have that many CC subbing is just a waste of money. I wish they would hurry up, as it locks you out of the game.

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

12/18/12 11:55:22 AM#28
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

 SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

 Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

 You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

 

F2P has only just been added, so is seeing a new influx of players. The game has not really changed much since it was launched that would keep people playing, so in  a few months it will start to dry up again, as it did before.

Why would people stay and play now, when they did not before?

It might not drop as fast due to F2P, but constantly paying for stuff even as a subber is going to take its toll, and other F2P games do F2P far much better.

Then when Makeb launches it may bring people back again, but once that is done, they will be gone again.

  Thebigbopper

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/12/04
Posts: 114

12/18/12 1:40:28 PM#29
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

 SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

 Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

 You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

 

F2P has only just been added, so is seeing a new influx of players. The game has not really changed much since it was launched that would keep people playing, so in  a few months it will start to dry up again, as it did before.

Why would people stay and play now, when they did not before?

It might not drop as fast due to F2P, but constantly paying for stuff even as a subber is going to take its toll, and other F2P games do F2P far much better.

Then when Makeb launches it may bring people back again, but once that is done, they will be gone again.

   Yeah i guess all Star Wars games end up disappointing and get people leaving them aye?

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

12/18/12 1:58:53 PM#30

People who paid absolutely nothing for the game have no grounds to cry and moan about not being able to fully take pleasure with the game.

Its quiet simple. If you want to play the game to its fullest, you got to pay.

As it stands right now, all the freeloaders do is take take take, without any give. And no matter what Bioware does, these people wont pay a dime.

  superniceguy

Novice Member

Joined: 2/17/07
Posts: 2278

NGE, LOTRO, STO, KOTOR, Lego Star Wars > NGE 2 (SWTOR). SWG>ALL. Above hopefully subject to change.

12/18/12 2:05:28 PM#31
Originally posted by Thebigbopper
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

 SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

 Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

 You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

 

F2P has only just been added, so is seeing a new influx of players. The game has not really changed much since it was launched that would keep people playing, so in  a few months it will start to dry up again, as it did before.

Why would people stay and play now, when they did not before?

It might not drop as fast due to F2P, but constantly paying for stuff even as a subber is going to take its toll, and other F2P games do F2P far much better.

Then when Makeb launches it may bring people back again, but once that is done, they will be gone again.

   Yeah i guess all Star Wars games end up disappointing and get people leaving them aye?

A lot of Star wars games end up disappointing. Ob-Wan did not exactly sell the Xbox at launch, Halo did, but KOTOR did later. If you mean SWG, it kept its full 26 servers for 6 years, SWTOR kept its full 200 servers for 6 months, and now has less than SWG.  SWG had many systems in the game that kept people playing, particulalry the crafting professions, and 32 professions. Its uniqueness also kept a special place in players hearts. People would leave SWG and go play other games, but other games never gave what SWG had, and people returned. SWTOR is pretty much like WOW and all the clones out there, and its uniqueness is the VO story which once all done, there is nothing unique to stay for, and WOW and all its clones, end up doing a better job, so not much reason to return.

SWTOR had 2 million buy the game at launch, and was left with 500K subs after about 6 months, with 1.5 million people ditching the game that is biggest drop in a short time frame for any MMO. If SWTOR was even haf decent, most people would have stayed longer. There is not that many people who are stupid and just buy the game, and want nothing to do with it 3-6 months later.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2242

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/18/12 2:13:26 PM#32

This is not an article.

At best it is an editorial.

It is more likely more akin to a tl:dr forum post.

The analysis is not backed up by sourcres, but rather how the author 'felt'.

A journalist will actually formulate their opinion based on the evidence out there. This is stating his personal opinions as widely accepted facts without referencing any sources at all.

Even good editorials will say, 'i think this because of this' this guys mode is, "i think this, so there.'

  negativf4kk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 374

12/18/12 2:59:02 PM#33
Originally posted by Thebigbopper

 Just the other day on The Harbinger server i saw 4 instances of fleet and normally there is 2 or 3 in peak times. A lot of people seem to be happy playing it as it is now.  The article is highly biased and pathetic enough that he offers himself to save the game basically.

