Originally posted by Rayshe

The simplicity of GW2 does bug me. This is also coming from a TSW player who is always looking for a new build to try, New Aux weapon combonations.

 

Also limiting skill slots doesnt allways remove complexity. However with how GW2 did it, thats exactly what happened. Once again take TSW for example. If we had unlimited skill slots the game would become a cakewalk.

Yes me too. I play GW2 mainly because nice guild and great world design. But the class and combat... meh. I just don't get along with that. After level 10 you essentially learn nothing new, beside some fancy passives. I sort of miss my  many quickbars and combat that demands you to STAND THE FUCK STILL. Speaking purely of WVW. This lolcoptering drives me crazy. And my doctor advised me against anything that is bad for my high blood pressure. DAMN.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

What amazes me is that the people pretending GW2's combat is "simplistic" never consider it may be their own fault for not adapting to it

There is no adapting to worry about, an experienced pvper will get this pvp system and most of the combo fields in no time if they stay up a few days doing pvp matches. Hell my ranger was all about combo fields it was a good part of my damange. But even with combo fields and traits its still boring simplistic spam nonsense.

I think maybe you are not considering you may have lower expectations or be playing at a lower skill cap and maybe think  the pvp is more difficult than it actually is.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Rayshe

The simplicity of GW2 does bug me. This is also coming from a TSW player who is always looking for a new build to try, New Aux weapon combonations.

 

Also limiting skill slots doesnt allways remove complexity. However with how GW2 did it, thats exactly what happened. Once again take TSW for example. If we had unlimited skill slots the game would become a cakewalk.

Yes me too. I play GW2 mainly because nice guild and great world design. But the class and combat... meh. I just don't get along with that. After level 10 you essentially learn nothing new, beside some fancy passives. I sort of miss my  many quickbars and combat that demands you to STAND THE FUCK STILL. Speaking purely of WVW. This lolcoptering drives me crazy. And my doctor advised me against anything that is bad for my high blood pressure. DAMN.

Oh come on Elikal, you said yourself that the combat was too hard for your liking, now you're posting that's it too dumbed down. You can't deal with the fact you have to move and you want to stand still, yet GW2 combat is too "meh"

Make up your mind. If you can't deal with a more active and skill based combat, than go play some other game, but don't try to drag every game down to your level.

Originally posted by Faelsun

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

What amazes me is that the people pretending GW2's combat is "simplistic" never consider it may be their own fault for not adapting to it

There is no adapting to worry about, an experienced pvper will get this pvp system and most of the combo fields in no time if they stay up a few days doing pvp matches. Hell my ranger was all about combo fields it was a good part of my damange. But even with combo fields and traits its still boring simplistic spam nonsense.

I think maybe you are not considering you may have lower expectations or be playing at a lower skill cap and maybe think  the pvp is more difficult than it actually is.

Unlike the deep engaging system in...?

Originally posted by Faelsun

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

What amazes me is that the people pretending GW2's combat is "simplistic" never consider it may be their own fault for not adapting to it

There is no adapting to worry about, an experienced pvper will get this pvp system and most of the combo fields in no time if they stay up a few days doing pvp matches. Hell my ranger was all about combo fields it was a good part of my damange. But even with combo fields and traits its still boring simplistic spam nonsense.

I think maybe you are not considering you may have lower expectations or be playing at a lower skill cap and maybe think  the pvp is more difficult than it actually is.

I think maybe you should read and quote my full post instead of just one sentence, since the answer to your "maybe" is in it. But then, it wouldn't have given you that nice opportunity to bash me and the game with assumptions about me and my play style instead of sticking to facts and arguments.

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Rayshe

The simplicity of GW2 does bug me. This is also coming from a TSW player who is always looking for a new build to try, New Aux weapon combonations.

 

Also limiting skill slots doesnt allways remove complexity. However with how GW2 did it, thats exactly what happened. Once again take TSW for example. If we had unlimited skill slots the game would become a cakewalk.

