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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » SWTOR to get rid of expertise in the near future !!

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37 posts found
  DarkOmega

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 29

12/08/12 11:43:42 PM#21
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by Karteli

From:

...

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
 ...

 

Ordinary stats will affect PvE. The PvP stat is going to be the same no matter which PvP set you've got. Which carrot on the stick will be offered for the PvPers that need rewards for playing? Hopefully then only the "true" PvPers (players that do PvP for the sake of PvP) will participate in PvP and not the equipment farmers.

Except that no "true pvper" plays the meaningless so called pvp that most themepark mmo's have. No consequences, no real reason to fight (ie no territory control, no resources to earn while deny to enemy). PvP in SWTOR is nothing but a minigame which is fine...for a sidebar, a minor distraction from what ever else you were doing.

They really should develop some real meaningful Sith Empire vs Republic pvp. Where being dumb and getting whooped costs you something. Where completely annilating your enemy benefits you and your whole faction.

  User Deleted
12/08/12 11:50:22 PM#22
Originally posted by DarkOmega
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by Karteli

From:

...

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
 ...

 

Ordinary stats will affect PvE. The PvP stat is going to be the same no matter which PvP set you've got. Which carrot on the stick will be offered for the PvPers that need rewards for playing? Hopefully then only the "true" PvPers (players that do PvP for the sake of PvP) will participate in PvP and not the equipment farmers.

Except that no "true pvper" plays the meaningless so called pvp that most themepark mmo's have. No consequences, no real reason to fight (ie no territory control, no resources to earn while deny to enemy). PvP in SWTOR is nothing but a minigame which is fine...for a sidebar, a minor distraction from what ever else you were doing.

They really should develop some real meaningful Sith Empire vs Republic pvp. Where being dumb and getting whooped costs you something. Where completely annilating your enemy benefits you and your whole faction.

 That depends on the meaning of the "true pvper" being used. Here it is that a true pvper is someone that plays the game just for pvp action or for bragging rights, while non-true pvper use it merely for a side activity when pve gets boring. While in your version a true pvper is someone that pvps for real advantages in the game for their side in a open evolving struggle against the opposing fact or group of players. Both are actually correct as both are used to split two differing sides of pvp group players really. Pvp is merely the act of fighting other players regardless of the area or field, and reasons you fight the other player.

  artemisentr4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1437

12/09/12 12:22:44 AM#23
Originally posted by DarkOmega
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by Karteli

From:

...

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
 ...

 

Ordinary stats will affect PvE. The PvP stat is going to be the same no matter which PvP set you've got. Which carrot on the stick will be offered for the PvPers that need rewards for playing? Hopefully then only the "true" PvPers (players that do PvP for the sake of PvP) will participate in PvP and not the equipment farmers.

Except that no "true pvper" plays the meaningless so called pvp that most themepark mmo's have. No consequences, no real reason to fight (ie no territory control, no resources to earn while deny to enemy). PvP in SWTOR is nothing but a minigame which is fine...for a sidebar, a minor distraction from what ever else you were doing.

They really should develop some real meaningful Sith Empire vs Republic pvp. Where being dumb and getting whooped costs you something. Where completely annilating your enemy benefits you and your whole faction.

Don't think it will happen, but it would be nice to see a planet dedicated to that type of PvP.

 

A neutral planet with PvE mobs controlling everything. A base of operations, strongholds, manufacturing plants, areas rich in materials. All to be captured by a faction and defended with benefits as you say. Dreaming of course, but it would be nice to see real faction fighting.

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  User Deleted
12/09/12 12:54:56 AM#24
Honestly i think it would need to be more wise spread for it to work. As  a single world that have capture poiints, and such could be locked down by one group or faction. Now if you spread those out making it that you would need to send a sizable force to several worlds to keep control of them, and so also thin out your ranks compared to sending a trully huge group to a sigle world wouldallow another faction to slip in an take one or more . To me this would also in ways give a more galatic feel to the war/pvp, since it would be so wide spread, and game encompaces really. Like how in a war like that it is spread out over many systems, worlds, and such.
  theoneandonly

Novice Member

Joined: 12/06/12
Posts: 103

Life - the one and only MMO. All the rest will FAIL!!!!

