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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Final Fantasy XIV: Is FFXIV: A Realm Reborn a Dark Horse?

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62 posts found
  Illyssia

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/09
Posts: 1523

10/04/12 6:20:21 AM#41
The problem is, Michael, FF online games are written by Japanese games designers for the Japanese gaming tastes. That means a game that can be hit or miss with Western players used to playing WoW. Undoubtedly XIV had a rock launch, but SE made the game F2P while they sorted the game out and relaunched a superior game. However, it isn't WoW or GW2, so many will still simply not get it. Is it time for an MMORPG re-review, yes it is. But if it is re-reviewed then it is important to get a reviewer this time who likes FF games, isn't put off by a non-Western mindset to the gaming at times, and plays the game solidly for 3-4 weeks to see what is actually going on.
  Raral

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/12
Posts: 12

10/04/12 7:44:09 AM#42
Most likely they will not make their money back they may be able to get some people back i highly doudt this game will get it due even if they revamp the whole thing no mmo that crashed so bad has ever even with fixs been able to get past that post lunch fail. AoC is a good example lovely game but has never fully recovered from it failure at lunch
  guin10

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/12
Posts: 21

10/04/12 7:54:06 AM#43
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

Oh look, a completely CG trailer. That's totally the best way to show off a new and improved version of the thing people hated most, THE FRIGGIN GAMEPLAY.

Not that it wasn't pretty, SQE certainly knows how to make a nice cinematic. Honestly they should just stick to making movies. WTB FFX version of Advent Children.

You're joking right? There are already gameplay videos on youtube.

  aaoren

Novice Member

Joined: 2/22/11
Posts: 5

10/04/12 9:05:53 AM#44

I started on this game back at pre-launch and play it for a bit after every update before returning to other titles. There really isn't anything posted above that isn't true. The game at release was a abject failure. Initially having to search through endless retainers, lack of mail system, extremely high delays in menu, NPC, and battle command interface, etc., etc. I also can't leave out the high system requirements that at the time of launch alienated a large portion of the potential fan base. To date, some of those items they have remedied and some are still a point of aggrevation.

While anyone who has played this game to this point has a right to be disappointed and highly skeptical, I would preach patience for the upcoming version. There has been enough progress to this point to have some guarded optimism that they can make this a game worthy of our time and more importantly money. The beta version will be here soon enough and we will get to make our own impressions from the work in progress. My particular concern for the relaunch isn't the aim of their goals for the features that they plan on implementing but more the timeline that they are holding to. I simply do not think they will have everything that would be necessary to make a "A" title completed by the intended launch timeframe.

One thing I hope that the development team and those making the financial decisions realize is that the MMO landscape has drastically changed in the past two years. At the FFXIV release, MMO options were increasing but still fairly limited where most options were subscription based. The market is now saturated and FTP is more prevalent than not. The FF brand name and PS3 availability will help get gamers in the door but the subscription system may lead many to choose other options.

  alyosha17

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/10
Posts: 163

10/04/12 11:25:06 AM#45
Originally posted by aaoren

One thing I hope that the development team and those making the financial decisions realize is that the MMO landscape has drastically changed in the past two years. At the FFXIV release, MMO options were increasing but still fairly limited where most options were subscription based. The market is now saturated and FTP is more prevalent than not. The FF brand name and PS3 availability will help get gamers in the door but the subscription system may lead many to choose other options.

The landscape has changed in terms of gameplay expectations, but subsciption games have not gone out of fashion.  Players are more than willing to pay for a good game.  There are millions and millions of subscription-payers in the MMO marketplace, and most people who can afford a computer to run FFXIV can commit the money to pay a monthly.

Subscription model is least of FFXIV's worries.

The problem with FFXIV will be, upon release, it will be hailed as another boring WoW clone.  Unimaginative.  Uninnovative.  etc.

Basically all the redeeming features of FFXIV will be the things it released with 2 years ago.  Version 2.0 will just bring some functionality to the gameplay, but otherwise do nothing remotely interesting/innovative.

