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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » World is not required for an MMO

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192 posts found
  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/09/12 4:54:58 PM#1

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/09/12 5:00:38 PM#2
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

Sure you're just not poking the hornet's nest, hoping for the angry buzz?

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Hrimnir

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1074

12/09/12 5:02:23 PM#3
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

 

Wheels are not required for a bicycle.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  Aison2

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 600

12/09/12 5:06:13 PM#4
Originally posted by Hrimnir
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

 

Wheels are not required for a bicycle.

wheels are for casuals

http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/images/HbtC/star-wars-hover-bike-becomes-reality-0.jpg?20120822-165633

Pi*1337/100 = 42

  User Deleted
12/09/12 5:07:59 PM#5
I actually agree with the premise of the OP.  Sometimes unwritten 'rules' need to be broken.  I'd love to see more MMORPG break the traditional molds that are stagnating the genre.
  Reeper

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 121

12/09/12 5:13:26 PM#6
world not needed, yes your right, you could be like all the rest, but what were looking for is an MMO with a world, why make another one with out a world, so many to choose from right now i dont believe we need another.
  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/09/12 5:16:00 PM#7
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Sure you're just not poking the hornet's nest, hoping for the angry buzz?

Merely, trying to burst a few bubbles. If someone gets upset it is because their ingrained views are being questioned. And people don't like that. Still, if you can point out where they are wrong, shouldn't you do that?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/09/12 5:24:20 PM#8

More single player console mentatlity whorshipping the linear dog leash games that have plaqued the industry far too long.

Thank god a few dozen sandboxes are coming along to debunk this. Dont know about you, i prefer more from my mmo and the things i can do in them.

 

 

 

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 799

12/09/12 5:26:19 PM#9
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

i dont agree.

so by your standerd any game with an online function can be considered an MMO?

because alot of people can play it online? if you dont have a persistant world then my friend what you have is a online game not an MMO, You could refer to browser games like PA and tribal wars as MMO´s but lets keep them at browser games shall we?

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11902

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

12/09/12 5:34:04 PM#10
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

My suggestion is that you decouple MMO from MMORPG. MMORPG has too much baggage and too many preconceptions around here to make for a constructive discussion. Also, I'm assuming you mean 3D world wehn you say "world" correct?

An MMO exists in a virtual worldspace. That virtual worldspace or virtual community can exist in text, 2D or 3D form. Omega Day, Travian and Die2Nite are just as much an MMO, if not more of one, than most of the mainstream 3D MMOs are.

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

12/09/12 5:54:36 PM#11

 MMO in that sense is nothing more than descriptor of how many people play certain game.  Which I guess is right now.

 

I've been playing this kind of browser games like around 10 years ago.   If we start calling that kind of games MMO's (or MMORPG's when there is personal character you play) then we need more subgenres created, because "world simulation" mmorpg's and those games have very little in common.  

 

Anyway - I am all for it.  Just need subgenres.   MMO  and MMORPG desciptor grown way too big anyway and lose their 'genre' desciptive function. 

MMO nowadays is like saying game is Single Player or Multiplayer. Does not bring any knowegedle to player aside of how much players can play with themself at once at same time.

 

Same with MMORPG where 'RPG' part is used just in most basic sense that game have some kind of statistics attached to personified being and more than half of games nowadays have something like this.    Afterall EvE Online and GW2 have practically nothing in common, not more than in example Prototype and Morrowind and yet they are placed in same genre and Prototype and Morrowind are not.

 

Detach 'virtual world rpg games' into separate genre from mmorpg's and then it will be easy to call non 'world'' games an mmorpg without much resistance.

  snapfusion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/17/11
Posts: 976

12/09/12 5:59:57 PM#12
Your right people can make really really bad games and call them MMO's because they went down the check list.  Your point?  At the end of the day they are no less a train wreak.
  User Deleted
12/09/12 6:09:27 PM#13
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Quirhid

As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.

Sure you're just not poking the hornet's nest, hoping for the angry buzz?

Who'd a thunk it.

  anemo

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/10
Posts: 698

12/09/12 6:29:28 PM#14

I agree.

I've seen more role playing in games like Imperial Conflict, and Astro Empires than I've seen in world of everclone games.   Speaking of which I've been seeing more MMO there to.

Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

"There are still vast swaths of our planet's surface in which it's surprisingly easy to lose things. Even a ship the size of a large building." Richard Fisher

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/09/12 6:41:12 PM#15
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

My suggestion is that you decouple MMO from MMORPG. MMORPG has too much baggage and too many preconceptions around here to make for a constructive discussion. Also, I'm assuming you mean 3D world wehn you say "world" correct?

An MMO exists in a virtual worldspace. That virtual worldspace or virtual community can exist in text, 2D or 3D form. Omega Day, Travian and Die2Nite are just as much an MMO, if not more of one, than most of the mainstream 3D MMOs are.

World as in it exists and functions without player input or presence. MMOs do not need that. In Planetarion's case the game is the environment, but there is actually no world in the game. As much as chess has a world - sort of.

And I agree, people attach way too much baggage on the term - each one something different.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5492

I dare you to pin a label on me.

 
OP  12/09/12 6:48:10 PM#16
Originally posted by fenistil

 MMO in that sense is nothing more than descriptor of how many people play certain game.  Which I guess is right now.

 

I've been playing this kind of browser games like around 10 years ago.   If we start calling that kind of games MMO's (or MMORPG's when there is personal character you play) then we need more subgenres created, because "world simulation" mmorpg's and those games have very little in common.  

 

Anyway - I am all for it.  Just need subgenres.   MMO  and MMORPG desciptor grown way too big anyway and lose their 'genre' desciptive function. 

MMO nowadays is like saying game is Single Player or Multiplayer. Does not bring any knowegedle to player aside of how much players can play with themself at once at same time.

 

Same with MMORPG where 'RPG' part is used just in most basic sense that game have some kind of statistics attached to personified being and more than half of games nowadays have something like this.    Afterall EvE Online and GW2 have practically nothing in common, not more than in example Prototype and Morrowind and yet they are placed in same genre and Prototype and Morrowind are not.

 

Detach 'virtual world rpg games' into separate genre from mmorpg's and then it will be easy to call non 'world'' games an mmorpg without much resistance.

And yet, people like to make a distiction when one small detail changes here and there. For example, in another thread, if it is something is scripted or determined by game engine - even if the end result is exactly the same. Or this one small detail of being instanced, when otherwise the two games play exactly the same.

Rather, don't sweat about genres and definitions. Let them be broad strokes, because they're only useful that way. Sort less, play more.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Aelious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2312

World > Quest Progression

12/09/12 6:52:20 PM#17
Yes, exactly! Thank you OP as this is a good example of the worlds argument. These browser based text games do not have the artificial walls that the "not world" games have and therefore offer a better MMO IMO. Great point :)
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11902

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

12/09/12 6:53:10 PM#18
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

My suggestion is that you decouple MMO from MMORPG. MMORPG has too much baggage and too many preconceptions around here to make for a constructive discussion. Also, I'm assuming you mean 3D world wehn you say "world" correct?

An MMO exists in a virtual worldspace. That virtual worldspace or virtual community can exist in text, 2D or 3D form. Omega Day, Travian and Die2Nite are just as much an MMO, if not more of one, than most of the mainstream 3D MMOs are.

World as in it exists and functions without player input or presence. MMOs do not need that. In Planetarion's case the game is the environment, but there is actually no world in the game. As much as chess has a world - sort of.

And I agree, people attach way too much baggage on the term - each one something different.

But there is a world in Planetarion. The planets, factories and asteroids all exist in a persistent state world even though that world environment is not readily visible.

  Neo_Liberty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/08/06
Posts: 423

12/09/12 6:53:18 PM#19
Originally posted by Quirhi

 

Rather, don't sweat about genres and definitions. Let them be broad strokes, because they're only useful that way. Sort less, play more.

good philosophy

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10419

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/09/12 7:01:19 PM#20


Originally posted by Quirhid
As demonstrated by Planetarion (wikipedia link), Dominion and various other similar games where your planet, kingdom etc. is represented by a webpage(s) of numbers and stats. These games have everything they need to be called an MMO and the ones which have player characters in them (instead of planets or dominions) are fully fledged MMORPGs.

A lack of a world does not unmake an MMORPG and a "true MMORPG" (if you insist such a thing exists) does not need a world nor does it need to be a world simulation.




Doesn't Planetarion have a world though? It's the space out of which you're stealing asteroids and such. You can't see it, but it's there. When you get down to it, the "world" is really just a space shared by players, that they all interact in. It doesn't matter how you represent that space, so long as it exists. Obviously, it works perfectly fine being represented as statistics on a webpage.

** edit **
Loktofeit got there first.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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