 SWTOR did some good things and some bad ones but did bring some innovations. Companions is one of the best things ever done on an MMO, the story is brilliant and modding equipment is pretty decent too. The biggest let down as far as i am concerned is space on rails, that was just bullshit!

 Some of the things he says are just plain incorrect but thats explained in the comments on his site.

 You get to play the story and being able to do that without paying is very generous as far as i am concerned.......anything else is a real bonus.....

 

Companions was in GW1 so not so new.

Freeloaders will play the story and leave.

Lets see how many subscribers there gonna be in spring. I think even less then they had before going F2P.

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  User Deleted
12/19/12 6:39:51 AM#34

Yes, with latest con-job, things that were supposed to be free (and are free in any other MMO for subscribers) now have additional cost on top of sub.

So its definately obvious they burned the subscribers.

And ive already said F2P isnt aimed at getting new players (rentention rate in SWTOR is one of the worst) but to milk current subscribers all the way :)

  AG-Vuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/04
Posts: 831

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
Oh, I see it's too late to help you.

12/19/12 10:48:05 AM#35
Originally posted by superniceguy
Originally posted by AG-Vuk

Soooooooooo, the point of the article is ? 

 

The F2P here seems to be more aimed at getting more money out of subbers than making a viable restrictive game within F2P. It is the only MMO where you have keep buying weekly passes to content, whereas other F2P MMOs, you unlock it and pay the once. They even allow you to sell stuff from the market on the GTN, so subbers can buy stuff for others. 

Absolutely incorrect. Subs have access to all parts. A subber does not have to pay a cent for any part of the game. They recieve a stipend. It's the subbers that populate the GTN with Cartel items for sale. There is nothing on the GTN that a F2P needs to purchase that would keep you from completing the 1-50 story content . It's the people who dabble and want to play parts of the game, as I said cherry pick content.

Plus as the other peson said above, before F2P, the trial to Level 15 was less restrictive, and  gave a better view of what the game is like. Then if people like what they see, the sub. gear.

You want to do a operation not part of the story, you have to pay. Raid quality gear , guess what ? You can run through the story entirely to 50 though. I don't view that as restrictive.

F2P is meant to let people play parts of the game without having access to all of it, but even just to get parts of it you end up being restricted even if paying the equivalent of $15 via the CM, instead of subbing.

As I mentioned, if you start cherry picking the parts the cost is higher. The purpose was to get people interested in playing and encourage subs. Not provide a favorable F2P model. There's an interesting psycology at work in the tactic that makes sense and works. Perhaps not for you , but it's currently working for EA. Regardless of how people view it as fair or not. It's not about fair. It's business. There is nothing about F2P being fair, it's about extracting the maximum financial gain from the people that log in.

They still have not yet allowed more char slots to be purchased, which prevents me from playing and mainly ex players who probably would have created at least 2 chars by the time they quit. It is coming and increasing to 6, but it is taking ages and was known before the Life Day fluff. I have over 3000 CCC waiting to be spent, with the first thing being an extra char slot, which I can not yet buy, so as I have that many CC subbing is just a waste of money. I wish they would hurry up, as it locks you out of the game.

 Even when they allow the more character slots , you'll still be locked out of the content. This is more of a marketing move then about F2P. At 50 , is when the individual character development starts. I would suggest subbing , or deleting your account. The model you hope for , that allows your 50's to run around and do full content won't happen without a sub. You'll be sitting on those CC's for a while, it seems.

  pioneer08

Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/12
Posts: 119

12/19/12 10:52:00 AM#36
I was not "burned" that means "ALL" players were not "burned ". With that said this is a failed thread because not "all" were "burned". I would say most who actually play the game were not "burned".
  Digna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/05
Posts: 2014

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

12/19/12 8:34:22 PM#37

While I think they would rather the title continue, I have felt since I came back and saw the busy planets with the frequent questions about the 'free restrictions' that the game is all about generating as much cash as possible incase it doesn't keep going.

 

Trying to encourage 500K free players to spend 'at least' $5 to get to preferred means another 2.5 million to the company. Get the same about to spend $20 on an exansion...10mil.

 

I can't deal with it. I cancelled today.

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