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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Taking legal action against The Secret World

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382 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17224

12/12/12 6:09:06 PM#61
Originally posted by banzai014

As some of you may be aware "etc"

Really? This is the battle you are choosing to fight? it's so inconsequential. You really want to take them to court over small bits of money?

And are you suing them for your refund? Why don't you just demand a refund (in a professional way and not a ranting way) and see if you get it.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

12/12/12 6:09:39 PM#62
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

So then I'm sure you can provide examples of developers being sued and losing after switching from subscription only to B2P/F2P with a shop or sub option.  Pardon me if I don't wait too long for you to find non existent examples.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

12/12/12 6:10:08 PM#63
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Kenze

 


Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Ortwig

Originally posted by ph3n0m73 ahh so glad this was one that i didnt buy..knew it was more trouble than its worth....anyhow feel bad for you subbers to be let down like this.
Not a let down at all -- it's an excellent deal for me (as a sub) and for lifetimers.  OP doesn't understand the change. http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=62789
How exactly is it a better deal than previously?

 

As I understand before they had to pay for NOTHING, now they will have to potentially pay for DLC.



nope FC is giving the the points(free) to pay for any DLC coming if they want too or they could just spend the points on other cash shop stuff. They are losing nothing, but their minds, it seems

Yes, but remember that you used to get points to spend on the cs before and had no dlc to buy. Now you have to buy the dlc so the content is not part of the deal.

Stop confusing the matter.

  1. Subs and lifers get free points every month (they add up)
  2. When a DLC comes along subs and lifers can use the points to buy it, and probably have plenty left over.  $5 is the quoted price of the DLC, but whatever.
Simple.

The thing here is that you have to compare it to what it was before. Before a lifer would get ALL the content and some points to spend on the shop. Now you get more points but you also have to buy these DLC packs(content), so you DON'T get all the content. You have to decide between content or shop.

 

Were did you get that $5 quote? it's not in that link.


  User Deleted
12/12/12 6:10:40 PM#64
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
I wonder what the ratio is to wins/losses for EULA's.  Anyone know?

Off the top of my head, no.  But EULA's in general have never been upheld that I'm aware of.  The courts have always chosen to rule on only specific parts of specific EULA's for specific companies.  As for win/loos ratios, They are probably mostly all won in court, because companies are pretty good at knowing when to fight something and when to just settle or change the agreement quietly to make people happy.  As a result, those that do get to court tend to have strong defenses.

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

12/12/12 6:11:00 PM#65

New Content for the Future

Periodically we will release packs of DLC (Downloadable Content). These updates, called Issues in The Secret World, contain new content, such as more Auxiliary Weapons, new missions and story arcs. These packs are fully optional and can be purchased normally or for the Bonus Points that are included in the optional Membership, as well as with the Grandmaster Lifetime service.

The first DLC will start selling in January 2013, and is the main storyline of issue #5. This will sell for $5, however this content is already fully unlocked for anyone who has a full game account registered before the end of December 2012.

Regular patches with free content and updates and enhancements to the core game will still continue.

 

 

Taken right from Darkdaysarecoming.com       or    TheSecretWorld.com

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  huskie77

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/06
Posts: 368

12/12/12 6:11:09 PM#66
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

To be fair, ToS and EULA's haven't really been tested in court.  Generally, whenever legal action is initiated or hinted at, the cmopanies quietly settle the matter or change the policy in question, rather than risk a jury trial setting a bad (from their prospective) precedent.

The most likely outcome is that in the next few days to weeks, Funcom will indeed change some of the details, particularly in regards to what lifetime subscribers get.

Usually the TOS and EULA both require mediation instead of trial. This is why it is "quietly" settled in addition to the fact that these agreements are basically steel traps that cover almost any eventuality. Lawyers live to create such documents.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1047

12/12/12 6:11:18 PM#67
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by Ortwig
Originally posted by FromHell
Originally posted by Teala
See, it is for this very reason that lifetime subs are worthless.

They MADE it worthless by giving away almost everything for free which I paid 200$ for.

 

Today I´m fed up with MMOs, look around, all cash grabs, no exceptions.

