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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] The Elder Scrolls Online: Progression as Longevity

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95 posts found
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

12/10/12 3:46:21 PM#21
They dropped the ball with this game. All they had to do was copy most if not all of the systems in the Elder Scroll games and people would be happy. But they're letting the genre they making the game for intimidate them into stupid design decisions that people have been complaining about for years, that should of never made it into the genre to begin with. 
  NL-Rikkert

Novice Member

Joined: 8/22/11
Posts: 121

Currently playing:Mount & Blade,Smite,Chivalry MW,LoL

12/10/12 4:03:35 PM#22

In an age where (Arguably) big names like Machinima calls things like Far Cry 3 (and I quote) "Skyrim with guns", I'm just ashemed to live on this planet. Wish we could go back to the N64 era and have proper games once more.

Please listen game devoloppers, Slapping a big name on a game does NOT make it a good game. Please invent something new or atleast make a proper game for once.

As a MMO beta tester and huge fan of TES series I'm inclined to play this game, but I have very very shitty hopes.

STOOPID
When someone does something so utterly moronic that it kills your brain cells at the very thought of it.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/10/12 4:05:09 PM#23
Farcry 3 is a good game.
  ste2000

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/28/04
Posts: 4735

12/10/12 4:06:08 PM#24

Bill you are trying way too hard with this game..............give us video footage and we will make our mind

Too much talk and not enough evidence.

There is no point in over hyping this game, we all know that this game will sell 2+ Million copies already.

The point is, is it going to retain those players after the first month?

No amount of hype can keep players playing if their first month was disappointing.

 

ESO has to be more Skyrim and less WOW to succeed, that's as simple as that.

At the moment it looks like a mix between SWTOR and GW2 from the information released so far (even if some of them are twisted to make some features look better then they are)

There is already a huge design flaw in my view, the real game should be between level 1 and lvl 49 (the Journey as in every TES game)................it should not start at 50 like every other MMO

Zenimax are losing their chance to revolutionize the MMO industry, the same way Bethesda did with TES for the RPGs with their unconventional approach that makes TES so different from any other RPG on the market.

Settling down for another WOW with a twist, just won't cut it.

  jinxxed0

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 846

12/10/12 4:07:49 PM#25
It's funny how GW2 has people jaded about this game. I've lost faith in all these games as well. I plan on trying FF14 2.0, archage, and that's about it. None of those games really appeal to me other than the fact that they'll be modern sandboxs (not sure about ff14 2.0)
  Reignson

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 21

12/10/12 4:10:58 PM#26

I'm still waiting for them to announce at least one unique or inovative system they are going to use for this game.   One thing that hasn't been done before?  

 

And how can the dev's fail to realize that what Elder Scrolls fans actually want isn't an mmorpg...  What we want is just the world and mythos of Tamriel to run around in, and the freedom to do whatever the hell we want when we get there... together with a thousand or so players at the same time. 

 

Do we really care if it's perfectly balanced?  No.  Why?   Because in the game we want, we can learn any skills, or spells in the game eventually.  Balance achived through equal choice, and options for progression.  If there are enough abilitys to learn / choose from, the charcters will still be built diversely by the playerbase. 

 

We are witnesses to the end of an age.  RIP Elder Scrolls.   

  Lizardone

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/12
Posts: 94

12/10/12 4:12:54 PM#27
If I make it in-game, once I hit max level I wouldn't bother improving other type of weapons and armors. I would roll an alt to explore the other provinces.
  Dauzqul

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1285

12/10/12 4:42:40 PM#28

Some unique features. Sure. But I honestly think this is going to be another example of a game that fails due to lack of player-driven content.

You can have the best gameplay in the world. But when there isn't anything to do in the end other than PvP the same instanced zones over and over or Raid the same 5 instances over and over...    it's going to flop.

  Hrimnir

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1158

12/10/12 5:10:01 PM#29

I'm sorry Bill, but you're just flat out wrong.  GW2 has already proven that the whole "lateral" progression model only works for a fairly small subset of the MMO playerbase.  The one problem you came up with is a pretty major problem.  Most rogue type players for example wouldnt be caught dead wielding a mace in one hand and a sword in the other.  So to suggest that its a meaninful method of progression for them is reaching, badly.  Also, to be fair, no one style or mix of weapons can be overly strong vs another and this means that basically you have no real reason to get these other skills other than A. You want to, or B. You don't like the playstyle of your current weapons.

Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.  It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to.  That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it.  Just as an example.

That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept.  These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts.  They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.

MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Eladi

Novice Member

Joined: 11/23/06
Posts: 1063

12/10/12 5:14:39 PM#30

traditional theme park endgame of dungeons, raids, and PVP Will defitnyl kill this game just as fast as any other themepark endgame game in the past years.  So while Im not a 100% leet pvp'er I would hope that they are so smart as to make a dynamic dungeon system whitin the central pvp zone were people can go in at random and do personal dungeon at their current level.

would make sure theres like 666 dungeon entrances else we will have 2000 "grievers" camping the entrances. but cant imagen more fun then sneaking true the lands finding dungeons and avoiding enemy's or fight some off on the ocasional simulair dungeon exit / finding timing ..

 

  pauly6478

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/05
Posts: 301

12/10/12 5:27:55 PM#31
Progression should be on large land masses the farther in you go and the deeper down secret chambers the harder it gets. The harder it gets better resource type items will drop and help you unlock new things. Make it so that it takes a long time not to level but to find the items. Carebears will whine but when you have to work really hard for finding something that not everyone has its very rewarding. 
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/10/12 5:44:08 PM#32
Eladi
If they have dungeons in cyrodil, I'm guessing they are open ones not instances.
  Omol

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/03
Posts: 333

12/10/12 6:13:03 PM#33
[QUOTE] I'm sorry Bill, but you're just flat out wrong.  GW2 has already proven that the whole "lateral" progression model only works for a fairly small subset of the MMO playerbase.  The one problem you came up with is a pretty major problem.  Most rogue type players for example wouldnt be caught dead wielding a mace in one hand and a sword in the other.  So to suggest that its a meaninful method of progression for them is reaching, badly.  Also, to be fair, no one style or mix of weapons can be overly strong vs another and this means that basically you have no real reason to get these other skills other than A. You want to, or B. You don't like the playstyle of your current weapons.

Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.  It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to.  That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it.  Just as an example.

That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept.  These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts.  They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.

MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.[/QUOTE]

 

I agree with you on everything except this..

[QUOTE]Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.[/QUOTE]

 

No matter how long you make it take to reach end game/max level, there will always be those few that have to get there before everyone else. I mean hell, there were max level characters within a weeks time after EQ was released. I forget his name, he was a member of Fires of Heaven, and shortly after him the guild he was in had a few more maxed out characters running around. It happens and there is not really a way around it.

 

I miss the old days of EQ. I wish they would bring back EQ's death penalty in a game. You actually learned to play your class and pay attention in EQ due to the possibility of looseing your character!

 

/shout Need help breaking FEAR!!

 
 

----------------------------
Omol da'Ox

  Tindale111

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/21/12
Posts: 190

12/10/12 6:17:09 PM#34
I think im one of only a few who thinks that their trailer looks amazing and that they are trying to keep it very elder scrolls ish theres no way to keep all people happy but until we have tried should we be ripping it to shreds ive been trying for years now to find a game that keeps me coming back as much as EQ2 , I played SWOTOR for about 4 to 5 months and loved it the pvp was good the dungeons and class quests but they messed up on the bits that keep you their when you have maxed out mainly Crafting which was rubbish still i think they switched to the ftp ptp whatever you want to call it to early i think (and i know this would be asking a lot ) that any new mmos coming out should have an expansion out within a year not the normal 2 years if this could be done then might keep people interested enough to hang on to their subs a bit longer people eat up content at a incredible rate these days i dont see any reason to make lvling to slow people will get frustrated or bored but i see no reason why you cant draw out crafting maybe like eq or vanguard add player housing and guild halls and you have something to work on when you have maxed out on raids ,pvp etc anyway these just my thoughts i keep trying till i find the perfect game for me in the meantime its back to EQ2 thanks for reading :)
  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4113

12/10/12 6:19:24 PM#35
Awesome.  Considering GW2 let me down when it comes to Longevity and character progression after level cap, this article gives me hope.  Can't wait.

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3365

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

12/10/12 6:19:31 PM#36


Originally posted by ShakyMo
EladiIf they have dungeons in cyrodil, I'm guessing they are open ones not instances.

