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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SW:TOR F2P just a demo?

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58 posts found
  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

12/16/12 3:17:54 PM#21
Originally posted by Maxima1979
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by kyssari

One of the biggest killers for me is the fact that you get no Customer Support whatsoever if you do not subscribe. All you get is access to read the support knowledge base / FAQs on the website however you can not submit any tickets ingame or on the website regarding game issues at all... You can call them regarding billing issues but thats it.

I was a fulltime closed beta tester for nearly a year and subbed for many months after launch who wanted to return to the game recently, and was actually having a good bit of fun regardless of the numerous extreme restrictions placed on f2p players even with preferred accounts. I was even having enough fun again I was seriously considering subscribing once again until it all came to a crashing halt.

Being preferred f2p and only limited to 2 character slots I finally deleted all but one so that I could create a new imperial character to play a class story I had not seen yet as well as finish the hk-51 quest line (bought sector x access on my republic main i didnt delete) but guess what. I encountered the "you are maxxed on characters and must delete one more to create a new one" bug and thus can not create any new characters at all. The kicker is I can not submit ingame tickets, or tickets on the website, or even post on the forums, to report or try and get the issue fixed simply because I am not subscribed... Been almost 2 weeks now and the bug is still present so yeah, guess I won't be returning after all.

Altogether I think the whole list of f2p restrictions all combined together in one big batch  of "subscribe or we could care less about you" is way over the top, but this one alone is by far simply ridiculous lol. I've never played a f2p game that won't let you report  game breaking bugs like this and potentially get them fixed.

Anyways it really is quite a fun game, if you can deal with the extreme f2p restrictions, just be warned if you don't sub and encounter any game breaking bugs like I have then your simply screwed :\

This was brought up as well on a recent episode of Gamebreaker's The Republic show.  Larry (Massively) / Justin (Darth Hater) used F2P accounts to see what it was like to be "free".  Oddly, even if you rent only portions of the game Ala Carte (like weekly WZ unlocks), then you still don't get customer support.  Even though you are technically supporting SWTOR / EA.  They thought it was strange, and I'd have to agree.

 

The counter-argument is simply, "just subscribe then!" .. but that defeats the purpose of paying for only you want, sort of.  From a business standpoint, EA should provide customer support to everyone, because in the end they would want as few people as possible to have a bad experience.  Whether they pay a lot or just a little .. or nothing.  Because even those paying a little or nothing might eventually upgrade their account.

 

One thing I've learned from being in a business dependent on customer revenue: "Give a customer great service and they might tell another person about it.  Give a customer bad service and they will tell 10 other people about it."  It's generally independent of how much they actually spend.

The only issue I have with this arguement is who needs customer support for these games?  I have been playing MMO's for about six years now.  I have contacted customer support maybe 2 times, both were billing.  If you not being billed why do you need to contact them?  What would be a reason to contact them when you are playing?  To me this is just another reason for those who have never played TOR and come to every single post and bash the game.  This to me is not ground breaking in the least, because truth be told if they did get customer support these same people would be pouting it took too long. 

Karteli nailed it on the head there.

Maxima, as I clearly stated in my post I encountered a bug that literally made the game unplayable. That kind of warrants the need for some customer support but as I am a F2P Player now I am not worthy of said customer support therefore I am apparently not worthy of playing the game at all unless I pay. That pretty much completely contradicts the meaning of F2P if you ask me lol.

On another note when trying to find a way to report/fix the issue at first I was able to read numerous posts of subscribers having the same issue, only difference being their $$ made them worthy of customer support which was able to eventually fix the issue for them.

 

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

12/16/12 9:47:30 PM#22

Interesting article. In fact it points at most of the issues.

 

However I strongly disagree with the premium pricing for some stuff.

Ex: 100$ for a new space ship or even $20 for each player to have access to guild halls.

Prices have to be cheap, so many player will open their wallet and also they won't feel milked doing so.

Meaning they will be more eager to spend and spread how "cheap" is TOR.

 

Finally, in essence, the article is saying that they might indeed be making money, but in the long term they are hurting themselves and would make much more cash with a good F2P model.

 

You wish some top managers at EA would read that article and ask for some answers..

  Sevenstar61

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/12
Posts: 1593

"But it was so artistically done..." - Grand Admiral Thrawn's final words

12/16/12 10:46:27 PM#23

BioWare exchanged deadline for getteing cartel coins:

 

 

Cheers :)


Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E

  uniqueone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/12
Posts: 13

12/17/12 8:31:04 AM#24

This is a copy of what I posted on the Darth Hater forums about the REAL problems with the free to play model of SWTOR. Thought I would also post it here as it is completely related to this topic. I added a poll at the bottom here about my points.

