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Hardware  » SERIOUS HELP needed, info below.

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59 posts found
  User Deleted
12/15/12 10:41:26 PM#41
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22

Also, you mentioned replacing the mobo, but that's kind of a non-trivial part ot replace.  Care to elaborate?

I have alot of family that are tech savvy, they didnt seem to run into any trouble taking it out and what not.  But alas, no results. 

You didn't really elaborate though... did you replace the mobo with the same kind?  did you just take it out and put it back in?  did you put an entirely different one in?  why in the world would you swap a mobo out before trying to swap a cpu out?

Do you have many USB devices plugged in while you play and, if so, have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse and keyboard in use?  How many case fans do you have, and what direction is the airflow for each one and where are those three located?

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3666

12/16/12 12:25:58 AM#42

58C for video card while gaming is not that bad.

I've seen you throw a lot of different numbers for your CPU around though; 28C is really really good, even at idle. 50C at idle is not good at all, and would indicate a problem with your heatsink or thermal compound - I'd really suspect the thermal compound if you had a motherboard replacement. Intel used to like to use Thermal pads instead of compound, and they can't be reused, they have to be scraped off clean and then have fresh thermal compound put down.

CPU clocks change a lot - they shouldn't bounce all over the place normally - they should steady in on a setting someplace according to their load and thermal situation. If the clock speed is nosediving, then it's probably overheating and trying to save itself. They will underclock once they hit about 95C internally, and literally shut themselves off (causing your PC to reboot or shut off) if they hit around 100C - and the motherboard BIOS may be set to underclock even more aggressively than that.

The fact that you had to underclock your video card is also a typical overheating situation. If your having problems with both your CPU and GPU - your case is probably at fault. Now the Dragonrider is a pretty big case, and if it has side-fans, you should be good (even if two of the fans were out). Sure you don't have the computer like sitting inside a closed cabinet, or setting against the side of a desk where it can't breath? Pull the computer case out in the open, take the sides off it completely, and see how it runs like that.

What motherboard did you put in the computer when you replaced it?

Aside from that - the fact that you can't manually control anything doesn't mean your computer is broken - it just means you haven't taken the time to take your meds and calm down enough to figure it out. Odds are most of them are plugged into static fan headers and are non-controllable anyway - the CPU and GPU fans are usually about the only one you can really control via software anyway (without having special fan controllers).

  GroovyFlower

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/11
Posts: 1252

Skyrim

12/16/12 5:31:58 AM#43

When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1942

12/16/12 10:39:24 AM#44

I would probably check to see if the cpu has thermal paste on it, just to be sure.

Honestly you have tinkered around with so much stuff without much of an idea of what actually to do with what you were messing with there is no telling whats wrong.

I would set everything back to stock speeds after I made sure the thermal paste was on the cpu. Then try and troubleshoot from stock settings. It doesnt sound like your gpu is over heating so not sure what your trying to adjust fan speeds for.

Did the computer work fine out of the gate and only start to mess up when you decided to tinker with stuff? Or was it a problem right from the start?

If right from the beginning I would pursue action, maybe a charge back from you CC company or banking institution. If you decided to change up settings and then it started to have problems then salvage what you can, mark this down as a lesson learned and move on.

  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3059

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

12/16/12 10:48:32 AM#45

what mother board do you have, some of the ati boards will not suport more then 4gig of memory.  Also check the channels of your memory and make sure you have them in the right spots.  This sounds like either a bad mother board, incompatable memory, or a bad cpu.   I would think the mother board is bad, or incompatable with what they put in it.

I know I read several complaints where folks asked for stuff, got the stuff but later found out it was incompatable.

 

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 3:49:12 PM#46
Originally posted by jdnewell

I would probably check to see if the cpu has thermal paste on it, just to be sure.

Honestly you have tinkered around with so much stuff without much of an idea of what actually to do with what you were messing with there is no telling whats wrong.

I would set everything back to stock speeds after I made sure the thermal paste was on the cpu. Then try and troubleshoot from stock settings. It doesnt sound like your gpu is over heating so not sure what your trying to adjust fan speeds for.

Did the computer work fine out of the gate and only start to mess up when you decided to tinker with stuff? Or was it a problem right from the start?

If right from the beginning I would pursue action, maybe a charge back from you CC company or banking institution. If you decided to change up settings and then it started to have problems then salvage what you can, mark this down as a lesson learned and move on.

It has done this since the day I got it.  The distorted graphics, and the crashing at normal clocks. The CPU cores burst up in temperature from 28C, sometimes going 50C idle in a second and i cant imagine what that could be with a game running.  I Have the GPU at stock speeds always, I just tossed in that its actually stable when I underclock them.  The CPU has a mind of its own so I cant really "set" anything for it. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 3:56:05 PM#47
Originally posted by Ridelynn

58C for video card while gaming is not that bad.