What S.E. fail to realise is that it shouldn't take 2 years to make a UI and add some quest hubs.  And quiet frankly there are a lot of games released recently, and on the horizon, which have really shown consumers that they don't have to simply go around passively digesting these quest-grind MMOs, which is what Square have made a point of emphasising FFXIV will be, as though it's a good thing,

 

 

  Silok

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 742

10/04/12 1:59:17 PM#46
Originally posted by alyosha17
Originally posted by aaoren

One thing I hope that the development team and those making the financial decisions realize is that the MMO landscape has drastically changed in the past two years. At the FFXIV release, MMO options were increasing but still fairly limited where most options were subscription based. The market is now saturated and FTP is more prevalent than not. The FF brand name and PS3 availability will help get gamers in the door but the subscription system may lead many to choose other options.

The landscape has changed in terms of gameplay expectations, but subsciption games have not gone out of fashion.  Players are more than willing to pay for a good game.  There are millions and millions of subscription-payers in the MMO marketplace, and most people who can afford a computer to run FFXIV can commit the money to pay a monthly.

Subscription model is least of FFXIV's worries.

The problem with FFXIV will be, upon release, it will be hailed as another boring WoW clone.  Unimaginative.  Uninnovative.  etc.

Basically all the redeeming features of FFXIV will be the things it released with 2 years ago.  Version 2.0 will just bring some functionality to the gameplay, but otherwise do nothing remotely interesting/innovative.

What S.E. fail to realise is that it shouldn't take 2 years to make a UI and add some quest hubs.  And quiet frankly there are a lot of games released recently, and on the horizon, which have really shown consumers that they don't have to simply go around passively digesting these quest-grind MMOs, which is what Square have made a point of emphasising FFXIV will be, as though it's a good thing,

 

It didnt take them 2 years to make a ui and hub quest. They rebuilt the game from scratch, this is a entirely new game. I even heard they use a new engine.

Now this is simple, some will stay with a closed mentality about this game and others will try it for what is it. A new game.

We will see the result.

  Cyrael

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/10
Posts: 60

10/04/12 2:20:37 PM#47
The gameplay model is old. I never intend to play a quest-hub based game again. I really wanted to see FFXIV succeed, but not by propping up outdated mechanics.
  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 857

10/04/12 5:47:32 PM#48

      Personally, I'm not too worried about the hub-based questing because they're still going to have leve quests and company leve quests, both of which they said they're adding to. They're additionally going to have all new storyline (via company missions), and a pretty bad ass one at that, if the current story is any indication.  They'll be keeping Hamlet defense, chocobo escort, plus all new dungeons along with the old ones, primals you can fight, capture, and summon in battle as a Free Company, and they've stated in interviews MULTIPLE TIMES that there is still more content they have yet to reveal.

      To those talking about the graphical down grades, you fail to pay attention to or explain SE's reason for doing so. You see, the graphics engine they're using on 1.0 is a bit too taxing (not to mention backward as hell) for many players systems. Also, the game needed to be playable on PS3, as they are doing a launch on that system as well and there are a number of PS3 fans waiting for that.

      As far as the crafting system being down graded, I'd say, to be more accurate, that they are stream-lining it so people that want the option to quickly craft have that option and those that want a more immersive crafting experience can utilize the mini-game that they're keeping. On top of that, those who use the mini-game will be able to craft HQ items, where as with the easy-button version it will not be possible.  

  NobleNerd

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 429

Try not!
Do or do not
There is no try.

10/04/12 5:59:03 PM#49
As  fan of Final Fantasy every fiber of my being wants to say "Yes it will be a great game reborn from the ashes like the pheonix rises to glory!", but like many posters I just am not sure they have done enough in this day and age of MMOs. I mean GW2 made many rethink what an MMO should be. Neverwinter is challenging the status quo. The Elder Scrolls Online will be another major contender in 2013. If FFXIV just puts a "Wow"esc appeal to their game it may not draw many back. SE has always done a great job with story telling and most FF fans will admit that is one major reason they play a FF game. I think they need to push the ideas on how to tell a story in an MMO setting that keeps the player active in the game. GW2 pushed the limits there and I believe Neverwinter and ES online will also. If FFXIV is to be noticed they need more than a revamped engine that plays like MMOs post WoW already do. They need something that jumps out at you. Most of what I have watched of the game play (including the 40min dev video) looks like other MMOs already out there.
  Presbytier

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/12/10
Posts: 426

10/04/12 6:49:31 PM#50
Originally posted by Cyrael
The gameplay model is old. I never intend to play a quest-hub based game again. I really wanted to see FFXIV succeed, but not by propping up outdated mechanics.