12/09/12 1:26:50 AM#25
Originally posted by artemisentr4
Originally posted by DarkOmega
Originally posted by theAsna
Originally posted by Karteli

From:

...

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
 ...

 

Ordinary stats will affect PvE. The PvP stat is going to be the same no matter which PvP set you've got. Which carrot on the stick will be offered for the PvPers that need rewards for playing? Hopefully then only the "true" PvPers (players that do PvP for the sake of PvP) will participate in PvP and not the equipment farmers.

Except that no "true pvper" plays the meaningless so called pvp that most themepark mmo's have. No consequences, no real reason to fight (ie no territory control, no resources to earn while deny to enemy). PvP in SWTOR is nothing but a minigame which is fine...for a sidebar, a minor distraction from what ever else you were doing.

They really should develop some real meaningful Sith Empire vs Republic pvp. Where being dumb and getting whooped costs you something. Where completely annilating your enemy benefits you and your whole faction.

Don't think it will happen, but it would be nice to see a planet dedicated to that type of PvP.

 

A neutral planet with PvE mobs controlling everything. A base of operations, strongholds, manufacturing plants, areas rich in materials. All to be captured by a faction and defended with benefits as you say. Dreaming of course, but it would be nice to see real faction fighting.

Open world pvp died the moment  they released Legacy system. And theres no hope for Illum. Game became pure pve. So what the point for any dedicated pvper to play swtor?

  Skuz

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1038

"If you can''t laugh at yourself there''s always someone around to show you how it''s done!"

12/09/12 7:09:24 AM#26

The idea behind expertise, for those unable to grasp the concept, is to prevent people walking into pvp in high end pve gear & bushwhacking pvp'ers, & that is why it should stay, if you don't get why then you need to do some cognitive growth.

I think this is a good decision, more "horizontal progression" rather than vertical, would be a good move for a theme-park game, if they can grow some more systems-based gameplay & sandbox elements into the game it will develop into a much more rounded & fulfilling game I think.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2608

110100100

12/09/12 10:59:33 AM#27


Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Karteli

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
 
I don't get it; why do you need the stat at all then?

Couldn't you just remove it altogether? 


the problem with that is then people will be forced to raid in order to pvp.

it would make pvp gear obsolete without that stat.

  SoulStain

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/12
Posts: 204

12/09/12 11:22:02 AM#28
Shouldn't an "expertise" stat be a stat that grows for every player you actually beat in PvP?
  Jonoku

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/08/12
Posts: 663

"Veni Vidi Vici"

12/09/12 11:26:56 AM#29

The question left is, what are they going to do with the cc freezes in pvp? I believe that snares(used to slow people down) is enough of a cc in pvp.

Anyhow good choice on bioware's part.

Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1163

12/09/12 11:27:55 AM#30

I think this is just an attempt to generate some interest / publicity tbh - in a previous life they admitted that they had got PvP wrong (along with craftig etc. - what did they spend all that design effort on?)

Bottomline remains: they have lots of great ideas they would like to implement but can't tell people about .... until the budget has been OK'd.

  User Deleted
12/10/12 6:21:35 AM#31

During Beta:
Players: Please no WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: Gear will only matter like 10%!

Truth: PVP Gear: increases your healing ability by roughly 7%, damage by 7% and reduces damage taken by 7% - on top of stats superiourity. (Which means you perform _at least_ 30% WORSE without the same tier - and even more when going from PVE lvl50 crap to T3 PVP - of which you are thrown agains during instance matching. Adding insult to the injury = PVP GEAR LUCK BOXES YAY! DERP.

Release: See above.


Patch 1.1:
Players: Please no more WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: We heard you like more GEAR FACTOR, WAIT FOR 1.2! IT's going to be awesome!


Patch 1.2:
Players: Please no more WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: A new tier of gear has been added for both PvP and PvE

If clear feedback from the majority of people (see swtors PVP forum) needs over 2 years to reach EAWARE, i'm not sure this is going to be playable before 2015.