I've seen you throw a lot of different numbers for your CPU around though; 28C is really really good, even at idle. 50C at idle is not good at all, and would indicate a problem with your heatsink or thermal compound - I'd really suspect the thermal compound if you had a motherboard replacement. Intel used to like to use Thermal pads instead of compound, and they can't be reused, they have to be scraped off clean and then have fresh thermal compound put down.

CPU clocks change a lot - they shouldn't bounce all over the place normally - they should steady in on a setting someplace according to their load and thermal situation. If the clock speed is nosediving, then it's probably overheating and trying to save itself. They will underclock once they hit about 95C internally, and literally shut themselves off (causing your PC to reboot or shut off) if they hit around 100C - and the motherboard BIOS may be set to underclock even more aggressively than that.

The fact that you had to underclock your video card is also a typical overheating situation. If your having problems with both your CPU and GPU - your case is probably at fault. Now the Dragonrider is a pretty big case, and if it has side-fans, you should be good (even if two of the fans were out). Sure you don't have the computer like sitting inside a closed cabinet, or setting against the side of a desk where it can't breath? Pull the computer case out in the open, take the sides off it completely, and see how it runs like that.

What motherboard did you put in the computer when you replaced it?

Aside from that - the fact that you can't manually control anything doesn't mean your computer is broken - it just means you haven't taken the time to take your meds and calm down enough to figure it out. Odds are most of them are plugged into static fan headers and are non-controllable anyway - the CPU and GPU fans are usually about the only one you can really control via software anyway (without having special fan controllers).

Ive taken the sides off and ran it, no difference.  The case has 2 top fans 1 side 1 back, and ontop of that theres a huge fan installed on the opposite side that spans the entire side I cant see how anymore fans could be needed.  Since my GPU doesnt seem to be shooting up, and also has two fans on it, I could never understand why underclocking it = stable PC. 

The mobo I had in was a GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel .  Nothing had changed, distorted graphics same crashing cycle, the BIOS were updated on that board as well.

Heres the problem with the fans- I could go into my VTUNE dashboard, and adjust fan speed to whatever I please I could make them mega fast or slow.  Now I cannot, for whatever reason it no longer lets me adjust them and they are always dynamic.  Ontop of that my LED blue light i had on the giant side fan is no longer activating if that helps. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 3:56:56 PM#48
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.

I've updated the BIOS, and tried two mobo's.  The chance that they are both causing this problem seems highly unlikely to me unless theres some other factor involved. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 3:58:19 PM#49
Originally posted by erictlewis

what mother board do you have, some of the ati boards will not suport more then 4gig of memory.  Also check the channels of your memory and make sure you have them in the right spots.  This sounds like either a bad mother board, incompatable memory, or a bad cpu.   I would think the mother board is bad, or incompatable with what they put in it.

I know I read several complaints where folks asked for stuff, got the stuff but later found out it was incompatable.

 

All my system specs are in the original post, its also not an ATI. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1942

12/16/12 4:00:23 PM#50
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.

I've updated the BIOS, and tried two mobo's.  The chance that they are both causing this problem seems highly unlikely to me unless theres some other factor involved. 

Is there thermal paste on the cpu? between fan and cpu?

Thats the 1st thing I would check

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 4:02:15 PM#51
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22

Also, you mentioned replacing the mobo, but that's kind of a non-trivial part ot replace.  Care to elaborate?

I have alot of family that are tech savvy, they didnt seem to run into any trouble taking it out and what not.  But alas, no results. 

You didn't really elaborate though... did you replace the mobo with the same kind?  did you just take it out and put it back in?  did you put an entirely different one in?  why in the world would you swap a mobo out before trying to swap a cpu out?

Do you have many USB devices plugged in while you play and, if so, have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse and keyboard in use?  How many case fans do you have, and what direction is the airflow for each one and where are those three located?

The mobo that i put in to trouble shoot was a GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel mobo.  I do not own a 2nd cpu to use for troubleshooting purposes, with the direction this issue is taking there is a high probability that it will change.  I use a razer naga epic, and anasi keyboard USB's, other than the two top fans that plug into USB ports those are the only things that are plugged in.  I will try without the two fans plugged it, however I did not see that being something I should do when i saw my temperatures were very high.   

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 4:27:36 PM#52
Originally posted by jdnewell
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by GroovyFlower

When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.

I've updated the BIOS, and tried two mobo's.  The chance that they are both causing this problem seems highly unlikely to me unless theres some other factor involved. 