Yes me too. I play GW2 mainly because nice guild and great world design. But the class and combat... meh. I just don't get along with that. After level 10 you essentially learn nothing new, beside some fancy passives. I sort of miss my  many quickbars and combat that demands you to STAND THE FUCK STILL. Speaking purely of WVW. This lolcoptering drives me crazy. And my doctor advised me against anything that is bad for my high blood pressure. DAMN.

Oh come on Elikal, you said yourself that the combat was too hard for your liking, now you're posting that's it too dumbed down. You can't deal with the fact you have to move and you want to stand still, yet GW2 combat is too "meh"

Make up your mind. If you can't deal with a more active and skill based combat, than go play some other game, but don't try to drag every game down to your level.

You see a contradiction where there is none.

It is too "simplified" which is NOT simple. It is twitch based, which I find too hard to master, personally speaking. The variety is at the same time too low.

Don't see whats not to understand here. *shrug*

Originally posted by Elikal

You see a contradiction where there is none.

It is too "simplified" which is NOT simple. It is twitch based, which I find too hard to master, personally speaking. The variety is at the same time too low.

Don't see whats not to understand here. *shrug*

You must be joking here, right? Because otherwise, what you say indeed makes absolutely no sense.

Hmmm....so I just have to respond to this one.

It seems like many of the folks who think that GW2 has "simplistic" combat, are talking from a PvE perspective.  Well, IMO, it is pointless to talk about the depth of combat in just about ANY game from a PvE perspective.

Simple truth is that PvE combat is far more about exploiting the AI than it is about using the combat system in any deep way.  Even "good" PvE, is about learning patterns, finding weaknesses, reacting to queues, i.e. exploiting the AI.

"Don't stand in the red circle"

"Dodge when he does X"

"Pull her to this spot"

All of these quotes should be very familiar to anyone who plays a lot of PvE in any MMORPG...or really any game.  This is how it works, the developers typically will code fights to be a "puzzle" then you figure it out.  The depth of the combat is a non-secretor in these cases.  I'm not saying that PvE is bad, I'm just saying that "combat depth" doesn't have much of a place in it.

PvP on the other hand...that can have combat depth.  And considering that I have played TONS of PvP in GW2, I can confidently say that it has deep combat.  To illustrate how the combat in GW2 has "depth" I will go over ONE ability that an Elementalist can use, and list several things that I use it for.

The ability is called "Lightning Flash."  It is a 900 range ground targeted blink, that does a moderate amount of damage to whatever I blink onto.  Here are some uses:

1.  Most simple use is escape.  I can blink away if disabled and getting beat on, lifesaver here.  It also breaks stun, so if I get stunned it can save me.

2.  It doesn't interrupt channeling, so I can start a long cast time PBAoE spell, like Churning earth, and then lightning flash right on top of a bunch of enemies before it fires and nail them all.

3.  I can and have actually used lightning flash to kill people.  It doesn't do much damage, but it does do some, and sometimes that is enough to down a foe with low HP.

4.  Much like the use with churning earth, I can start the much shorter cast time PBAoE knock down "earthquake" and then lightning flash on top of a group of enemies to give my PBAoE knockdown and effective 900 range.  I similarly use this with updraft (another PBAoE KB) to knock people back.

5.  I can use it to chase someone trying to get away...lightning flash can put me in the range of magnetic grasp (root) or ride the lightning + updraft combo and the runner is mine.

Those are FIVE choices on how I can use ONE skill.  These choices I have to make very fast in the middle of combat, and choosing the wrong thing can lead to my death.  For example, if I lightning flash in for a churning earth bomb, then I lose it as an escape mechanism if a thief basilisk's venom me for a burst and could die...decisions matter.

Oh and that's not all for lightning flash...

If I wanted I can trick it out , I could do the following with traits...

