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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/14/12 4:12:35 PM#241


Originally posted by fallenlords

Originally posted by Psychow Do people really "take legal action" over a couple hundred bucks? That's 15 minutes of a decent lawyers time...
It's kind of a matter of principle.  While the wounds are still fresh taking a course of action seems like a legitimate way forward.  But in the cold light of day, you realise it's not worth the hassle.   Instead you become bitter and twisted towards said company.   Again I would say if Funcom want some more people like me, willing to put the boot in at every opportunity and looking forward to their ultimate demise, carry on.  If they want to make things right, for once, offer a refund to the lifetime subs who are not happy.  It will probably be a handful of people who will take up the offer and it shows as a company they have changed.



If you were a player of The Secret World, what has changed in your experience of playing the game? What did you lose?

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/14/12 4:16:14 PM#242


Originally posted by banzai014
Well after Anarchy Online, Age of Conan and now The Secret World, it does appear that Funcom's policy is that there's one born every minute - although in this case not enough it would seem to prevent the game going F2P within months.

You have to wonder why the company keeps churning out MMOs instead of supporting them - because they burn all their old customers.

I really wish this wasn't my first MMO. I feel WoW has made a lot of people more savvy about how they spend their money.




What exactly have you lost in the transition to B2P?

How did Funcom burn you? Feel free to be specific.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  bbethel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/05
Posts: 178

12/14/12 4:32:10 PM#243

Reading some of these post make me laugh. I played TSW till I had no more content. I quit soon after that. Worse part for me is I had bough 2 6 month subs. Becouse I though I was going to play the game for atleast a year. I had no plans on comming back to the game till I herd that is it B2P. Now  I am comming back to the game.

From what I see its very simular to GW2 set up now. I dont see that as a bad thing.

If you bought the life time sub then you will be getting in game money and access to all the new content that everybody will have to pay extra for. So again I dont see what Life timers are complaining about.  I have a life time sub to STO and I love that I dont have to Pay for anything and they give me money to spend in there shop which I use all the time. 

  banzai014

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 35

 
OP  12/14/12 5:20:35 PM#244
Originally posted by TribeofOne
any lifetimer that demands and gets a refund should also have their characters and account deleted IMO demanding a refund for such a blatantly unwarranted reason is in my mind similar to doing a credit card charge back and most mmos delete accounts that chargeback

Acceptable for a full refund. I would like to blot this game from my memory, so delete my character and restore the hole in my wallet to when I was blissfully unaware of what TSW was.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/14/12 5:26:29 PM#245
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by TribeofOne
any lifetimer that demands and gets a refund should also have their characters and account deleted IMO demanding a refund for such a blatantly unwarranted reason is in my mind similar to doing a credit card charge back and most mmos delete accounts that chargeback

Acceptable for a full refund. I would like to blot this game from my memory, so delete my character and restore the hole in my wallet to when I was blissfully unaware of what TSW was.

Have you tried getting a refund, if you wait passed the legal 30 days then not getting a refund is your fault  not theirs.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Zyzra

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/07
Posts: 363

12/14/12 5:27:16 PM#246
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by TribeofOne
any lifetimer that demands and gets a refund should also have their characters and account deleted IMO demanding a refund for such a blatantly unwarranted reason is in my mind similar to doing a credit card charge back and most mmos delete accounts that chargeback

Acceptable for a full refund. I would like to blot this game from my memory, so delete my character and restore the hole in my wallet to when I was blissfully unaware of what TSW was.

My internet service cut out a few months back.  Was down for hours.  I called up the ISP the next day, and asked about it.  They were kind enough to take the whole month off my bill.

Point is I was incapable of using my internet during that time, yet instead of seeking legal counsel I made a friendly polite phone call and am happy with the results.

You are still able to play the game you paid time for.  You literally have not lost the ability to play.  Your characters weren't even wiped, Darkfall style.  And yet you're going to file a lawsuit?

 

I would actually like you to consult with a lawyer, personally.  It'd be funny to hear you be angry about how you were laughed out of a law office.