Is there thermal paste on the cpu? between fan and cpu?

Thats the 1st thing I would check

Theres goo like blue stuff on the cpu and in between fan thing/cpu. This is the thermal paste correct?

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Lille7

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/08
Posts: 303

12/16/12 4:31:06 PM#53

Im not sure on the exact model of your graphics card, but it's not uncommon for factory overclocked cards to be unstable. It's got nothing to do with temps its about the graphics cards power supply (not the power supply in your case, but the power regulators on the card itself). If you don't want to underclock your card you can try increasing the voltages for the card. I'd recommend using MSI Afterburner, works with all cards, it will also let you set a custom fan profile for your card.

 

For the processor you can try and change power settings in windows, put it on Performance instead of Balanced or Power Saving and see if the CPU clocks stabilize. If they don't I would recommend you try another CPU and see if that solves the problem.

  User Deleted
12/16/12 6:18:52 PM#54
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22

Also, you mentioned replacing the mobo, but that's kind of a non-trivial part ot replace.  Care to elaborate?

I have alot of family that are tech savvy, they didnt seem to run into any trouble taking it out and what not.  But alas, no results. 

You didn't really elaborate though... did you replace the mobo with the same kind?  did you just take it out and put it back in?  did you put an entirely different one in?  why in the world would you swap a mobo out before trying to swap a cpu out?

Do you have many USB devices plugged in while you play and, if so, have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse and keyboard in use?  How many case fans do you have, and what direction is the airflow for each one and where are those three located?

The mobo that i put in to trouble shoot was a GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel mobo.  I do not own a 2nd cpu to use for troubleshooting purposes, with the direction this issue is taking there is a high probability that it will change.  I use a razer naga epic, and anasi keyboard USB's, other than the two top fans that plug into USB ports those are the only things that are plugged in.  I will try without the two fans plugged it, however I did not see that being something I should do when i saw my temperatures were very high.   

That is not what I said to do...  Honestly, this is starting to sound like a classic example of having a loose nut on the keyboard.  It's like when someone who has no clue about how computers work starts talking about registry changes they've made to troubleshoot a problem.

User-interface error.  Look into it.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3666

12/16/12 7:13:51 PM#55


Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by jdnewell

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by GroovyFlower When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.
I've updated the BIOS, and tried two mobo's.  The chance that they are both causing this problem seems highly unlikely to me unless theres some other factor involved. 
Is there thermal paste on the cpu? between fan and cpu? Thats the 1st thing I would check
Theres goo like blue stuff on the cpu and in between fan thing/cpu. This is the thermal paste correct?

Amy time you pull the heatsink off - you have to clean off the old stuff and use new stuff.

So the fact that you checked it and saw that it's blue - you need to clean all that stuff off and put on new stuff.

Leave the CPU in the socket on the motherboard (keeps the pins safe on the backside), and clean the old stuff off as best you can - make sure not to get any up under the heat shield (the piece of metal on top of the CPU that says Intel), and really make sure not to get any on the motherboard. Use a bit of rubbing alcohol to help clean it if need be. It needs to be perfectly clean. Same with the bottom of the heatsink.

Get some new thermal compound - it's usually white or silvery colored, but can be other colors. If you buy new compound, it comes in a little syringe or blister pack, and that little bit is enough to do probably 10 CPU's. It usually has the consistency of toothpaste. A very very small amount is all you need - just enough to barely cover the top of the CPU heat shield with a very very thin layer (think butter on toast, not pb&j) - again being very careful not to get any on the motherboard or down in the socket. A small drop and then smear it around the top with a tissue, Qtip or your fingertip. Then put the heatsink back on top, twist it just a bit to make sure the thermal compound makes good contact all over, and re-lock it down.

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 7:59:53 PM#56
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22

Also, you mentioned replacing the mobo, but that's kind of a non-trivial part ot replace.  Care to elaborate?

I have alot of family that are tech savvy, they didnt seem to run into any trouble taking it out and what not.  But alas, no results. 

You didn't really elaborate though... did you replace the mobo with the same kind?  did you just take it out and put it back in?  did you put an entirely different one in?  why in the world would you swap a mobo out before trying to swap a cpu out?

Do you have many USB devices plugged in while you play and, if so, have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse and keyboard in use?  How many case fans do you have, and what direction is the airflow for each one and where are those three located?

The mobo that i put in to trouble shoot was a GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel mobo.  I do not own a 2nd cpu to use for troubleshooting purposes, with the direction this issue is taking there is a high probability that it will change.  I use a razer naga epic, and anasi keyboard USB's, other than the two top fans that plug into USB ports those are the only things that are plugged in.  I will try without the two fans plugged it, however I did not see that being something I should do when i saw my temperatures were very high.   