1.  Grant regeneration and vigor whenever I lightning flash.

2.  Remove a condition whenever I lightning flash.

3.  Reduce the cooldown so it is more available.

I just wrote multiple paragraphs about one skill...sounds like deep combat to me.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Rayshe

The simplicity of GW2 does bug me. This is also coming from a TSW player who is always looking for a new build to try, New Aux weapon combonations.

 

Also limiting skill slots doesnt allways remove complexity. However with how GW2 did it, thats exactly what happened. Once again take TSW for example. If we had unlimited skill slots the game would become a cakewalk.

Yes me too. I play GW2 mainly because nice guild and great world design. But the class and combat... meh. I just don't get along with that. After level 10 you essentially learn nothing new, beside some fancy passives. I sort of miss my  many quickbars and combat that demands you to STAND THE FUCK STILL. Speaking purely of WVW. This lolcoptering drives me crazy. And my doctor advised me against anything that is bad for my high blood pressure. DAMN.

Oh come on Elikal, you said yourself that the combat was too hard for your liking, now you're posting that's it too dumbed down. You can't deal with the fact you have to move and you want to stand still, yet GW2 combat is too "meh"

Make up your mind. If you can't deal with a more active and skill based combat, than go play some other game, but don't try to drag every game down to your level.

You see a contradiction where there is none.

It is too "simplified" which is NOT simple. It is twitch based, which I find too hard to master, personally speaking. The variety is at the same time too low.

Don't see whats not to understand here. *shrug*

I'm still waiting for an answer to an earlier question and Elikal you've just reminded of it with "its too simplified" comment. How is it too simplified? there have been many examples of it being deeper than many other MMO's with the combination of Stats, Traits, Skill Points, Weapons, Gear, Runes makiing the possible builds seem to be immense but no real explanation of how it is shallow.

Originally posted by CreslinAgain

Hmmm....so I just have to respond to this one.

It seems like many of the folks who think that GW2 has "simplistic" combat, are talking from a PvE perspective.  Well, IMO, it is pointless to talk about the depth of combat in just about ANY game from a PvE perspective.

Simple truth is that PvE combat is far more about exploiting the AI than it is about using the combat system in any deep way.  Even "good" PvE, is about learning patterns, finding weaknesses, reacting to queues, i.e. exploiting the AI.

"Don't stand in the red circle"

"Dodge when he does X"

"Pull her to this spot"

All of these quotes should be very familiar to anyone who plays a lot of PvE in any MMORPG...or really any game.  This is how it works, the developers typically will code fights to be a "puzzle" then you figure it out.  The depth of the combat is a non-secretor in these cases.  I'm not saying that PvE is bad, I'm just saying that "combat depth" doesn't have much of a place in it.

 

PvP on the other hand...that can have combat depth.  And considering that I have played TONS of PvP in GW2, I can confidently say that it has deep combat.  To illustrate how the combat in GW2 has "depth" I will go over ONE ability that an Elementalist can use, and list several things that I use it for.

The ability is called "Lightning Flash."  It is a 900 range ground targeted blink, that does a moderate amount of damage to whatever I blink onto.  Here are some uses:

1.  Most simple use is escape.  I can blink away if disabled and getting beat on, lifesaver here.  It also breaks stun, so if I get stunned it can save me.

2.  It doesn't interrupt channeling, so I can start a long cast time PBAoE spell, like Churning earth, and then lightning flash right on top of a bunch of enemies before it fires and nail them all.

3.  I can and have actually used lightning flash to kill people.  It doesn't do much damage, but it does do some, and sometimes that is enough to down a foe with low HP.

4.  Much like the use with churning earth, I can start the much shorter cast time PBAoE knock down "earthquake" and then lightning flash on top of a group of enemies to give my PBAoE knockdown and effective 900 range.  I similarly use this with updraft (another PBAoE KB) to knock people back.