 

 

As a player who is now in the high 40's levels in game, these have been my findings on the 'preferred' model. I could love this game, but I will not rent content.

Here is my (almost) complete thoughts on the current F2P model issues... The things that I have already (or know I will, soon) experience(d). I think it should make a lot of sense to everyone here.

Sorry that this is such a long post, but so much needs to be said.

 

Credit Caps:

After hitting levels 40+ (especially) I have found the caps to be quite an issue. I know endgame will be much much worse.

The credit cap in the 40's+ levels will be a big issue, even as preferred. 350k is not enough to buy most unlocks or items you would want from the GTN (and even vendors). Never will be. It is also much less then a 'reasonable' GTN price for people wanting to purchase and sell unlocks to these new players. This hurts everybody!

I find myself having to return to fleet just to buy crap (that I don't even want - because anything I would want, I will never be able to afford) off the GTN all the time so as to not waste as much money I grinded for disapearing into the 'escrow' abyss.

There will be quite a lot of stuff you can NEVER get.

 

Comendation Caps:

Comendation caps are also a very annoying issue. You are going to have to waste a lot of time travelling back from quest zones to buy stuff with commendation points before returning to your quests, or, missing out on good gear because of the inconvenience of a cap of 20. Yet another example of how this is simply a 'free to trial' system... and I have not even hit endgame yet.

Those caps are too low to buy a lot of gear throughout the game.

There will be quite a lot of stuff you can NEVER get.

 

Endgame:

There basicly is NONE, unless you sub or rent *lol* weekly passes for them. Yet another joke and reason this is nothing more then a 'free to trial' system.

A simple permanent unlock of either each type of endgame activity, or each level range of op/fp/wz/etc, or of each op/fp/wz/etc separately, would fix this and still make BW/EA good money - like any real F2P model does.

Why would people who did not choose to sub, instead go and rent weekly passes? It makes no sense... BW/EA should look to Dungeons & Dragons Online for a working model. I was happy to spend over $300 in a year on DDO content and unlocks and a guild ship (again, nerfing F2P guilds??? really? What a waste of a source of long term revinue) - much more then they would have made from a sub.

 

Forum/Ticket Access:

As for forum access (and tickets). It's a joke. I can't even get support for faulty CM purchases. A basic legal right.

My GTN unlock *clearly* stated "10 >>>additional<<< slots". I recieved 5. Clearly not what I paid for.

 

Artifact Equipment Unlock:

I purchased this, and now I am wonderring why. With no endgame content, and the fact that I could nearly as easy do the levelling process with all basic (even white) gear makes it sorta pointless.

There will be quite a lot of stuff you can NEVER get.

 

Unavailable Quest Rewards:

 All I can say is WTF!?!?!!? Who thought this was a good idea?

 

My Recommendations:

I would suggest simply not spending any money on the game until they fix the F2P model. Don't let them think being treated like a second class citizen for your choice of payment methods is good enough. It is not. They can make plenty (more) money by doing it properly.

As a 'preferred' player, you will always be a second class citizen under the current F2P model. Don't make my mistake and spend real money other then the basic 'preferred' status, or you will regret it (unless they finally get a clue and realize that a real model would actually make them more money then the sub model - as many other companies have found).

If BW/EA are serious about F2P then things need to change. The current system is NEVER going to work as it nothing but a (single player) trial (for an MMO???). It does not offer permanent unlocks for any of the important restrictions... an easy fix if they really wanted this model - they don't, they simply want to make you waste money thinking it will be playable only to find out late in the game that it is in fact completely pointless to continue playing unless you sub.

The few things they *cough* fixed (or are soon to) are (petty, but not game breaking - at least early on) action bars (which I had already unlocked permanently - no issue doing that - as long as I have the option), and character slots (why couldn't I simply purchase slots? - and why focus on the single player part of the game if you want long term players (endgame/guild affiliated)?).

They are not even mentioning the real issues (permanent unlocks of ops/fp/wz/etc), and the subs (who can talk on the forums about F2P while we can't) also are not mentioning them, or simply telling people to sub. That is a very, very, short term solution. The fluff is irrelevant if it can be unlocked, and yet this is what they are changing.