That is not what I said to do...  Honestly, this is starting to sound like a classic example of having a loose nut on the keyboard.  It's like when someone who has no clue about how computers work starts talking about registry changes they've made to troubleshoot a problem.

User-interface error.  Look into it.

"Have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse or keyboard in use" = Unplug every other USB port thats in use except keyboard and mouse. But thanks for the paragraph of nothing, im sure it'll come in handy.   Also it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone who makes a thread such as mine obviously lacks advanced knowledge of all this ****.

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  Chrisbox

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/10
Posts: 1637

 
OP  12/16/12 8:02:16 PM#57
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by jdnewell

Originally posted by Chrisbox

Originally posted by GroovyFlower When computer crashes regualry it can be your bios and chipset drivers are outdated, it helps when you realy have latests bios and MB driver updates this can be one of issues you have with crashing.
I've updated the BIOS, and tried two mobo's.  The chance that they are both causing this problem seems highly unlikely to me unless theres some other factor involved. 
Is there thermal paste on the cpu? between fan and cpu? Thats the 1st thing I would check
Theres goo like blue stuff on the cpu and in between fan thing/cpu. This is the thermal paste correct?

 

Amy time you pull the heatsink off - you have to clean off the old stuff and use new stuff.

So the fact that you checked it and saw that it's blue - you need to clean all that stuff off and put on new stuff.

Leave the CPU in the socket on the motherboard (keeps the pins safe on the backside), and clean the old stuff off as best you can - make sure not to get any up under the heat shield (the piece of metal on top of the CPU that says Intel), and really make sure not to get any on the motherboard. Use a bit of rubbing alcohol to help clean it if need be. It needs to be perfectly clean. Same with the bottom of the heatsink.

Get some new thermal compound - it's usually white or silvery colored, but can be other colors. If you buy new compound, it comes in a little syringe or blister pack, and that little bit is enough to do probably 10 CPU's. It usually has the consistency of toothpaste. A very very small amount is all you need - just enough to barely cover the top of the CPU heat shield with a very very thin layer (think butter on toast, not pb&j) - again being very careful not to get any on the motherboard or down in the socket. A small drop and then smear it around the top with a tissue, Qtip or your fingertip. Then put the heatsink back on top, twist it just a bit to make sure the thermal compound makes good contact all over, and re-lock it down.

I have other thermal compound that I already applied everythings all back in place but that didnt really fix anything other than confirming it had thermal compound. 

Played-Everything
Playing-FFXIV:ARR

  User Deleted
12/17/12 1:19:25 AM#58
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Chrisbox
Originally posted by asmkm22

Also, you mentioned replacing the mobo, but that's kind of a non-trivial part ot replace.  Care to elaborate?

I have alot of family that are tech savvy, they didnt seem to run into any trouble taking it out and what not.  But alas, no results. 

You didn't really elaborate though... did you replace the mobo with the same kind?  did you just take it out and put it back in?  did you put an entirely different one in?  why in the world would you swap a mobo out before trying to swap a cpu out?

Do you have many USB devices plugged in while you play and, if so, have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse and keyboard in use?  How many case fans do you have, and what direction is the airflow for each one and where are those three located?

The mobo that i put in to trouble shoot was a GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel mobo.  I do not own a 2nd cpu to use for troubleshooting purposes, with the direction this issue is taking there is a high probability that it will change.  I use a razer naga epic, and anasi keyboard USB's, other than the two top fans that plug into USB ports those are the only things that are plugged in.  I will try without the two fans plugged it, however I did not see that being something I should do when i saw my temperatures were very high.   

That is not what I said to do...  Honestly, this is starting to sound like a classic example of having a loose nut on the keyboard.  It's like when someone who has no clue about how computers work starts talking about registry changes they've made to troubleshoot a problem.

User-interface error.  Look into it.

"Have you tried to reproduce the problem without anything other than a mouse or keyboard in use" = Unplug every other USB port thats in use except keyboard and mouse. But thanks for the paragraph of nothing, im sure it'll come in handy.   Also it doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that someone who makes a thread such as mine obviously lacks advanced knowledge of all this ****.

So you're telling me your case fans are plugged in by USB?

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3666

12/17/12 4:04:03 AM#59

USB case fans do exist - I can't really think of a good reason for them to though. Or why a computer would have one - they cost about 5x more than a regular fan, and push about half as much air, and the inside of any case is going to have more than enough connections (either via motherboard header or molex from power supply) to run a few fans without needing to tie up USB ports (which are ~outside~ the case).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106140

More than likely, I think we have a case of "Should put down the screwdriver and call Geek Squad"

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