5.  I can use it to chase someone trying to get away...lightning flash can put me in the range of magnetic grasp (root) or ride the lightning + updraft combo and the runner is mine.

Those are FIVE choices on how I can use ONE skill.  These choices I have to make very fast in the middle of combat, and choosing the wrong thing can lead to my death.  For example, if I lightning flash in for a churning earth bomb, then I lose it as an escape mechanism if a thief basilisk's venom me for a burst and could die...decisions matter.

Oh and that's not all for lightning flash...

If I wanted I can trick it out do to the following with traits...

1.  Grant regeneration and vigor whenever I lightning flash.

2.  Remove a condition whenever I lightning flash.

3.  Reduce the cooldown so it is more available.

I just wrote multiple paragraphs about one skill...sounds like deep combat to me.

While the red is certainly true, AI exists to be defeated after all, one also has to note that generally when one compares PvE to PvP in any MMORPG (and even videogames in general) we talk how;

-PvP is faster;

-in PvP there is less leeway to recover from mistakes so it requires a better execution and decision making,

-PvP requires higher game mechanics comprehension;

-PvP requires better map awareness;

-PvP requires more movement.

GW2 PvE require more movement and higher map awareness compared to many other MMORPGs.

Originally posted by CreslinAgain

Hmmm....so I just have to respond to this one.

It seems like many of the folks who think that GW2 has "simplistic" combat, are talking from a PvE perspective.  Well, IMO, it is pointless to talk about the depth of combat in just about ANY game from a PvE perspective.

<snip>

I think I agree with you here.  There is only so far you can go with PVE combat.   For GW2, with the lack of usable skills, I find the different variations of the combat to be relatively few.   I don't PVP in GW2 so I can't comment on that.  PVP I would assume is where you could really tinker with abilities and such....but since I don't play the PVP part I can't really comment on how more in-depth it would be versus other games.

But for the PVE side, I found the combat to be rather underwhelming.  I think this is largely due to the limited combat abilities available to you at one time.

I would place Elemental combat at the front of ANY game on the market right now.

At any single time I can swap out between 4 VERY different playstyles to tackle any situation and the combat is VASTLY different from one another. Better yet I can swap out a staff for a scepter and off hand weapon for 4 sets of combat VASTLY DIFFERENT than those of a staff. Oh wait, lets try that dagger instead...oh look, melee combat!

Now throw in advanced skills that range from being able to call on 2 elementals to fight/defend or replace them with AOE damage, buffs, control spells...oh and then theres that thing called water combat...

60 land based spells/attacks, not including slot skills...and 20 water attacks.

Sorry, anyone saying combat in GW2 is shallow wasnt playing right.

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by eyelolled

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Rayshe

The simplicity of GW2 does bug me. This is also coming from a TSW player who is always looking for a new build to try, New Aux weapon combonations.

 

Also limiting skill slots doesnt allways remove complexity. However with how GW2 did it, thats exactly what happened. Once again take TSW for example. If we had unlimited skill slots the game would become a cakewalk.

Yes me too. I play GW2 mainly because nice guild and great world design. But the class and combat... meh. I just don't get along with that. After level 10 you essentially learn nothing new, beside some fancy passives. I sort of miss my  many quickbars and combat that demands you to STAND THE FUCK STILL. Speaking purely of WVW. This lolcoptering drives me crazy. And my doctor advised me against anything that is bad for my high blood pressure. DAMN.

Oh come on Elikal, you said yourself that the combat was too hard for your liking, now you're posting that's it too dumbed down. You can't deal with the fact you have to move and you want to stand still, yet GW2 combat is too "meh"

Make up your mind. If you can't deal with a more active and skill based combat, than go play some other game, but don't try to drag every game down to your level.

You see a contradiction where there is none.

It is too "simplified" which is NOT simple. It is twitch based, which I find too hard to master, personally speaking. The variety is at the same time too low.

