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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  saden99

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/07
Posts: 4

12/12/12 7:49:03 PM#121

Why would you even buy a lifetime sub in a game like this? It has limited content and not much in the way of player growth...they HAD to do some kind of F2P or B2P [although I didn't expect it] model.

 

People need to calm down. They were so convinced just a few months ago that lifetime subscriptions were a good deal (you can still read forum posts that talk about it). Some of them even have people saying outright that it's a good deal and there's no way TSW will go F2P...hmmm

 

The game has never really been that big or that good. You can eat the $200 lifetime subscription payment and just get over it...seriously...$200. That's what 13 months? Or maybe 15-16 months using the other subscription pricing? It's disappointing, but legal action usually requires some kind of intent. This is an online game where player-interests correlated to population [and other factors] is highly misunderstood so I'm sure they had no intent from the get go when they offered the lifetime subs.

 

I believe there have been lifetime subs for games that are now completely shut-down. Be lucky they aren't shutting it down.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

12/12/12 7:54:33 PM#122
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

     I have no idea why anyone did this for this game to begin with......Right of fthe bat they were into full cash grab mode...Some gamers just cant help themselves though.....You could put dog doo doo in a box and tell them its a new game and they'd drop whatever you ask for it.

  svandy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/31/11
Posts: 155

12/12/12 7:57:09 PM#123

So if I follow this right... OP and others made the rookie mistake of paying for a lifetime sub for an MMORPG. Said MMORPG changes their payment model so a monthly sub is no longer required, instead earning money through DLC. Lifetime members are not only given enough "funcom points" to purchase the DLC and then some, but can choose to allocate those points to other items at the store (with a 20% discount), and people want to SUE over this?

If anyone is losing out, it's Funcom. If you liked the game enough to sub, wether lifetime or otherwise, why would you be so against the Devs/company making a move to improve the future of the game and at the same time give you MORE than what you agreed to pay for?

And as far as legal action - until you can show some kind of written contract that shows that your sub, lifetime or otherwise, was supposed to do anything other than give you access to the game (other than pre-order items you will have already received), you will be laughed out of the courtroom if you can even find a lawyer so down on his luck that he will ruin his reputation to pursue your "case".

Currently playing: Marvel Heroes, DayZ

Waiting for: Repopulation, H1Z1

  mmo72

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 10

12/12/12 7:58:15 PM#124

Worst part is they were still selling lifetime subs as of yesterday , yesterday , under the old conditions advertising it as making you not have to pay the sub fee.

Whey they knew they were about to get rid of the sub fee.

Funcom never has known how to run a business , their stock price is prime evidence of it.

Games they can make ,  PR/business decisons they are one of the worst at.

  rwyan

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/03
Posts: 433

12/12/12 8:00:54 PM#125

As a lifer, I'm GLAD funcom made this move.  The game was so lively upon launch and I'm looking forward to seeing more players in game.

 

You still get the content for free.... you just have to buy it with the points you will now get... for free!  So yes, there is now an extra step but I feel like I've been fairly compensated.

 

 

  huskie77

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/06
Posts: 368

12/12/12 8:17:42 PM#126
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Roxtarr

So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe?  How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?

IANAL but my understanding is that legal systems in most parts of the world see click-through argeements as being more like a handshake than a contract - that you can't hold people to anything more than common sense since they don't get to see the fine print until after the box has been opened.

I can't imagine that arguing that the company has devalued what you paid for can go anywhere.  You don't own anything in the game so it can't be devalued or lost.  Time already played is already delivered, so there's no loss there.   I think the best someone could do is argue that a bait and switch has occurred and that the game the company is providing now is not similar to the one that was promised, even beyond the normal "game experience may change" warning on the box and that there should be a refund of the remaining subscription time.

But if you bought a lifetime subscription ... well, unless the company promised how long that lifetime would be, then caveat emptor. 

In business law, a handshake IS a contract. As is a verbal agreement and even just failing to deny an offer verbally. The law is written in favor of corporations, not individuals.

A click to agree popup window is no less a contract than a thirty page document signed in person.

  huskie77

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/06
Posts: 368

12/12/12 8:25:42 PM#127
Originally posted by Weretigar

I brought up the first statement only because it's even more silly to think that tos=god in mmo's. Did you know Aeria games has changed their tos 10+ times since the first time i've signed it and no ones ever told me about it? Is it legal to change A signed contract after it's been altered? No to all of them ohh yeah that's because TOS is not A LEGALLY BUINDING CONTRACT WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERMENT. 

It IS legal to change the contract as often as they want. Each time you sign the new one, you negate the old one. You can choose not to agree to the new one and you lose access to the software.

The case you cited in South Korea is a great example. It was not over the TOS, but rather sales and refund policy.  Blizzard has a NO REFUND policy, which was what South Korea stepped in to address. South Korean law has a consumer protection caveat that states that refunds must be given for any product that has a defect not caused by the consumer. Blizzard's server woes caused that defect and therefore their policy was superceded by the laws of the nation.

Contracts may not supercede the laws in the country of either party. Interestingly enough, counter to layman speculation, when one element of a contract is voided, the whole contract is not itself void.

  Siveria

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 1162

12/12/12 8:32:03 PM#128
Originally posted by Derros

Caveat freaking Emptor, YOU bought an unproven product, YOU knew the history of funcom, YOU took a gamble and lost.  What do you want funcom to do?  continue to persue a failed monitization strategy just so you could "get your monies worth?"  What, did you want them to do what TOR did with thier F2P model?   