And the last bastion beside EvE, TSW catered to the cheapskates. Thanks for nothing. Now the 30$ lolkids will try to do investigation quests and fill up the chat with ""lollzthisgamesucks""whatis goin on lolzzz"

 

sad day

Please go read the FAQ.  It's the best B2P model I've seen.

it's great, only for everyone who didn't buy the 200$ lifetime sub on release.

I already HAD my B2P with that!

now I get loads of points but I don't buy clothing to play dolly!!!

you tell me how to spend those points, others get to play the whole game for ridiculous 30$ now. THANKS FC!!!

You're still covered and basically get content updates for free like you had before PLUS some added stuff -- item of the month and stuff in the shop,   You're in a BETTER position after the change.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1826

12/12/12 6:14:31 PM#68
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

So then I'm sure you can provide examples of developers being sued and losing after switching from subscription only to B2P/F2P with a shop or sub option.  Pardon me if I don't wait too long for you to find non existent examples.

do you know how "burden of proof" works?

for you to claim it can't happen means you need to prove it to me, it goes both ways

 

There have been many cases where the EULA got thrown out because the EULA had not been read before purchase.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3204

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

12/12/12 6:15:15 PM#69


Originally posted by CalmOceans
If the TOS said that your life belongs to Blizzard in Blizzard's TOS, you would call that legally binding? Do you understand the difference between TOS and written law?

Yes. Are you implying your signature is not worth the paper it is written on?

The only exception *I* would countenance is not seeing the TOS & EULA before signing. Remember, one always has the option to NOT agree to the terms. Few ever do, though, so they go crying to the courts because of their own lack of responsibility.

"Help me!" "Save me from my stupidity!"

I happen to believe in the law of natural selection :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  UNH0LYEV1L

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/09
Posts: 413

12/12/12 6:15:21 PM#70
Its going to be pretty hard convincing a court that your getting screwed when your actually getting more value and more perks from this.  Instead of freaking the f out you should read what Life timers are getting.


Spiritsever - AR/Ele - The Secret World
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  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1047

12/12/12 6:15:30 PM#71
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

 Were did you get that $5 quote? it's not in that link.

See Rayshe's quote above.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

12/12/12 6:17:00 PM#72
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

So then I'm sure you can provide examples of developers being sued and losing after switching from subscription only to B2P/F2P with a shop or sub option.  Pardon me if I don't wait too long for you to find non existent examples.

do you know how "burden of proof" works?

for you to claim it can't happen means you need to prove it to me, it goes both ways

I can give you plenty of examples where companies switched payment models and had no legal problems.  You have zero MMO examples to go with your statement:

 

they get thrown out in every court every time, TOS or EULA means nothing in almost all cases

  korent1991

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

12/12/12 6:17:27 PM#73

You can do nothing... If you read the terms of agreement (every mmorpgs TOA has this) you'd know that you just agreed to basically anything they throw at you and you can't make any legal actions about their game changes. The game is their ownership and so is the account on which you are playing. You just bought the right to play on that account for as long as you decide to keep it active and make no violations of their rules.

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1826

12/12/12 6:18:38 PM#74
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by CalmOceans
If the TOS said that your life belongs to Blizzard in Blizzard's TOS, you would call that legally binding? Do you understand the difference between TOS and written law?


Yes. Are you implying your signature is not worth the paper it is written on?

 

The only exception *I* would countenance is not seeing the TOS & EULA before signing. Remember, one always has the option to NOT agree to the terms. Few ever do, though, so they go crying to the courts because of their own lack of responsibility.

"Help me!" "Save me from my stupidity!"

I happen to believe in the law of natural selection :)

A signature, is again, ONLY legally binding, if the paper that is being signed is within the confines of the law.

If I let you sign a contract that I can kill you, it is no longer legally binding, because the contract is not within the confines of the law.

If there is breach of contract when the TOS or EULA changes, it is not longer viable and will be ingored in court, if the EULA itself is not within the law, it will be ignored, if the EULA was presented after purchase, it will often be ignored, etc.

  User Deleted
12/12/12 6:18:50 PM#75
Originally posted by huskie77
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Roxtarr
Re-read the Terms and Conditions you agreed to and you may find you have no ground to stand on.