Don't see whats not to understand here. *shrug*

The only thing that I see that is "simplified" is your description, which basically makes it a lie. Now maybe it's because you're completely ignorant of the truth, which is acceptable as not everyone has to know everything. Or you're just spewing lies because you couldn't "master" the game, and now you just want to "hate" against it.

For example: You say that after level 10 you essentially don't learn anything new. That statement implies that slot skills dont exist, which of course they do. It also implies that elite skills don't exist, which of course they do. 

Seeing that you claim to have experience with this game, one would be concerned that you are intentionally lying about it. It would certainly lead me to beleive that you are at the very least, over simplifying the description of the game mechanics. 

So, if you want to simplify the truth by hiding facts, then I'd say you're doing that very well. The one thing you are not doing, is offering up any valuable insight into the game, other than the typical "I'm not good at something, so it must be terrible" argument.

Originally posted by grimal

I think I agree with you here.  There is only so far you can go with PVE combat.   For GW2, with the lack of usable skills, I find the different variations of the combat to be relatively few.   I don't PVP in GW2 so I can't comment on that.  PVP I would assume is where you could really tinker with abilities and such....but since I don't play the PVP part I can't really comment on how more in-depth it would be versus other games.

But for the PVE side, I found the combat to be rather underwhelming.  I think this is largely due to the limited combat abilities available to you at one time.

You really should. It really is the one area this game does well. From a PvP point of view this game is pretty damn good.

For PvE? Pretty lacking in several areas

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Faelsun

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

What amazes me is that the people pretending GW2's combat is "simplistic" never consider it may be their own fault for not adapting to it

There is no adapting to worry about, an experienced pvper will get this pvp system and most of the combo fields in no time if they stay up a few days doing pvp matches. Hell my ranger was all about combo fields it was a good part of my damange. But even with combo fields and traits its still boring simplistic spam nonsense.

I think maybe you are not considering you may have lower expectations or be playing at a lower skill cap and maybe think  the pvp is more difficult than it actually is.

I think maybe you should read and quote my full post instead of just one sentence, since the answer to your "maybe" is in it. But then, it wouldn't have given you that nice opportunity to bash me and the game with assumptions about me and my play style instead of sticking to facts and arguments.

That one sentence pretty much sums up everything you said so why bother, lets see basically you think that everyone that doesnt like GW2s simplistic pvp system is a former WOW player who cant possibly grasp ten hot keys and that you played AC. Got it. Apparently there is a rich unknown tapestry of combo fields and specs and tactics they they have not discovered yet. If only the poor souls could grasp team play and combo fields, everything would be better. It cant possibly because they find themselves nodding off to sleep in sPVP matches finding that even getting great scores feels utterly boring in such a  BORING pvp experience. The system itself had potential but its dumbed down to much skills are bracketed too much into groupings weapon and hotbar skills are focuessed to much on dps with little diversity and there is lack of ranged viabiltiy and support viability for ANY support spec, all of those serve a very minor role. You dont have to take my word for it even some of the TOP players in pvp will tell you there is a certain lack of debth in non dps classes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hByqoWsnz-I

Originally posted by Faelsun

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Faelsun

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

What amazes me is that the people pretending GW2's combat is "simplistic" never consider it may be their own fault for not adapting to it

There is no adapting to worry about, an experienced pvper will get this pvp system and most of the combo fields in no time if they stay up a few days doing pvp matches. Hell my ranger was all about combo fields it was a good part of my damange. But even with combo fields and traits its still boring simplistic spam nonsense.

I think maybe you are not considering you may have lower expectations or be playing at a lower skill cap and maybe think  the pvp is more difficult than it actually is.

I think maybe you should read and quote my full post instead of just one sentence, since the answer to your "maybe" is in it. But then, it wouldn't have given you that nice opportunity to bash me and the game with assumptions about me and my play style instead of sticking to facts and arguments.