  User Deleted
12/10/12 6:19:24 PM#32
Originally posted by skydiver12

During Beta:
Players: Please no WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: Gear will only matter like 10%!

Truth: PVP Gear: increases your healing ability by roughly 7%, damage by 7% and reduces damage taken by 7% - on top of stats superiourity. (Which means you perform _at least_ 30% WORSE without the same tier - and even more when going from PVE lvl50 crap to T3 PVP - of which you are thrown agains during instance matching. Adding insult to the injury = PVP GEAR LUCK BOXES YAY! DERP.

 

Release: See above.


Patch 1.1:
Players: Please no more WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: We heard you like more GEAR FACTOR, WAIT FOR 1.2! IT's going to be awesome!


Patch 1.2:
Players: Please no more WoW like gear threatmill factoring BG PVP playability!
DEVS: A new tier of gear has been added for both PvP and PvE

 

If clear feedback from the majority of people (see swtors PVP forum) needs over 2 years to reach EAWARE, i'm not sure this is going to be playable before 2015.

Theres still around 30% stat difference between War Hero and Recruit gear, so noobs will still be melted down until they grind their War Hero set. At least expertise wont be added to that and it will be faster but still.

And thats all "In the future", no date set when it will be removed from equasion.

And already fanbois on official forums started whining that difference between War Hero and Elite War Hero is too small and demand Elite War Hero stat buff rofl.

How much can you suck to demand bigger and bigger advantage over other players lol

  User Deleted
12/10/12 6:21:24 PM#33
Originally posted by Karteli

From:

 

SWTOR plans to tweak endgame PvP balance

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/12/08/swtor-will-change-endgame-pvp-balance/

In an interview with fansite TORWars released last night, Senior Designer Rob Hinkle explained that one of the ways BioWare will attempt to make endgame PvP more fun in Star Wars: The Old Republic is by making the PvP stat (Expertise) equal across all sets of PvP armor.


Like many other MMOs with a focus on PvP, SWTOR has struggled with balancing the endgame PvP progression. Hinkle said in the interview that he frequently hears from players that they love level 10 to 49 PvP but are disappointed by their performance when they first log into endgame PvP. Hinkle described how the development team aims to make endgame PvP better by changing how Expertise will work in the "relatively" near future:

"Instead of Expertise being a stat that you're chasing as you're getting better and better PvP gear, all the PvP gear no matter what tier it is will have the same Expertise level. It's just the normal stats that will be getting better as you getting higher in PvP gear."
Although this change will not be fully implemented until after Update 1.6, Massively's latest Hyperspace Beacon has already scoped it out for your edification.

 

1.6 has been set for December 11th.  So.. could this mean that EA is drifting from it's WoW model with SWTOR?  Perhaps there might be hope for that game still?  holy cow.

 

/pinch-self

 

 

Holy crap. I didn't think they'd ever see the light.

  Tamanous

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1632

12/10/12 7:32:34 PM#34

Now if only they would add a stock pvp class where everyone is only allowed to wear recruit gear so EVERYONE IS THE SAME!

 

It boggles the mind that there is pretty no place in any mmo where you can just pvp on EQUAL footing. Stock class is in nearly any equipment based sport in the world or standards are in place so technology doesn't outstrip skill ... yet mmo's fail on this each and every time.

 

You want to prove your skill? Then have the balls to fight with equal gear as everyone around you. I see very few demonstrating the testicular fortitude to handle that. There are so many rewards that could be put in placed that has nothing to do with gear escalation.

 

If a stock class was put in game I would pretty much play it every day. I grew up in sports and it is about fairness and proving personal skill ... not how expensive and high tech my gear is. It would be pretty much telling one hockey team to wear equipment from the 60's against modern equipment. Equal skill would get SQUASHED!

 

I love how this won't happen until after 1.6. God knows how hard it would take to change numbers on gear. Perhaps their 200 man team is too busy taking over a year figuring out how to make characters sit in chairs.

You stay sassy!

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

12/10/12 9:28:16 PM#35
Originally posted by Tamanous

Now if only they would add a stock pvp class where everyone is only allowed to wear recruit gear so EVERYONE IS THE SAME!