To be fair, ToS and EULA's haven't really been tested in court.  Generally, whenever legal action is initiated or hinted at, the cmopanies quietly settle the matter or change the policy in question, rather than risk a jury trial setting a bad (from their prospective) precedent.

The most likely outcome is that in the next few days to weeks, Funcom will indeed change some of the details, particularly in regards to what lifetime subscribers get.

Usually the TOS and EULA both require mediation instead of trial. This is why it is "quietly" settled in addition to the fact that these agreements are basically steel traps that cover almost any eventuality. Lawyers live to create such documents.

Mediation doesn't mean a party can't initiate a lawsuite or some other kind of class action, especially when the normal grounds for such a suite is to dispute the contract itself.

  Ortwig

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/12
Posts: 1047

12/12/12 6:19:53 PM#76
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

The thing here is that you have to compare it to what it was before. Before a lifer would get ALL the content and some points to spend on the shop. Now you get more points but you also have to buy these DLC packs(content), so you DON'T get all the content. You have to decide between content or shop.

 

Were did you get that $5 quote? it's not in that link.

Yesterday, they got  free updates but had to pay money in the cash shop.

Today they get points for free updates and with the leftover, can buy cash shop items.  Plus discounts in the shop and the item-of-the-month.

Looks like today's deal is better than yesterday's.

  huskie77

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/06
Posts: 368

12/12/12 6:21:42 PM#77

You agree to the terms of service(a contract of use) when you install the software and/or use it. It does not matter if you read the contract any more than it matters if you read your mortgage contract or car loan contract. You agree to it, it's enforceable unless the terms violate your legal rights. The reason courts don't hear cases on this is because the terms of use state you agree to mediation. The only time this would go to a court of law is if the company was sued over illegal contracts.

 

  Daddydazzle

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 409

12/12/12 6:22:59 PM#78

lol @ this thread

have fun looking for legal rep against funcom or EA. "demands are fair" lolwut.. who are you to make demands?

if, and that's a huge if, you were able to actually push this through to the courts and you had any kind of viable case, they would string this up for so long it wouldn't even be funny.

your case is what? you feel cheated? other games have done this with no issue. others would actually come into and defend, they would reference other lifetime sub models, they would quote subject to change, they would.. etc. etc. etc. 4 years later your free lawyer would still be working? this isn't small claims court or anything.

almost every person who saw this game coming down the pipes knew it would drop to some sort of F2P status (yes i know what B2P is). and everyone should have known it would adjust the lifetimes to the new system like other lifetime game models. is there something you don't get access to with your lifetime sub? how are you cheated? why are you entitled to anything other then what they gave you?

if you're that butt hurt over this i'll help ya out here. what you can do is come up with a great idea, patent it, license it out, make a crap ton of money, go to the open market and buy up the company, give yourself your petty refund you feel so entitled to, and then go on to bring on a lawsuit against McDs for skimping you a 1/4 of an oz in your morning coffee when you paid for 12!!!

or you can drop all this garbage and just be happy more people will be playing the game.

Experience is the best teacher.. if you can afford the tuition.

  CalmOceans

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/06/11
Posts: 1826

12/12/12 6:23:58 PM#79
You know a court has the right to override the law too right.
  User Deleted
12/12/12 6:24:03 PM#80
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by CalmOceans
If the TOS said that your life belongs to Blizzard in Blizzard's TOS, you would call that legally binding? Do you understand the difference between TOS and written law?


Yes. Are you implying your signature is not worth the paper it is written on?

 

The only exception *I* would countenance is not seeing the TOS & EULA before signing. Remember, one always has the option to NOT agree to the terms. Few ever do, though, so they go crying to the courts because of their own lack of responsibility.

"Help me!" "Save me from my stupidity!"

I happen to believe in the law of natural selection :)

Actually, the most common reasons these TOS and EULA trials get contested and won are based on the fact that you can't sign away your rights to certain things, and that the way those contracts are presented make getting a refund on the product or service very difficult.  Stuff like, buying a game at the store, taking it home to install and register only to decide you don't agree to the contracts.  The store won't take back opened software and there are rarely ways of getting a company to directly issue a refund without a lot of hassle.

The main problem is that you aren't presented the contract until after you've paid for it, and by then your refund options are often limited.  

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