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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How much realism do you want in your virtual world MMORPGs?

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90 posts found
  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

12/15/12 1:53:02 PM#41

I want only as much realism as is needed for the games mechanics and goals.Using a non MMORPG for an example I don't roll my eyes and whine a bout being able to falll 2 miles into a small pile of hay in Assassin's Creed but I would certainly not want to be able to fly like superman and kill my targets with my death ray but I would be fine with death rays and flying in another game.

I guess what I'm saying is there is no right answer for this question becasue not every game or virtual world shoudl be built around the same design and gamepaly goals.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 1118

12/15/12 1:57:40 PM#42

Some things I would personally like in terms of realism...

 

Food and drink - While I agree the requirement to eat and drink to stay alive is one not many want, I still think food and drink can serve a purpose. Sieges should require supplies, including food and drink. Starve out a keep, let the attacking army starve in winter (so they have to stop the siege rather then die of hunger), that sort of thing.

Personally I would like to see food used in games with exploration to determine how much distance a person can explore. So if you are heading into the wilderness you better carry extra food or have good survival skills. If you run out of food you start to slow down. So on a full stomach you travel quickly, as you hunger you start to slow down and your ability to move further into the wilderness in reduced. Run out of food and to can only crawl along and can no longer move away from the last habitated area you were in. Most games don't even have food and drink as anything other then a sort of buff. there are many things they can do with a food and drink system.

This leads to carry weight. I hate being able to carry endless shit in my bags. I want to have everything I carry have a use and a reason to carry it. Too many games don't have enough realism in this area and allow you to carry 20 suits of full plate armour and 20 great swords.

This leads to what you carry and use affecting what you can do. It seems TESO is going a little in the right difection where wearing certain armour will give a bonus to certain skills and a negative to others. Wearing a full suit of armour should slow you down, make crossing a river dangerous but be great for protection. A robe should aloow quick movements but offer little protection from blade or arrow. A great sword should be slow but do lots of damage, a dagger quick but not as much. Weapons and armour should be situational and functional, not a sign of which raid you have done or what level you are.

Loot drops should make sense. A bear shouldn't drop a suit of full plate but perhaps some meat, skin and bones. A ranger using a bow should drop a bow and arrows and some light armour, a knight some plate armour...you get the idea. Havfe loot tables sure...like the good old D&D started, but don't forget to give each type of enemy have their own loot table that makes sense.

The world shouldn't have barriers unless the world has barriers. A mountain is fine as a barrier, if you don't have the skills to climb one, but an invisible wall or hard coded "you cannot pass this point" are not. TESO is doing this badly with enforced restrictions on where in the world you can go. Sure, make it dangerous to enter some parts of the world but give me the option if I want. Don't stick an invisible wall in the way and expect me to respect your design concept.

Skills, abilities and PvP. A level 80 should not be able to go AFK and be invulnerable to a level 1. If the level 80 is stupid and doesn't protect themselves then they deserve to die. Skills should...take skill, not just pressing the button when the little light flashes. A game where what you do, when you do it, where you do it and to who rather then what level you are, how much you spent buying the character or how many raids you spent to get that phat loot. A sword is a sword, the player should decide who wins a fight, not how many levels above your opponent you are.

I could go on.

Simply put I want realism, a lot more then games have now, but rather then having a realism vs fun argument I would love a designer to actually think "how can we make this system be realistic while maintaining the fun part of the game". Integrate realism with how the game plays and what the point of the system is trying to achieve.

  User Deleted
12/15/12 1:59:21 PM#43

I'm not sure realism is what I want.  I think it's more like detail.

 

If I'm playing a mage from the Zimblowme tribe on planet AngaOngo, and I have a ton of complex spells in my spellbook, that's not realism, but rather detailed fantasy.  It's the opposite of "dumbed down".

 

I like detail.  If it takes 15 components to make a clock, then it does.  I shouldn't be able to make one out of a piece of wood and a bar of copper and it should take longer than 2 seconds to produce.

 

BTW: Lots of good comments in the thread.  Interesting read.

  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2745

12/15/12 2:05:50 PM#44

Frankly, I'd like to see any decent virtual world, period.

Considering what has come out over the last 8+ years has been overly linear, instanced themepark  or barely functioning indie games, anything approaching a relatively well-made, non-"combat only" virtual world would be most welcome.

The specifics about realism are not so important as that.