A smart company, and smart subscribers, should be looking at the long term picture and trying to make this model retain players over the long term. Active worlds and queues (and new players actually being able to get experience/gear in fp/wz/op/etc instead of not being able to play them enough and ruining the experience for others due to lack of experience/gear) are good for everyone.

Potential 'preferred' players, I urge you, don't sub and don't spend more then you have to for the most basic features. Tell them this is a bad model, and pledge to purchase if they fix it instead. If they want to call this a F2P model, then they better damn well make it a viable alternative payment method... otherwise I and many others will be gone and not spending another cent very soon.

Those are my experiences as a 'premium' player who spend $70 if the first week, thinking I could make this game playable under this model. Don't support it as it is!

I hate to sound so negative, but my experience has been negitive in comparison to *any* other F2P MMO I have played. I absolutely love the game, but completely hate the F2P model. It has been done nearly completely wrong (I believe very much due to the lack of actual F2P player feedback, because we can't communicate to them).

You don't need to take my word for these things, look into it and come to your own conclusions. It is your choice after all, all I can do is warn you about the major issues that I have come across.

Long term: Fix the game = Fix F2P! --- BW/EA have a chance here to make a lot of money with a fair system, which in turn has been proven by other games to permanently increase the player base if they can just stand back and look at the over-all picture. The current system seems to be marketing F2P as a single player game - which is a really dumb (short sighted) move for any MMO.

We badly need an advocate for us on the official forums (as well as podcasters) to get this messed up system addressed properly, and the F2P model turned into a true alternative payment system, not a 'glorified???' trial system. BW missed the point of F2P models.

Please don't forget your F2P brothers. Help us to help you in the long term!

 

 

What would be a successful model for a F2P MMO game?

Single Player (Levelling) Content
Multi Player (Endgame) Content
(login to vote)

And this was their BIG mistake - thinking of the F2P model as a trial instead of an alternative payment method.

  uniqueone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/12
Posts: 13

12/17/12 8:53:56 AM#25

hmm my poll was not well described, it should have been more like "What would be a successful long term F2P model?"

 

And this was their BIG mistake - thinking of the F2P model as a trial instead of an alternative payment method.

  SBE1

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 339

12/17/12 10:06:04 AM#26

My #1 beef with the free to play model is that when I went to log on to my account (preferred status), I wanted to experience a new class story.  But, to do that I was limited to just 2 characters....well, I had 5 and was told to delete characters in order to make new ones.  WTF?  I'm not going to delete my old characters just to make a new character.  I even tried to make a new character on a new server, but the limitation was account-wide.   That's insane!

So, I had to create a completely new account, thus I don't have preferred status.  Several abilities I've never trained because I don't have enough room on my 2 quickbars.  

The 5-rez limit is also super annoying.  The 25% XP reduction becomes a problem around level 30 if you're playing to experience the class stories, as you start to easily finish the quests and still be underleveled relative to your class quest.

But, there's not much incentive to pay.  The removal of penalties doesn't prompt me to resub or pay cartel coins.  There should be a feature that unlocks something I do want to sub for, but the game doesn't have it.  I don't know what the right model is, but the "removal of penalties" doesn't really do it.

  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

12/17/12 12:36:35 PM#27
Originally posted by SBE1

My #1 beef with the free to play model is that when I went to log on to my account (preferred status), I wanted to experience a new class story.  But, to do that I was limited to just 2 characters....well, I had 5 and was told to delete characters in order to make new ones.  WTF?  I'm not going to delete my old characters just to make a new character.  I even tried to make a new character on a new server, but the limitation was account-wide.   That's insane!

So, I had to create a completely new account, thus I don't have preferred status.  Several abilities I've never trained because I don't have enough room on my 2 quickbars.  

The 5-rez limit is also super annoying.  The 25% XP reduction becomes a problem around level 30 if you're playing to experience the class stories, as you start to easily finish the quests and still be underleveled relative to your class quest.

But, there's not much incentive to pay.  The removal of penalties doesn't prompt me to resub or pay cartel coins.  There should be a feature that unlocks something I do want to sub for, but the game doesn't have it.  I don't know what the right model is, but the "removal of penalties" doesn't really do it.

I hear you there man, biggest kicker is I did actually delete all but one toon so I could create a new one for story and hk-51 questline but I got the bug saying I still had to many toons so its now impossible to create a new toon even if I delete ALL of my toons. Add on the fact I can't submit a ticket or even post on the forums to report let alone try and fix the issue and yep, I'm done.