There are no such thing as outdated mechanics; only preferences and tastes. I mean just because it uses quest hubs(which I really don't believe are going away; no matter what a GW2 player says) does not mean it will be bad. Now if quest hubs are an outdated mechanic then so is quest text since we can have audio, and don't forget that we should just make walking an outdated mechanic since we can just teleport.

"Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game."-Guybrush Threepwood
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."-Hunter S. Thompson

  Ozmodan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/27/07
Posts: 6562

10/05/12 6:58:12 AM#51
Can you fix a game that started out very broken?   It is rather hard to convince people you have fixed things enough to make the game enjoyable.  This is a classic example of why not to release a game before it is ready.  Too many other games out there to make it worthwhile giving them a second chance.
  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1095

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

10/05/12 7:06:56 AM#52
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by Cyrael
The gameplay model is old. I never intend to play a quest-hub based game again. I really wanted to see FFXIV succeed, but not by propping up outdated mechanics.

There are no such thing as outdated mechanics; only preferences and tastes. I mean just because it uses quest hubs(which I really don't believe are going away; no matter what a GW2 player says) does not mean it will be bad. Now if quest hubs are an outdated mechanic then so is quest text since we can have audio, and don't forget that we should just make walking an outdated mechanic since we can just teleport.

Agreed. The amount of overstatement coming out from GW2 players is really quite much. But, just like with TOR, which had a similar love-fest over it,  the cracks are steadily beginning to show.

 

The game has just launched, what, a month ago or so? And they already want to crown it "genre changer". It might influence some ideas for other developers, just like other MMOs influenced ANet for GW2. Calling it a genre changer is extremely premature at this point.

 

The "no quest hub" system GW2 uses isn't all roses and rainbows either. Based on the substantial amount of complaints and issues I see mentioned about the whole DE thing - from big fans of the game, not just "haters", etc - ANet didn't strike gaming gold with that setup, either. It has its share of issues and limitations.. just like Quest Hubs do. Personally, I think there's room for both, "quest hub" type areas, as well as DEs. Taking it farther, I think there should be quests you can obtain by locating certain areas, or finding certain items, or killing certain mobs, or given by wandering NPCs, etc. There should be a variety of quest types provided in ways appropriate to how they're given.

 

That said, MikeB is putting out the same argument as so many others, about how "subs in 2013 may not be the wisest choice". He doesn't state it as fact, but the sentiment is there, and he does introduce it as being a "roadblock" for the game. So, it's pretty easy to see which way he leans on the topic. Regardless, it's not a forgone conclusion. It's not even a valid concern, so long as FFXIV - like other MMOs that remain sub-based - continue to do maintain a healthy enough player base.


I mean come on. FFXIV has had subs for several months now in its current state. FFXI continues to maintain a player-base, even with a subscription fee. Eve Online maintains a sub fee (their whole in-game system is optional), and a list of others. There is no "either/or" here. People keep insisting there's this dichotomy that exists that simply doesn't, nor need it.

 

Back when SE announced that subs would be reinstated for XIV, many said that "it would be the final nail in the coffin" for the game. That we would all hear the announcement of the game being taken offline shortly after because "subs are a failed, outdated model that no one will support anymore", blah blah. Some were quite smug and confident in their views, talking condescendingly to any who disagreed.

 

So, SE reinstates subs, and what happens? FFXIV now has far more people playing it than it has at pretty much any other time in its service, save for maybe immediately after launch. It's a busy, active game. You can log in and find people in all cities, shouting for help, looking for groups, selling stuff, etc. You can see groups of people out doing quests, hunting NMs, gathering up for dungeon runs, etc. It's not uncommon to run into others out in the field doing their own thing. There's tons more stuff to do and it's nowhere near the whole "you have to do leves to level up 'cause that's the main type of content". Leves, quests, mob grinding (yes, people still enjoy doing that.. in 2012! Imagine that!) and a variety of other activities are all available for players now.

 

Of course, you have to be actually playing the game, payting attention to all that to notice. Then you have to be honest enough to convey an accurate state of the game to others, and not the dishonest and blatantly skewed version we see here a lot. I see a lot of comments from people who seem to think XIV is still stuck in the same state it was 2 years ago, as though it's still current. It still has its share of issues, as some issues simply can't be adequately fixed with the current setup (one of the main reasons 2.0/ARR is happening in the first place). But it's a far more playable and, dare I say it, fun MMO now than it was back then. For many people, not just me. Again, the level of activity in the game these days, despite the sub-fees, bears that out.