 

It boggles the mind that there is pretty no place in any mmo where you can just pvp on EQUAL footing. Stock class is in nearly any equipment based sport in the world or standards are in place so technology doesn't outstrip skill ... yet mmo's fail on this each and every time.

 

You want to prove your skill? Then have the balls to fight with equal gear as everyone around you. I see very few demonstrating the testicular fortitude to handle that. There are so many rewards that could be put in placed that has nothing to do with gear escalation.

 

If a stock class was put in game I would pretty much play it every day. I grew up in sports and it is about fairness and proving personal skill ... not how expensive and high tech my gear is. It would be pretty much telling one hockey team to wear equipment from the 60's against modern equipment. Equal skill would get SQUASHED!

 

I love how this won't happen until after 1.6. God knows how hard it would take to change numbers on gear. Perhaps their 200 man team is too busy taking over a year figuring out how to make characters sit in chairs.

 Let's have WZ with a few rules and restrictions like:

  • Same gear  (stats wise) for everyone
  • Limited slots for specific roles
  • Provide VoIP for PUGS

 

Usually you don't see people on bicycle running again others with motorcycle, nor 10 goalies in a team and none in the other.

 

Then it will start being interesting

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

 
OP  12/10/12 9:58:32 PM#36
Originally posted by Deewe
Originally posted by Tamanous

Now if only they would add a stock pvp class where everyone is only allowed to wear recruit gear so EVERYONE IS THE SAME!

 

It boggles the mind that there is pretty no place in any mmo where you can just pvp on EQUAL footing. Stock class is in nearly any equipment based sport in the world or standards are in place so technology doesn't outstrip skill ... yet mmo's fail on this each and every time.

 

You want to prove your skill? Then have the balls to fight with equal gear as everyone around you. I see very few demonstrating the testicular fortitude to handle that. There are so many rewards that could be put in placed that has nothing to do with gear escalation.

 

If a stock class was put in game I would pretty much play it every day. I grew up in sports and it is about fairness and proving personal skill ... not how expensive and high tech my gear is. It would be pretty much telling one hockey team to wear equipment from the 60's against modern equipment. Equal skill would get SQUASHED!

 

I love how this won't happen until after 1.6. God knows how hard it would take to change numbers on gear. Perhaps their 200 man team is too busy taking over a year figuring out how to make characters sit in chairs.

 Let's have WZ with a few rules and restrictions like:

  • Same gear  (stats wise) for everyone
  • Limited slots for specific roles
  • Provide VoIP for PUGS

 

Usually you don't see people on bicycle running again others with motorcycle, nor 10 goalies in a team and none in the other.

 

Then it will start being interesting

Those would be excellent mechanics for EA to think outside the box, and further distinguish themselves from every other WoW clone on the market.  Your second suggestion is particularity interesting, to me, as this will help prevent large imbalances with the number of healers, for instance, or even premades who go with multiple FotM'ish classes.  If the group finder has a set composition for Flashpoints, would it be logical for Warzones to do this also?  Ranked would not have such limitations.

 

CC's are really a bit of an issue as well, but maybe class limits per WZ would minimize these imbalances.  Although, I am sorta thinking that making CC's less common would make fights much less annoying.

 

I feel that allowing premades to go up against pugs was a major blunder by EA.  Premades defended their ability to stomp all over pugs, and pugs just stopped queueing.  Everyone lost on that one, and EA ended up with unhappy customers.  It would take some time to heal all the damage done to the fun factor of WZ's for pugs as a result of premades.  BUT .... I kind of doubt EA will do much with this issue, since people have been complaining all the way back to launch, and EA's response months ago was to let ranked groups queue up against normal pugs and stomp them while they wait for another ranked team to show up.  Lulz.  Again, pugs stop queueing, and the ranked group never got a decent challenge.  Not very fun.

 

Who knows though, if they can remove expertise, then maybe they are getting their heads out of the hand.  Some of us are watching, EA .. :P

 

.. just some various thoughts on posts floating around here..

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12/11/12 11:50:18 AM#37
Good . Expertise was a dumb idea to begin with. 

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