 

What are you gonna do, hire a lawyer to get $83 (factoring out the months you already played) back?  With all the lawer fees and court fees and stuff, you'd be lucky to get back $15. 

Actually with what they cost per hour, he'd prob lose all he would have gained after hiring a lawyer for 1-2 hour(s). so its really not worth it. But still, if you buy a lifetime sub in any of todays themepark mmo's I just laugh my ass off.

Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

A. Proven right (if something bad happens)

or

B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)

Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  minttunator

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/09
Posts: 132

12/13/12 1:30:40 AM#129
Originally posted by rwyan

As a lifer, I'm GLAD funcom made this move.  The game was so lively upon launch and I'm looking forward to seeing more players in game.

You still get the content for free.... you just have to buy it with the points you will now get... for free!  So yes, there is now an extra step but I feel like I've been fairly compensated. 

Yeah, most sane lifers seem to be pretty happy with this - we're still getting all the content, but it seems likely we'll have some extra points left over as well (assuming the average content update costs less than 1200 points), which we didn't have before. :)

  bestever

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/26/11
Posts: 609

12/13/12 1:37:41 AM#130
QQ fest 2013. This will help the game and get more people to check it out and you want to QQ about the lifetime sub which your still gettting. Wow people these days. I just don't get it. You will never ever have to buy a dlc ever and have some funcom points left over. Man get over it.
  Thillian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3228

12/13/12 1:43:35 AM#131
Originally posted by Tjed
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

This is interesting.  Any reading material that you could link?

Just shows the OP knows jack***t about legal issues.

EULA is binding in Europe as well and a common legal practice. Of course EULA, or any other Terms and Conditions, cannot be in violation with legislation of the given country, but everything else is binding to all Parties.

REALITY CHECK

  Reizla

Elite Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 3032

MMORPGs are no longer about the mass multi-user anymore *sadly*

12/13/12 1:50:48 AM#132
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe?  How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?

Well, there are, but most crap that's written in any EULA is not valid within the bounderies of the EU. And if OP lives in the EU I think he even has a fair chance on succeeding with his claim since FunCom is a EU company, bound to the same EU laws...

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  aslan132

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/07
Posts: 307

12/13/12 1:58:49 AM#133
Forewarning this is going to sound trolly, but i certainly dont mean it to be. That being said, anyone who bought a "lifetime subscription" and expected the game never to be B2P or F2P was delusional. Its a fantastic game, but this was always going to happen. Would it be any better if it were a year from now? Or 2? Doesnt matter when it happens, it was ALWAYS part of the plan. There has never and will never be any reason to get a "lifetime anything" that has to do with such a changing industry. No MMO will stay unchanged for a "lifetime". Least of all a single player, story driven game.
  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

12/13/12 2:03:13 AM#134
I have a lifetime sub nut I don't feel shafted. As long as I get my monthly points and items plus CS discount I don't see the problem. Maybe the area of monthly subs is over and people prefer other pricing models. Personally I prefer P2P anytime but if most players don't like it I have to adapt.
  theoneandonly

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 103

Life - the one and only MMO. All the rest will FAIL!!!!

12/13/12 2:10:42 AM#135

best B2P model on a market

well whiners will still whine

  Whitebeards

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/11
Posts: 750

12/13/12 2:36:57 AM#136
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

TSW life time isn't worthless. Inform yourself please. I ended up buying GM pack yesterday because it is a great deal. Infact life time subscribers got even a better deal with new changes.

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 994

12/13/12 2:41:16 AM#137
Originally posted by Whitebeards
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

TSW life time isn't worthless. Inform yourself please. I ended up buying GM pack yesterday because it is a great deal. Infact life time subscribers got even a better deal with new changes.

Cannot predict the future but so far I can agree. At least for me it does not look like a bad deal. 

  Caldrin

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 4138

12/13/12 2:50:19 AM#138

You will not get anywhere taking legal action.. it would probally not even get into most courts.

At the end of the day they are providing a service and they chance change said service whenever they want. Gon on OP try and sue them and waste your time LOL.

 

To me it seems like a decent deal and I brought the game and subbed for a few months..

My 3D models
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  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

12/13/12 2:58:09 AM#139

For those that say EULAs are binding: not so.

In the US at least, software and other media EULAs have been repeatedly found to be legally defective on several points, mostly relating to contract law, but also veering into areas of consumer protection and "first use/fair use" of media.

One thing the software industry has been doing, is settling quietly with people who do file suit. Very rarely do these kinds of cases go all the way to verdict and there is a very good reason: the software companies are scared shitless of the ramifications of possible verdicts.

On the few occasions EULAs have gone to verdict, they have almost uniformly "lost" and found defective on one or more points.

One I do recall is with Autodesk and some guy trying to resell copies of Autocad, which supposedly violated terms of the EULA. That one did go to verdict and the company lost, huge.

 

The only reason people think EULAs are binding, is because they are rarely challenged. (Not many people are going to sue over a $60 video/comp game.)

 

  hfztt

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 623

12/13/12 3:06:06 AM#140
Originally posted by Reizla
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Originally posted by banzai014
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

The EULA means nothing in Europe

So there are no Terms and Conditions for players in Europe?  How can you plan an MMO without agreeing to terms and conditions?

Well, there are, but most crap that's written in any EULA is not valid within the bounderies of the EU. And if OP lives in the EU I think he even has a fair chance on succeeding with his claim since FunCom is a EU company, bound to the same EU laws...

Well, I still dont think it will help in this case. What EU law provides is a protection against using EULA's to give the user worse conditions that the base law provides them. So if this somehow breaks some EU law, sure it will help, but if not teh EULA stands.

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