Really only F2P until you encounter a game breaking bug like I did then its pure P2P because without paying you'll never get it fixed and be able to play again lol :\

  Evgireon

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/13/05
Posts: 68

12/17/12 3:57:27 PM#28

The are only 2 disadvantages to being F2P, such as being unable to trade and send mail/items/credits. Everything else is unlockable and buyable. People who tell you in this thread that you'll NEVER be able to buy some item from the GTN are making stuff up.

 

The biggest problem are horrible lag spikes in warzones and over-populated areas like the fleet. I can totally understand why people would unsubscribe when they have 60000 ms lag and then it's DISCOnnect TIME and you get 0 valor and 0 comms.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1267

12/17/12 4:35:00 PM#29
Originally posted by Evgireon

The are only 2 disadvantages to being F2P, such as being unable to trade and send mail/items/credits. Everything else is unlockable and buyable. People who tell you in this thread that you'll NEVER be able to buy some item from the GTN are making stuff up.

 

The biggest problem are horrible lag spikes in warzones and over-populated areas like the fleet. I can totally understand why people would unsubscribe when they have 60000 ms lag and then it's DISCOnnect TIME and you get 0 valor and 0 comms.

The lag spikes are also a disadvantage of F2P. Based on Zynga's published stats only 3-5% of players pay anything. So a company running a F2P game has to:

-  budget for enough server capacity

-  to ensure that everyone gets a good experience

- to ensure that they continue to play.

Anything less is a false economy. Circumstances being what they are however I suspect that "new" ependiture was off-limits. And of course the game has gone through the opening / closing server cycle. F2P games are different beasts however.

Now maybe EA will address the issue - but it isn't likely. Budgets are likely to come under increasing pressure as well after EA was dropped from the NASDAQ 100. 

  kyssari

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

12/17/12 7:24:12 PM#30
Originally posted by Evgireon

The are only 2 disadvantages to being F2P, such as being unable to trade and send mail/items/credits. Everything else is unlockable and buyable. People who tell you in this thread that you'll NEVER be able to buy some item from the GTN are making stuff up.

 

The biggest problem are horrible lag spikes in warzones and over-populated areas like the fleet. I can totally understand why people would unsubscribe when they have 60000 ms lag and then it's DISCOnnect TIME and you get 0 valor and 0 comms.

When they say you will never be able to buy certain items off the GTN it is because they are priced far above the credit cap of 200k for F2P members and 350k for preferred members. Some general things like inventory expansions and emotes / consumables and crap are low enough sure but almost all the real useful stuff I've seen is priced way above the credit cap thus making it impossible for any f2p player to ever buy. I've seen prototype equipment authorization always listed at 500-1mill+ crew skill slots and other stuff always 400k+ and even things like sector x and a lot of other things were always right around 300k making it impossible for full f2p.

  kevjards

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/27/10
Posts: 1445

12/17/12 7:40:13 PM#31

atm i sub to this game..but here's the thing..you have gw2 b2p which is great for the casual player,you have TSW b2p which is great for casual players.swtor is the worse of the 3 that i have..sorry 4 i have lotro as well.now the other 3 relitavely cost me nothing at all.with lotro i have a lifetime that cost me £75 ,i have gw2 that cost me £50,and TSW that cost me £40..it does not take a genious to work out that if i ditch one its going to be SWTOR.its not worth the sub when you compare that game to the other 3.there is no depth to the game at all.in 6-12 onths the so called f2p model in SWTOR  will be so far behind every other company there will be no chance of getting players back..imo they should do what funcom did when they were in trouble..make it b2p.imo SWTOR would make a great b2p game that would sell a shitload of copies.i have a lot of admiration for funcom for admitting they screwed up on the sub etc.why cant EA/BIOWARE do the same.

Its only going to get worse for EA and Bioware when new games come out.b2p is the best option.

  Marirranya

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 154

12/17/12 9:31:09 PM#32

i quit swtor back in May this year :<

only played it for 2-3 months i think?

don't know why but the game didnt get me addicted to it unlike wow which got me hooked for a good 5 years :3

There are people who play games and then there are gamers.

http://alzplz.blogspot.com

  uniqueone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/12
Posts: 13

12/17/12 10:40:11 PM#33
Originally posted by Marirranya

i quit swtor back in May this year :<

only played it for 2-3 months i think?

don't know why but the game didnt get me addicted to it unlike wow which got me hooked for a good 5 years :3

I would guess it has something to do with lack of repeatable content?