Don't need any more linear themeparks, don't want any more cheap crap indie games that over-promise and never deliver.

 

 

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

12/15/12 3:07:03 PM#45
    The less realism the better for me....I absolutely dislike having to eat or drink in any game (especially if you can die from not doing so)..... Also my avatar doesn't have to look like a photo shoot or anything like that....I know I am playing a game and I'm OK with that.
  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

12/15/12 3:16:43 PM#46
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kyleran

3) That is just an example. Don't put non-fun gameplay in my GAME just because it sounds real. K> We weren't really talking about your games, we were talking about more realistic virtual world MMORPG's.  But feel free to start your own thread on the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

We are talking about the question "How much realism do you want" .. the answer is "none if it interfere with my fun".

No, the question was "How much realism do you want in your virtual world MMORPGS", do you really think that people will be fooled by you cutting off the end of the title to justify your thread hijacking.


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18929

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

 
OP  12/15/12 3:29:17 PM#47
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kyleran

3) That is just an example. Don't put non-fun gameplay in my GAME just because it sounds real. K> We weren't really talking about your games, we were talking about more realistic virtual world MMORPG's.  But feel free to start your own thread on the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

We are talking about the question "How much realism do you want" .. the answer is "none if it interfere with my fun".

No, the question was "How much realism do you want in your virtual world MMORPGS", do you really think that people will be fooled by you cutting off the end of the title to justify your thread hijacking.

 

In all fairness my thread title doesn't really reflect the discussion presented in my OP, always a mistake as many people reply just off of the title and could have caused some confusion. But in this case he knows exactly what I meant and what he is doing. And as someone else mentioned, I should know better.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

12/15/12 3:41:26 PM#48
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by ObiClownobi
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kyleran

3) That is just an example. Don't put non-fun gameplay in my GAME just because it sounds real. K> We weren't really talking about your games, we were talking about more realistic virtual world MMORPG's.  But feel free to start your own thread on the topic.

 

 

 

 

 

We are talking about the question "How much realism do you want" .. the answer is "none if it interfere with my fun".

No, the question was "How much realism do you want in your virtual world MMORPGS", do you really think that people will be fooled by you cutting off the end of the title to justify your thread hijacking.

 

In all fairness my thread title doesn't really reflect the discussion presented in my OP, always a mistake as many people reply just off of the title and could have caused some confusion. But in this case he knows exactly what I meant and what he is doing. And as someone else mentioned, I should know better.

I was really hypocritical though. After I said not to do it I then did it.

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2681

12/15/12 3:44:18 PM#49

I want it to be as realistic as it could be.  That means being forced to eat, sleep, rest, go to the potty, and need to go to the hospital when wounded by a significant amount.

Oh and I shouldnt be able to fight if I sustain too much damage and must rest for weeks at the hospital. 

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  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

12/15/12 3:46:53 PM#50
Enough to where it includes dismemberment? Wow that sounds super messed up said like that, but I love shooting a zombie and it's leg falls off. Guess im weird 

  LadyEuphei

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 226

12/15/12 3:51:02 PM#51
Oh I also want house building and customization!

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

12/15/12 3:53:30 PM#52
Originally posted by Castillle

I want it to be as realistic as it could be.  That means being forced to eat, sleep, rest, go to the potty, and need to go to the hospital when wounded by a significant amount.

Oh and I shouldnt be able to fight if I sustain too much damage and must rest for weeks at the hospital. 

Is this sarcastic?

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18929

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

 
OP  12/15/12 3:59:47 PM#53
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Castillle

I want it to be as realistic as it could be.  That means being forced to eat, sleep, rest, go to the potty, and need to go to the hospital when wounded by a significant amount.

Oh and I shouldnt be able to fight if I sustain too much damage and must rest for weeks at the hospital. 

Is this sarcastic?

 

Naw, just an extensive use of hyperbole, another time proven forum posting tactic here at MMORPG.COM. Although it looks similar, sarcasm is more clever.

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Cuathon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/24/04
Posts: 2254

Draw Something is now an MMO. God has forsaken us.

12/15/12 4:10:29 PM#54
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Cuathon
Originally posted by Castillle

I want it to be as realistic as it could be.  That means being forced to eat, sleep, rest, go to the potty, and need to go to the hospital when wounded by a significant amount.

Oh and I shouldnt be able to fight if I sustain too much damage and must rest for weeks at the hospital. 

Is this sarcastic?