Cyrodil is instanced lol, Instances inside instances? inception much?


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Draxonfly

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/04
Posts: 126

Head or Gut?

12/10/12 6:22:03 PM#37

 

I'm looking forward to it.. ESO Sounds alright to me  8)

 

 

  steelheartx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 407

12/10/12 7:07:59 PM#38
Originally posted by Hrimnir

 

Honestly we just need to move back to the days of EQ, where leveling times were long enough that the idea of "rushing to endgame" was never even thought of.  It meant all the content you developed along the way actually god used and played because there was an actual reason to.  That sword you got in the level 20 dungeon was worth it because you're not gonna just replace it in 2 hours when you've outleveled it.  Just as an example.

That will work for the true mmorpg players, the reality is we're in an industry thats trying to morph MMORPG's into something that non MMO players (which, IMO is about 75% of the current playerbase) will accept.  These people are not MMO players, they are console gamers, or single player gamers, or what i believe we've started calling content locusts.  They literally only care about chewing through content, replaybility, social aspects to games, world, art, etc, are meaningless, they want story lines and content, cool looking stuff to kill, etc.

MMORPG's simply can't cater to this player/playstyle and be succesful, its non sustainable.

 

You hit it on the head.  These companies need to bring back the MMO in MMOs.  Themed-park level progression just doesn't work.  Players blow through all of the content in 1-3 months and are done.  Due to the fact that the entirety of games now days is just about 100% theme-parked, game developers just can't keep up with the players anymore.

I hate to say it, but if the industry is going to survive they need to bit back meaning to these games.  In the old days (prior to WoW), when you earned a level, you really felt like you earned a level. 

Yes, there was a grind, but it had meaning and the chance of rewarding the grinders with semi-rare items if one was patient. 

Yes, there were death penalties, but it made a community responcible to itself and helped to forge friendships that are still stong today with alot of players.

Yes, you had to "find" a quest (or at least look it up) out in the middle of nowhere rather than just going to a camp that contained all the quests for a zone right there for your convienance.

Yes, there was very little content to solo, but it was a freakin MMO, not a game that you just happened to play solo with 1000s of other people simutaniously on the same server at the same time.

And yes, these games were punishing (to a fault), but players took it as a challenge and kept coming back for more. 

Disagree?  That's fine.  This is just my opinion after leading Guilds and gaming for over the last decade.  Many players that have been gaming longer than me may well disagree also.  But before you disagree, think about this.....  Almost every game that has launched since WoW is either barren of players after a couple years (if that), or dead and gone :(

Wish i had a few hundred million to design a game.

Looking for a family that you can game with for life? Check out Grievance at https://www.grievancegaming.org !

  steelheartx

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 407

12/10/12 7:13:47 PM#39

You know, one game that does have my attention not neccessarily for the actual game, but for the concept is Neverwinter Nights Online.  Granted i'm an ex-pencil/paper player, but i think that they've hit on some thing and that's launching with user created content.

The foundry is a brilliant idea imo.  It allows players to create content at game launch, freeing up the developement team to concentrate on fixing bugs and working on the future expansions.  I literally think that the concept, as they are implimenting it could result in a paradiem shift in the gaming industry within the next couple years.

NWO may, or may not become a hit, but a future game certain could using the same philosophy.

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  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1941

12/10/12 7:14:11 PM#40
Originally posted by ste2000

Bill you are trying way too hard with this game..............give us video footage and we will make our mind

Too much talk and not enough evidence.

There is no point in over hyping this game, we all know that this game will sell 2+ Million copies already.

The point is, is it going to retain those players after the first month?

No amount of hype can keep players playing if their first month was disappointing.

 

ESO has to be more Skyrim and less WOW to succeed, that's as simple as that.

At the moment it looks like a mix between SWTOR and GW2 from the information released so far (even if some of them are twisted to make some features look better then they are)

There is already a huge design flaw in my view, the real game should be between level 1 and lvl 49 (the Journey as in every TES game)................it should not start at 50 like every other MMO

Zenimax are losing their chance to revolutionize the MMO industry, the same way Bethesda did with TES for the RPGs with their unconventional approach that makes TES so different from any other RPG on the market.

Settling down for another WOW with a twist, just won't cut it.

I'd much rather it be more like Daggerfall than Skyrim.

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