 

If this many people are willing to pay a sub fee for XIV, even in its current state, is anyone seriously prepared to predict that - should SE pull it off with 2.0 and not flub it again - that many more won't be willing to do the same?

 

It's about the player numbers, not the revenue model. Without enough people playing or using the cash shop in F2P or even B2P MMO, those games wouldn't last very long either. Just like subs, a cash shop only works if enough people are using it. Or, more specifically, if the alleged 10% who do pay, are spending enough to account for the 90% who aren't.

 

 

The fact - and I have no problem stating it as such, because it proves out time and again - is that people will and do pay a subscription for a game if they enjoy it enough and feel it's worth their time and money.

 

F2P+Cash Shop works for a certain type of game setup. B2P+Cash Shop works for another type of game setup. P2P works for a certain type of game setup. P2P+Cash Shop works, I suppose, but in my opinion, shouldn't exist as it dips quite gratuitously into the "greed" category. A new revenue model is a new alternative. A new option for developers to consider and choose based on the kind of game they're making and the way they want to deliver that content to their players.

 

It's one thing to have predicted that F2P would be "the death of P2P" back when it first took hold in the Western Market, because no one really knew at that point just how pervasive it would be. Well, it found its niche in the Western Market, and that niche is typically MMOs that launched with a sub, but failed to gather enough interest to keep the game running. Going F2P is a last-ditch effort for them to keep the game going, rather than taking it offline completely.

 

It's a life-raft, or "second life" for MMOs that previously would have simply shut down like many have done. Not because "of their revenue model", but because they simply weren't good enough games to enough people.

 

B2P is another model, although the Cash Shop really puts it closer to a F2P+Cash Shop model than it does to a purely "buy once, play forever" one. ANet didn't implement that cash shop for the hell of it, just "for the off-chance that someone might want to buy stuff from it". They implemented it because it's been proven that cash shops work, when stocked with the right kinds of items that players have shown an interest in. Are the items "mandatory"? No. Are they items that have proven to be popular and consistently good sellers among players? Yes.

 

The people arguing that all MMOs will go F2P, or B2P, that it's "the future" and that Subs are a thing of the past need to stop trying to live out the dreams in their heads and start paying more attention to the reality happening all around them. Subs are just fine. They might not work for "you", but they certain work for others.

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  Cyrael

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/10
Posts: 60

10/05/12 10:37:14 PM#53
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by Presbytier
Originally posted by Cyrael
The gameplay model is old. I never intend to play a quest-hub based game again. I really wanted to see FFXIV succeed, but not by propping up outdated mechanics.

There are no such thing as outdated mechanics; only preferences and tastes. I mean just because it uses quest hubs(which I really don't believe are going away; no matter what a GW2 player says) does not mean it will be bad. Now if quest hubs are an outdated mechanic then so is quest text since we can have audio, and don't forget that we should just make walking an outdated mechanic since we can just teleport.

Agreed. The amount of overstatement coming out from GW2 players is really quite much. But, just like with TOR, which had a similar love-fest over it,  the cracks are steadily beginning to show.

 

The game has just launched, what, a month ago or so? And they already want to crown it "genre changer". It might influence some ideas for other developers, just like other MMOs influenced ANet for GW2. Calling it a genre changer is extremely premature at this point.

 

The "no quest hub" system GW2 uses isn't all roses and rainbows either. Based on the substantial amount of complaints and issues I see mentioned about the whole DE thing - from big fans of the game, not just "haters", etc - ANet didn't strike gaming gold with that setup, either. It has its share of issues and limitations.. just like Quest Hubs do. Personally, I think there's room for both, "quest hub" type areas, as well as DEs. Taking it farther, I think there should be quests you can obtain by locating certain areas, or finding certain items, or killing certain mobs, or given by wandering NPCs, etc. There should be a variety of quest types provided in ways appropriate to how they're given.

 

Note that nowhere in my post did I mention GW2. While it does fall into the "no quest hubs" category, it wasn't the first, nor will it be the last. The first MMORPG I ever played, City of Heroes, had no quest hubs to speak of. Just tiers of contacts, though they did lead you through zones in a similar way. None of the games I've played recently work on a quest hub system - that includes Wakfu, Eve Online, and yes, GW2.