  Derros

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 1010

12/14/12 5:31:17 PM#247
Originally posted by Zyzra
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by TribeofOne
any lifetimer that demands and gets a refund should also have their characters and account deleted IMO demanding a refund for such a blatantly unwarranted reason is in my mind similar to doing a credit card charge back and most mmos delete accounts that chargeback

Acceptable for a full refund. I would like to blot this game from my memory, so delete my character and restore the hole in my wallet to when I was blissfully unaware of what TSW was.

My internet service cut out a few months back.  Was down for hours.  I called up the ISP the next day, and asked about it.  They were kind enough to take the whole month off my bill.

Point is I was incapable of using my internet during that time, yet instead of seeking legal counsel I made a friendly polite phone call and am happy with the results.

You are still able to play the game you paid time for.  You literally have not lost the ability to play.  Your characters weren't even wiped, Darkfall style.  And yet you're going to file a lawsuit?

 

I would actually like you to consult with a lawyer, personally.  It'd be funny to hear you be angry about how you were laughed out of a law office.

Thats the funny thing, there are, to my knowledge, literally NO damages.  Just some financial loss from not waiting to buy months later, of course that could said for most games, especially in the age of sales on Steam and other such distribution systems. 

  SoulStain

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/12
Posts: 204

12/14/12 6:28:59 PM#248
I guess the OP would rather Funcm just shut the game down.
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6744

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

12/14/12 6:41:05 PM#249
Your simplest form of litigation is to prove "misrepresentation" of the product you bought.Then find any past claims made by the developer to support this.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Woopin

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/14/07
Posts: 1029

12/14/12 6:42:26 PM#250
Enjoy paying the legal fees when you loose. And funcoms too ;)

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1084

12/14/12 7:21:54 PM#251

My only gripe as lifetimer is that we don't get every expansion "DLC" as free.

We have to spend the points we get for lifetime subscription on the content packs which are sold at non-discounted prices.

I was expecting to get the whole game and the upcoming content packs in a single purchase :o

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/14/12 7:48:43 PM#252


Originally posted by GoldenArrow
My only gripe as lifetimer is that we don't get every expansion "DLC" as free.

We have to spend the points we get for lifetime subscription on the content packs which are sold at non-discounted prices.

I was expecting to get the whole game and the upcoming content packs in a single purchase :o




You'll get enough points to buy the DLC. Unless you spend all your points, every month on content that's already in the cash shop.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  aiwe2143

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 73

12/14/12 7:56:42 PM#253

both me and my husband  have lifetime accounts to this game and both approve of this choice.  I am getting what i paid for plus more since we'll be getting the points every month and enough points to pay for every expansion coming out.  We would have had to shell out the cash for those seperately at any rate if they hadn't changed to this model.

The method they are using is similar to what Lord of the Rings online uses and I have been a lifetimer on that one since beta and have only seen it get better.

just my opinion on the matter.

  fallenlords

Novice Member

Joined: 5/16/10
Posts: 700

12/15/12 2:21:30 AM#254
Originally posted by lizardbones

If you were a player of The Secret World, what has changed in your experience of playing the game? What did you lose?

 

If money has changed hands you have a contract.   I think anybody of a reasonable nature would argue that somebody signing up for a lifetime subscription, does not sign up for a subscription period of 7 months.   The reason they have changed the business model is because things aren't going so well, that's not the customers fault.  So it would be a nice gesture on the part of the company to not just dictate changes to their loyal supporters, but to at least engage them.   The majority of people will be fine with the changes, anybody that is not happy should have more than one option available to them.   As mentioned before it doesn't matter if the new deal is better, worse or the same.  It's about giving the customer the opportunity to decide what is best for them. 

  birdycephon

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/09
Posts: 1327

Not Safe For Woona (NSFW)

12/15/12 2:23:25 AM#255
This legal action is so much fail. People who agree to this should be ashamed of themselves.
  Yizle

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 530

12/15/12 2:29:35 AM#256
Originally posted by banzai014

As some of you may be aware, Funcom's The Secret World today shifted from a subscription only model to B2P (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/12/the-secret-world-officially-abolishes-subscriptions/). This was a completely unannounced and sudden change: the only warning given was a "prank" youtube video (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/10/the-secret-worlds-dev-video-blog-begins-end-of-days-chronicle/).