That one sentence pretty much sums up everything you said so why bother, lets see basically you think that everyone that doesnt like GW2s simplistic pvp system is a former WOW player who cant possibly grasp ten hot keys and that you played AC. Got it. Apparently there is a rich unknown tapestry of combo fields and specs and tactics they they have not discovered yet. If only the poor souls could grasp team play and combo fields, everything would be better. It cant possibly because they find themselves nodding off to sleep in sPVP matches finding that even getting great scores feels utterly boring in such a  BORING pvp experience. The system itself had potential but its dumbed down to much skills are bracketed too much into groupings weapon and hotbar skills are focuessed to much on dps with little diversity and there is lack of ranged viabiltiy and support viability for ANY support spec, all of those serve a very minor role. You dont have to take my word for it even some of the TOP players in pvp will tell you there is a certain lack of debth in non dps classes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hByqoWsnz-I

Curious how those top players didn't talk about any of your complains.

They just said they play 8 or more hours per day, they talked how bunker builds are more manageable, they talked about the changes to the down state and how now rez skills are more useful (some like the change, some don't), they talked how the elementalist down state is too good due to mist form, there is some talk on how warriors aren't viable due to CC teams (what CC in GW2 and a powerful melee character isn't viable?), some whine on how warriors can't deal with conditions.

Or did you want to link some other video?

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by grimal

I think I agree with you here.  There is only so far you can go with PVE combat.   For GW2, with the lack of usable skills, I find the different variations of the combat to be relatively few.   I don't PVP in GW2 so I can't comment on that.  PVP I would assume is where you could really tinker with abilities and such....but since I don't play the PVP part I can't really comment on how more in-depth it would be versus other games.

But for the PVE side, I found the combat to be rather underwhelming.  I think this is largely due to the limited combat abilities available to you at one time.

You really should. It really is the one area this game does well. From a PvP point of view this game is pretty damn good.

For PvE? Pretty lacking in several areas

Except on very rare ocassions, I don't really like the whole separate PVP arena/instance thing.  I'm more attracted to open world PVP.

By the way, it's good to see another whom didn't get swept up by the hype.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by grimal

I think I agree with you here.  There is only so far you can go with PVE combat.   For GW2, with the lack of usable skills, I find the different variations of the combat to be relatively few.   I don't PVP in GW2 so I can't comment on that.  PVP I would assume is where you could really tinker with abilities and such....but since I don't play the PVP part I can't really comment on how more in-depth it would be versus other games.

But for the PVE side, I found the combat to be rather underwhelming.  I think this is largely due to the limited combat abilities available to you at one time.

You really should. It really is the one area this game does well. From a PvP point of view this game is pretty damn good.

For PvE? Pretty lacking in several areas

Except on very rare ocassions, I don't really like the whole separate PVP arena/instance thing.  I'm more attracted to open world PVP.

By the way, it's good to see another whom didn't get swept up by the hype.

 I'm with you.

I don't have anything against instanced PvP in general, but I don't like that GW2's instanced PvP is all conquest.  So I spend most of my time doing open world PvP in WvW.

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

Originally posted by Mardukk

I really like GW2's combat and it is definitely the highlight of the game.  I figured that things would get even more difficult as I leveled up but I'm finding it actually getting easier (max toon is 65 at this time).  I'm at the point now that I don't even have to dodge much anymore if it's only one or two mobs.  Hell, I can watch TV and click skills if I'm feeling lazy.  This is all PvE talk of course.

Probably the most unique thing GW2 brought to the genre are combo fields.  I think the combo fields are a bit of brilliance that really add a great deal to combat.

 

I just wish there was more to the game other than combat.  

I understand your sentiment, but honestly... I've played a lot of games and not many can compare. I don't understand the need to criticize every aspect of every game.. either u enjoy the game or you dont. no game is perfect.

idd, BUT everyone have their own opiniosn and likes and we can try to change them but 99% its useless challenge ;)