 

While I don't think GW2's dynamic event system is The Game Changer, I do think developers are going to gravitate towards more dynamic content in a similar vein. If FFXIV had decided to model itself on one of these games, I feel the experience would have been better, especially given that levequests in their basic form were extremely well suited for this type of gameplay. But instead they chose the traditional path, in no small part due to the fact that Yoshi-P is a self-proclaimed WoW fan.

 

Which is probably just fine for many people. The thing about personal tastes is that everybody's is different, and it also tends to change over time. But as someone who's spent years like myself playing games like Aion, LotRO, and WoW, that particular gameplay system is tired, done to death, and basically no longer fun.

 

@Presbytier By and large, games, both online and off, ARE moving towards audio-heavy, easily accessible systems. See Skyrim, GW2, TOR, TSW, etc for examples of this. I don't believe this is a passing fad, either.

  Jockan

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4072

10/05/12 11:06:00 PM#54
If you are like me and looking for that old school adventure type mmo where you actually socialize and group with other people then please support this game. Dont know if it will be good but I sure do hope it will be.


  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5511

10/06/12 12:17:51 AM#55
Originally posted by Mannish
If you are like me and looking for that old school adventure type mmo where you actually socialize and group with other people then please support this game. Dont know if it will be good but I sure do hope it will be.

I don't think those are really good reasons to ask people to buy and pay a sub for a game Mannish.  It just leads to disappointment and backlash especially if the game under-delivers.

I like oldschool gaming too (Lin was my favorite), but they should deliver a damn good game to deserve support.  I do hope it will be good though because I loved the older FF series.  Here's to hoping the game is good and delivers on expectations.

I really wish there was a Lineage 3 like old Lin.  I hope ArcheAge can deliver, but I'm not holding my breath.  I think Korea doesn't give a damn about us anymore with all of our whining and bitching about grind, couched in racist slights about their game design.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  DAOWAce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 109

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.

10/07/12 9:55:16 AM#56

I'm going to post a link to my comment in an old thread about FFXIV 2.0, because everything still stands.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/5104801/thread/354531#5104801

TL;DR: If it still has auto-attack based combat and lacks any sort of dynamic aspects, the game will continue to fail and only be played by diehard FFXI fans.  I wanted to love it, but the change into FFXI-2 (instead of refining and polishing the vanilla release) made me quit.

DAOWAce Xfire Miniprofile
  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 857

10/07/12 10:29:22 AM#57
Not everyone thinks that rpgs are better when action based. I have alot of friends that did not play or like ffxi who like what they see for ffxiv and will be trying it. You cant speak for everyone you know.
  DAOWAce

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/12/03
Posts: 109

I tried so hard and got so far, but in the end it doesn't even matter.

10/07/12 7:12:39 PM#58

I can speak for the people sick of the age old auto-attack MMORPG market.

This is why we embraced games like TERA, Guild Wars 2, RaiderZ, etc.. FFXIV had a more action based combat even before those games.. but that was before they changed it all back into what FFXI is like.

Auto-attack games bore me out of my mind; I can't stand playing them unless something is so good about them that I can ignore the dull combat (SWTOR and its story.. and playing with lightsabers), FFXIV wasn't one of them.  I'd logon, stand around for a while, go to try and fight some things and logoff shortly after.

Again, if I speak any further I'll just repeat what I said in the other thread.

 

PS: Check my Xfire sig; I played FFXI for years and I quit for a reason.  FFXI-2 is not what I wanted. They can just upgrade the original game with the new engine if they wanted to put the effort into it to please their old fanbase who only want FFXI with better graphics/ease of use.

DAOWAce Xfire Miniprofile
  drivendawn

Elite Member

Joined: 4/17/11
Posts: 857

10/08/12 5:38:12 PM#59

Well maybe this game just isnt for you then.Funny thing,most people on the forums are mad cause they say FFXIV is turning out to be to much like WOW.

  falactal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 1

12/12/12 2:32:20 PM#60
The thing I hate about people saying its a waste of time to fix a broken game is they aren't fixing a broken game. They have completely smash the old game and from the wreck they are taking and transplating the good into a brand new games. Someone said. "They should just scrap it and start on Final Fantasy Online 3." This is Final Fantasy Online 3! 
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