They do focus a bit too much on single player stories instead of endgame (where most people get to very quickly).

 

And this was their BIG mistake - thinking of the F2P model as a trial instead of an alternative payment method.

  MMOGamer71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1528

12/17/12 10:47:13 PM#34
Originally posted by mikahr

He just said what we all think (and have said).

^

This.

  Camaro68

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 52

12/17/12 11:37:06 PM#35

If McDonald's had a free menu people would complain about it.

NO FRIES WITH MY MCDOUBLE?? RAGEQUIT!!

 

 

 

  uniqueone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/12
Posts: 13

12/17/12 11:40:46 PM#36
Originally posted by Camaro68

If McDonald's had a free menu people would complain about it.

NO FRIES WITH MY MCDOUBLE?? RAGEQUIT!!

 

A much better analogy would be:

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but they only offered me toilet waste and called it a hamburger, so I went to burger king instead.

 

-or-

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but they only offered to rent it to me and I would be forced to throw it up and give it back after (so they can re-sell it), so I went to burger king instead.

 

-or-

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but everyone was pointing and laughing at me before leaving the store to find better people to eat with, so I went to burger king instead.

And this was their BIG mistake - thinking of the F2P model as a trial instead of an alternative payment method.

  User Deleted
12/17/12 11:56:00 PM#37
Originally posted by Camaro68

If McDonald's had a free menu people would complain about it.

NO FRIES WITH MY MCDOUBLE?? RAGEQUIT!!

 

 

 

 

I think I'd have to end it all if I saw a congo line of heinously obese Americans on Rascals at McDonalds. Fat people are always gracious when free food is involved; especially when it's the good shit like McDonalds. McDonalds has that grade-A shit that really hits the spot. Sometimes I get a craving for diabetes so I roll out to buy a four or five Big Mac value meals and a Big Gulp of Coke.

 

I don't know how this relates to MMOs, but you guys are so good at analogies I'm sure you'll be able to make it work.

  Marirranya

Novice Member

Joined: 12/13/12
Posts: 154

12/18/12 12:01:53 AM#38
Originally posted by uniqueone
Originally posted by Marirranya

i quit swtor back in May this year :<

only played it for 2-3 months i think?

don't know why but the game didnt get me addicted to it unlike wow which got me hooked for a good 5 years :3

I would guess it has something to do with lack of repeatable content?

They do focus a bit too much on single player stories instead of endgame (where most people get to very quickly).

 

 

I think so :<

 

raiding in wow was sooo much fun xD

i dunno why but with swtor it was meh 

There are people who play games and then there are gamers.

http://alzplz.blogspot.com

  uniqueone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/12
Posts: 13

12/18/12 12:02:04 AM#39
Originally posted by birdycephon
Originally posted by uniqueone
Originally posted by Camaro68

If McDonald's had a free menu people would complain about it.

NO FRIES WITH MY MCDOUBLE?? RAGEQUIT!!

 

A much better analogy would be:

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but they only offered me toilet waste and called it a hamburger, so I went to burger king instead.

 

-or-

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but they only offered to rent it to me and I would be forced to throw it up and give it back after (so they can re-sell it), so I went to burger king instead.

 

-or-

 

I wanted to buy food at McDonald's, but everyone was pointing and laughing at me before leaving the store to find better people to eat with, so I went to burger king instead.

[mod edit]

 

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=katzz57tmm4

 

And this was their BIG mistake - thinking of the F2P model as a trial instead of an alternative payment method.

  User Deleted
12/18/12 12:09:26 AM#40
Originally posted by baphamet

people that complain about the F2P model are the same people that hate the game anyway.

whats hilarious to me is people who say how bad this game is somehow expected it to be more enjoyable for them once it had a restricted F2P model.

i got news for you people, if you hate a game with all of its features, you are going to hate it more with a restricted F2P version of the game.

simply saving money or playing a free game doesn't make it more fun, which is why i always just sub to a game i want to play, instead of playing a gimped restricted version of a game.

but hey, that is just me i guess.

 

Nope I love the F2P models that most games come out with when it's absent of a subscription entirely and allows for the basics (ample character slots, all the bags, all items earnable in game without paying RL money for them)

I hated this game long before they came out with their horrendous F2P model because of it's failing to be what the lead devs claimed it would be, a next gen mmo where we would be able to do things that were never experienced before.

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