This leaves players with existing subscription time and lifetime subscribers in the lurch. In this new model, players that purchase the box price have full access to the game in its current state. Players can then subscribe for $15/month for 1200 Funcom points ($10 in real money) that expire after 6 months needed to buy future DLC (slated to be released in monthly installments costing $5-10),  a fluff vanity item of the month, an xp booster item and a 10% discount on the item shop. Existing subscribers are being switched to this plan for the remainder of their subscription time, without a refund option. Remember that these subscribers also had to buy the game box in the beginning.

This is not what subscribers paid for.  The deal they signed up for has been changed without their consent or prior knowledge. The terms of agreement have been pulled out from under them. Subscribers paid for access to updates ("DLC") but also access to the game itself. In the P2P model you simply could not log in if you were'nt subscribed. Now that you can get full access for free, the value of the subscription has been cheapened.

The services subscribers get with the B2P model are worthless. $15 per month for $10 worth in limited time points, whereas a B2P player can buy DLC each month for cheaper ($5) and have exactly the same access to the game. $15 (sub per month) > $10 (in virtual Funcom monies) > $5 per month for DLC you need to keep up with other players.

I feel that the subscription option is only there so that they don't have to refund people with existing subs and of course lifetimers. The sub has no value and is a ripoff. A sub gave players both access to new content and to the game itself. Since everyone has access to the game now for the box price, the sub has lost part of its value and so people with existing sub time should demand a refund. I would really like to know what a lawyer's legal opinion of this change would be.

I have contacted Massively and MMORPG.com suggesting they write an article investigating the legal implications of TSW's B2P change or otherwise recommend me a lawyer specializing in this area that I could talk to. I hope this way we can get something started moving forward and clarify exactly  what legal recourse existing subscribers have. My demands are fair: I only ask that players get the option of having their extant subscription time refunded, since the subscription service has so wholly changed from what they originally intended to pay for (i.e. which in large part was paying for access to the game itself).

LMAO. GL with that.

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

12/15/12 3:00:20 AM#257

I finished up a case in court recently. The judge threw out the corporations TOS and they were forced to pay me. A TOS / EULA are not law nor contracts. That said, it is still possible for a company to protect themselves to a certain degree using either. Either way, once you can prove an injured / violated party, you are golden.

 

Usually you'll find those terms and agreements irrelevant unless the user / customer has broken the LAW (this includes violating a companys rights, as in the case of Hotz).

 

TOS' agreement types that state something like "subject to change without notice" actually negates the entire reason for an agreement. These are also very different from contracts and, contracts cannot be subject to change without notice so... figure it out.

 

Bottom line: You might be able to get a refund on remaining unused subscription time because of the drastic change in the service, providing you have already attempted to negotiate a refund with the company and have been denied or ignored.

 

+ Most likely it's not financially worth your time to persue this but, if you have the time then sure, might as well. Ironically people here might tell you it's a waste of time, while wasting time telling you it's a waste of time, unlike you though, they have no potential of any financial gain, they're just wasting time.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 5181

12/15/12 3:05:27 AM#258
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

How so? You will get 1200 points a month for as long as the game will be running.

So nothing will change for the Lifetimers.

In fact, they now will get actually more, like a free item each month and other perks.

With the 1200 points a month they can buy all the DLC's that will release and have plenty of spare points to spend on stuff in the Store!

So seriously.... lifetimers are actually now even better off than they were before!

/shrug!  This whole thread is jus beyond silly!

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

12/15/12 3:08:50 AM#259

What a silly, trite, and frivolous lawsuit that would be.  So, a company has no right to develop and sell their product as they see fit?  You paid the subscription for the time that you have played so far.  They've just now made it so you no longer have to pay your subscription.

 

There are many things in this world that require lawsuits to make reparations, unfortunately.  Things like:  Loss of life, destruction of property, ruination of the environment, costing people their livelihoods, fraud, etc.  This is not one of those things.  Get over yourself.  If you don't like how a company is doing business, stop giving them your money.  Simple as that.  Stop wasting taxpayer dollars with such nonsense.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  platonicx

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/12
Posts: 22

12/15/12 3:14:20 AM#260
Returning player . Played 2 months after lunch .. then went for a break coz of collage stuff. Bought a life time yesterday. Problem?
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