 

Naw, just an extensive use of hyperbole, another time proven forum posting tactic here at MMORPG.COM. Although it looks similar, sarcasm is more clever.

I usually agree with Castille so it seemed weird that she would make such an argument against added realism.

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

12/15/12 4:24:56 PM#55
Originally posted by Castillle

Oh and I shouldnt be able to fight if I sustain too much damage and must rest for weeks at the hospital. 

That mechanic actually played out surprisingly well in the old XCOM games (yeah, I know, not an MMO ... but still a source of inspiration).  If you have a game designed around playing a stable of alts rather than a single character, then having various timeouts (recuperation, training, crafting) is something to consider.

  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

12/15/12 4:29:25 PM#56
the reason i like all the things you listed OP (travel time, local markets, food etc etc) is not because they are realistic but because i simply enjoy the depth and complexity they create in a mmorpg. i particularly like local markets. i know diablo 2 isnt a mmorpg but trading and getting awesome deals was heaps fun. i know most people dont here like asian f2p games (i dont either) but perfect world had a pretty awesome catshop system were u could set up a shop anywhere and there was a huge local market thing going there. it felt like you were in a real like bazaar going from stall to stall to look for items and mats.
  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

12/15/12 4:31:32 PM#57
the reason i like all the things you listed OP (travel time, local markets, food etc etc) is not because they are realistic but because i simply enjoy the depth and complexity they create in a mmorpg. i particularly like local markets. i know diablo 2 isnt a mmorpg but trading and getting awesome deals was heaps fun. i know most people dont here like asian f2p games (i dont either) but perfect world had a pretty awesome catshop system were u could set up a shop anywhere and there was a huge local market thing going there. it felt like you were in a real like bazaar going from stall to stall to look for items and mats.
  User Deleted
12/15/12 6:42:01 PM#58

Realism may sound too drastic to some, I don't know if realism is the best word to describe what I want.

Cinematic quality / Believability / Immersion

(yes, I know what happened to that project)

I want to feel the weight of my character when I move, I don't want to feel forever trapped within a very basic selection of emotes and peculiar stances that don't do very much, to help convey my personality / attitude. I don't want pretty icons with counters to do most of the job for me, I want to have more and more control over my character's actions or I simply won't enjoy playing with them.

What ever... happened to all those little emotions? Why... would I want to kill some enemy? To make points? We don't care anymore, we are almost completely desensitized to many things because they don't mean anything anymore. We are not impressed by the evil nemesis, we laugh carelessly at it's crappiness and respawn in a nearby location, too annoyed to try again.

I envy my little sister that cried everytime LaraCroft was eaten by the wolves. It takes much more for us to barely care about her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2681

12/15/12 6:53:58 PM#59
Originally posted by Cuathon
-snip-

I usually agree with Castille so it seemed weird that she would make such an argument against added realism.

Dont mind me Im just stressed lol

Offtopic :

Hows your game making going Cua?

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  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 18929

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

 
OP  12/15/12 6:55:06 PM#60
Originally posted by XAPGames

I'm not sure realism is what I want.  I think it's more like detail.

 

If I'm playing a mage from the Zimblowme tribe on planet AngaOngo, and I have a ton of complex spells in my spellbook, that's not realism, but rather detailed fantasy.  It's the opposite of "dumbed down".

 

I like detail.  If it takes 15 components to make a clock, then it does.  I shouldn't be able to make one out of a piece of wood and a bar of copper and it should take longer than 2 seconds to produce.

 

BTW: Lots of good comments in the thread.  Interesting read.

Your post got me to thinking, and your choice of wording is better. I guess I'm not so interested in a more realistic virtual world, because so many things in real life such as long boring travel, working 8-5 and having to eat and drink all the time can't really be considered fun.

It is in in fact more detail that I'm looking for in my virtual worlds, I'd use the word complexity but that always triggers a firestorm of controversy about nothing in MMO's being complex, or if they are then it is unnecessarily so.

I enjoyed how in DAOC depending on the skills that I rolled on my character starting out (and influenced by his class) it impacted my choice of weapons, their effect of various enemies in the world, and even things like my weapons losing durability after being repaired too many times all added to the enjoyement.

More detail can lead to a more realistic game world, but doesn't really have to, it can just add to the activities one can do once they are there.

 

"In these forums 'honest' seems to be a symonym for 'hates the game just like I do'" - ohioastro
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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